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Author	Topic: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
foxbatkllr Title: SDFF VIP Registered: Jul '01	Date Posted: 12/28/02 12:58am Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	the sad truth is, beyond boards like this, the PT doesnt "breed" anything so much as INDIFFERENCE. PPOR!! No seriously, where do you get info like this? Where is the evidence? -----signature----- Final Ranking: ROTS, ESB, AOTC, ANH, TPM, ROTJ
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JohnWilliams00 Registered: Jan '02	Date Posted: 12/28/02 1:00am Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	Yeah, it should be more like "conflict breeds good art." Like the movie that destroyed the George Lucas Star Wars baby: The Empire Strikes Back. Good one. Why does George keep dragging Star Wars down and relating everything to junk-food cinema? I don't care if he keeps the whimsical spirit of serials intact, but why "imitate" the godawful dialogue and acting of those movies? I guess notorious directors like Michael Bay and Joel Schumacher and Ed Wood are off the hook too then. They could just use the same excuse as George Lucas if they felt like it. Imagine if AOTC and TPM were made with the creative team that made ESB. Do you think they would be better than what we have today? I sure think they would be a HELLAVU lot better. That lifeless acting I see in AOTC aren't feigned homages to the serial days, it's just bored, confused acting after spending 5 hours in make-up/costume, and blue-screen. Besides, like Natalie has seen a serial in her life. She didn t even watch the OT before she made TPM. And she admitted her acting was weak. Ewan McGregor admitted TPM was a little dry. But nooo, people lump them all as the same thing and accuse people of losing their innocence or wearing crappy rose-colored shades. -----signature----- Best Makeup Winner: Revenge of the Sith keeps fingers crossed
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DrEvazan Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 12/28/02 2:44am Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	more excuses for the inexcusable mistakes and overall shoddiness of the PT. "its not bad acting and dialogue, its stylized" since when is bad grammar and lifeless performances "stylized"? this aint bergman kids. "its complex and deeply literate" no, its convoluted and uninspired, cliched. -----signature----- no original OT on DVD? Boycott Episode III!
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hoth-nudist Registered: Dec '00	Date Posted: 12/28/02 2:44am Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	Great topic Grizham1, Im glad this has been brought up. I dont think the OT was very serial-like. The acting had passion for one. GL had collaboration with the like of gary kurts and lawrence kasden and many other talented, creative minds that helped give us great cliffhangars and fresh ideas. 1930's serials have wooden acting and GL has admitted this. The PT doesnt have any fresh ideas (except the digital fx, which is merely an advertisement to other filmakers for future $$$ for ILM). He made the PT in this 30's serial style BECAUSE he can, due to being enormously wealthy and independent of other more talented minds that arent 'yes' men. GL has stated that he made these films for HIMSELF...because of that. I heartily agree with you Grizham, dude its too made GL had to experiment on the PT with this so-called 30's style. There's a reason it went out of style.....lamo! -----signature----- Lucas: "You want to become a TRUE fan of Star Wars? You do!? Great, will that be cash, check or charge?"
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DamonD Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 12/28/02 2:54am Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	But nooo, people lump them all as the same thing and accuse people of losing their innocence or wearing crappy rose-colored shades. Oh, PLEASE don't try to convince me that I'm an idiot because I love the PT as much as the OT. That's never going to be a convincing arguement. Who are you to question my judgement? To suggest that just because a view isn't your own, it must therefore be incorrect? I've sorry you've lost the reason you enjoyed Star Wars in the first place. From the very start, I KNEW what Star Wars was about. I've understood how they work, and how I feel about them. I haven't enclosed them in a little nostalgic case and let the years layer my opinion. So when TPM and AOTC, I was ready for them, with how the OT IS rather than how it WAS fresh in my mind. Stop insulting the intelligence of every fan on this board with remarks like that. -----signature----- I love all 6 Star Wars films. Live with it. Member of FIGS, the Fantastic Ian (McDiarmid) Gushers Society.
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Lars_Muul Registered: Oct '00	Date Posted: 12/28/02 2:55am Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	George Lucas is doing Star Wars for himself, not us. We´re just lucky to be able to see it. GL loved those Saturday matinee serials as a kid, that´s why he makes SW the way he does.
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aguywithabiggun Registered: Mar '99	Date Posted: 12/28/02 3:09am Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	//slaps Grizham1 good god man! come to your senses! what the hell do you want, huh? i see what you mean, but it in NO WAY has anything to do with what the core of star wars is about! so why waste all your energy bashing something you cant change? the OT is serial moviemaking, so why the bitterness? you're entitled to your opinion, no doubt, but really, its just so silly -----signature----- I kill baby kittens VI VI VI You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill, I will choose the path thats clear, I will choose free will
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Darth_Howell_III Registered: Sep '02	Date Posted: 12/28/02 7:17am Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	In all candor, though, Griz - Rock singers gushing, "Bama lama Ding DONG!!" and "Be-Bop-A-Lula" died out a long time ago, too... But these musical themes are still revisited... and part of the reason why they are enjoyed is the built-in twinge of nostalgia for the "naive-old days." I don't actually have to have been alive in 1957 to understand the feeling. It's obviously OK for George to evoke genre-based fun and nostalgia. HOWEVER, I strongly agree that George's quality control standards have plummeted since ROTJ. Today, he is MUCH less likely to say, "Let's try it again, same thing, only better." He is more likely to tell himself, "I'm pretty sure I can make this OK with a paste-job in the editing room." CUT! WRAP! -Howell_III -----signature----- "...But it's left unsaid... It's left up to the audience to decide." - G. LUCAS
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JenX Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 12/28/02 7:23am Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	"But nooo, people lump them all as the same thing and accuse people of losing their innocence or wearing crappy rose-colored shades." I've sorry you've lost the reason you enjoyed Star Wars in the first place. From the very start, I KNEW what Star Wars was about. I've understood how they work, and how I feel about them. I haven't enclosed them in a little nostalgic case and let the years layer my opinion. Wow, DamonD, I can really see why you felt JohnWilliams00 insulted your intelligence. He said that people like blame nostalgia for the criticism levelled at the PT by some people, and you respond by...blaming nostalgia for the criticism being levelled at the PT!! Once again, I think it is perfectly possible to know what the PT is about, understand what the PT is about, understand what GL was trying to achieve with the PT and STILL think that it is awful. Which I do. On topic, I don't think serial movie making is inherently bad. It might well have died out because writers/directors weren't skilled enough to use the format properly, but with the success of recent cinematic sagas I can see them coming back in a big way. -----signature----- Anakin and Padme sitting in a tree, C-H-O-K-I-N-G "I am altering the OT, pray I do not alter it any further" My inner child thinks the prequels suck.
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Jack-D-Ripper Registered: Dec '02	Date Posted: 12/28/02 7:46am Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	HOWEVER, I strongly agree that George's quality control standards have plummeted since ROTJ. Today, he is MUCH less likely to say, "Let's try it again, same thing, only better." He is more likely to tell himself, "I'm pretty sure I can make this OK with a paste-job in the editing room." CUT! WRAP! -Howell_III I don't think this is the case at all. For starters, look at how much more detailed the PT is than the OT. Sure, the technology is better, but hell, the more you can do, the higher the quality needs to be. And the fact that GL often spilts scenes apart to find the best takes is no different to what has ALWAYS been done in films. When you have a conversation scene, and only one character at a time is visible, they choose different takes of each actor and assemble the performances using editing. GL is just taking it a logical step further, if there are two characters having a conversation and both are visible in the shot. It saves time and money, reducing the need for pickups or re-shoots that introduce all kinds of potential continuity problems. The technical level of the quality-control GL excercises has doubled since the PT. And his directing skills are pretty much the same as they have always been. -JDR. -----signature----- I am getting rather sick of being told constantly that the SW prequels suck.
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Durwood Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 12/28/02 8:04am Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	so youre saying that it would be impossible for you to be dissatisfied with the PT movies as long as Lucas was/is telling "his story"? what if "his story" included the revelation that Jar Jar is actually Anakin's biological father? would that make you happy? what about non-narrative aspects of the movie? what if Lucas told "his story", but used sock puppets instead of CGI? would that be okay? Someone once asked me, "What would Lucas have to do in order for you to be dissatisifed with Star Wars?" to which I replied, "I'll be sure to let you know once he actually does it." In other words, let's talk about what he has actually done. And I'm of the opinion that the differences between the movies are minimal. The reason they seem so different to some is because they're making mountains out of molehills. -----signature----- "[STAR WARS fans] all have very strong ideas about what should happen, and they think it should be their way. Which is fine, except I'm making the movies, so I should have it my way." -George Lucas
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UK Sullustian Registered: Nov '98	Date Posted: 12/28/02 8:06am Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	" I though Leigh Brackett and Lawerence Kasadan were the one's that got credit for writing the script, not Lucas." This was said right at the start, and I will quickly correct this: Leigh Brackett's script was not used in any form at all. Nothing. This has been stated by GL and Kasdan many times. The reason Brackett has a credit in the end titles, was a nice touch by GL as she was dying (and died) of cancer at the time. It was a little piece of honouring her memory and work. Since the Star Wars titles (and films) at this time did not conform to the Relevant standards set by the relevant US film commitees, it did not need to conform to the screenwriters rules for credits, (Which I think is something like 30% new material gets you a credit.) The script was an initial and "first" draft by GL and the rewrites by Kasdan. Having said that, Kasdan was, and still is, a great screenwriter, and not having him involved in the prequels is a shame. UKS -----signature----- http://www1.theforce.net/forum/Forum8/HTML/000974-2.html I am better than you - My reg date PROVES IT.
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MachinatingMachiavel Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 12/28/02 8:10am Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	Well having studied art you would know that art doesn't HAVE to breed conflict to be good. Obviously there's no conflict in Rembrandt's etchings (I think that's right), or in Krieghoff's Romantic landscapes, but if there IS conflict, then it certainly means the piece relates to the people on a societal level and touches on some sensitive emotion. I'm not discluding art without conflict from under the category of "good" but merely saying that conflict is an element in a lot of good art, to be more precise. This argument is entirley off the track of this thread. -----signature----- "There is no stability...only politics. The Republic is not what it once was The senate is full of greedy squabbling delegates. There is no interest in the common good." F.I.G.S
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Durwood Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 12/28/02 8:11am Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	Today, [Lucas] is MUCH less likely to say, "Let's try it again, same thing, only better." He is more likely to tell himself, "I'm pretty sure I can make this OK with a paste-job in the editing room." Proof? -----signature----- "[STAR WARS fans] all have very strong ideas about what should happen, and they think it should be their way. Which is fine, except I'm making the movies, so I should have it my way." -George Lucas
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MachinatingMachiavel Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 12/28/02 8:12am Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	If the PT only bred indifference then why is this board filled with threads of people arguing different ways for the Pt -----signature----- "There is no stability...only politics. The Republic is not what it once was The senate is full of greedy squabbling delegates. There is no interest in the common good." F.I.G.S
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