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Author	Topic: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
Ulicus Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 6/27 2:32pm Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	Is the anzati male Billy Zane? -----signature----- This is an imaginary story... aren't they all supposed to fit together, though? An animated cartoon about Obi-Wan and Padawan Anakin would have made more sense. Recipient of Golden Ewok™ and Golden EwokTrooper™
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Kicker Registered: Mar '07	Date Posted: 6/27 3:20pm Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	CurlyWookie posted: Having a lightsaber doesn't mean much. Bounty hunters with lightsabers is becoming overdone. Having one almost gives a bounty hunter street cred anymore. If you're not a Jedi killer, then you're nothing. Had an anzati thought. If a regular anzati drinks the soup of a Jedi, will he/she, pardon the pun, become "souped up?" Would they get a Force-rush and be able to use the Force for a short time? They'd lack training of course. An anzati dark-sider like Volfe Karkko could increase his powers that way. I don't think this is what happens, but something like this hasn't been seen in SW yet to my knowledge. Maybe one of the anzati will drink Morrigan's soup, look up at Cade and say, "Heal that!" well excuse me, but all of that is irrelevant to what I was aiming at, perhaps the anzati drinks a portion of "soup", then uses the force to create the illusion of luke skywalker? idk if the anzati absorb memories with the soup, but who knows? I was just merely pointing out a possible plot point, not sum fan boy driven theory.. he's most likely an ex-Jedi tho, 5 creds to that thought, any takers?
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Excellence Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 6/27 10:03pm Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	Starbuck and Cade, eh? Possibilities. -----signature----- Rock-a-by baby, on the treetop, Beaming with pride, the filth they hold, But when the wind blows, my temper implodes, High above a pit, filled with sharkticons, Down will come hardcover addicts, beaming no more. ©
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Magnuskn Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 6/28 3:52am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4) - Date Edited: 6/28 4:01am (2 edits total) Edited By: Magnuskn
	Zorrixor posted: Yeah...I know what you're saying. That's why I'm really eager for something big to happen. I'd really hoped Krayt's death was going to be that... but so far it's just been "business as usual". Sure, eventually it will get discovered, but right now we just seem to be in limbo waiting for that discovery to happen. This is why I want Wyyrlok to start being, well, Wyyrlok and not just Krayt Jr. He can keep up the pretence Krayt is dead and still be his own man and behave appreciably different. Converting the Imperial fleet into the Sith fleet I feel would do that. So far though it just doesn't feel as if Krayt's death has really meant much. The "Mother in danger!" story I feel would smack the much needed sense into Cade. It's not that I don't feel Cade works as a character; I just don't really see where this can go. Like him or loathe him, he is the hero of this story, and there is no other. If this was KOTOR, then a character like Cade would be fine--we don't expect Zayne to be the hero of the Mandalorian Wars; that story has already been told, if Zayne does turn out to be Nihilus or something equally tragic it doesn't actually matter. But with Legacy, this is all new, so Cade has to be the one who eventually defeats the bad guys to one day conclude the series. Or, if not Cade, then someone else, but I can't say after nearly 40 issues I'd really want to have to establish a whole new character all over again--and I'd be worried about the sales figures justifying it either, which would put the story at risk of never being concluded, or ending up rushed. This is why I really want there to be something big happen in his life, which I think the threat of losing his second parent would be. And if what happened was Nyna was put in danger, and Gunner called Cade up to help her save her mum, and Cade did that... only to come face to face with his mother, Morrigan, then we could have quite an interesting sequence of events coming up. The reader would easily enough see them all coming, but there are so many possible ways for character development rather than simply Cade running around to do some more complaining. For now though I just think Krayt's death needs to have achieved something we don't see coming. Wyyrlok just crowning himself Emperor isn't something we don't see coming and for me would just be a "meh" moment, since it could easily have just taken place off screen and not been a big deal. What I want to see is a "New Order" of the total Sith extremist brushing aside the more moderate half-Jedi/half-Sith regime of Krayt. All of which can then play into the whole born Sith/recruited Sith stigmatisation, as well as the neurotic loyalty of Talon. I'm sure all of that will happen and I'm not going to stop buying it... I just am feeling with Legacy the same thing I felt after Haazen was defeated until the last couple of months with KOTOR. These last six months for both series have been kind of slow, Rebellion has been axed, Dark Times has only just restarted, Invasion isn't quite out... It's kind of depressing that lately I've been looking forward to the really cruddy TOR comic the most... I suppose what I'm saying is I'd rather we hadn't been hit with a slowdown in every series all at once. I think that's my biggest gripe currently. There's been too many times recently when nothing special has happened in either of the main series in a given month. The only series that seem to have done much lately are the Clone Wars ones and... eugh. Had Krayt and Haazen not both been axed at roughly the same time, I expect a lot of the slowdown sentiment would be a lot less pronounced. Maybe John can genocide another mayor species soon, so that you´ll feel sufficiently titillated. For my side, I´d prefer him to tie up loose ends logically and tell a good story, rather than throwing in lots of shock effects. I understand that you probably were expecting a tectonic shift in the power structure after Krayts death, but in a realistic setting the powerful people tend to wait until they have actual information before making the big decisions. See Iran and how Obama is reacting to that for a good example. Wyyrlok is sitting on an ejection seat as it is. There is some discontent in the Sith Order already, and now he has to fortify his position before making any big decisions. He doesn´t strike me as the kind of person who does something impulsive and simply hopes that the other Sith Lords will follow him. I, for my part, was shocked enough how Cade threw away all the good-will I had worked up for him through his incredibly selfish actions in the Storms arc. And Deliah and Jariah also didn´t exactly shine with their further enabling of his personality disorder. Azlyns fate was really depressing and looking forward, I don´t see anything good coming out of it. It had to sink in a bit, but at this point Cade absolutely needs to step up to his destiny, or we need to focus on the supporting cast more than on him. He is becoming a liability to the series, as he is sinking more and more from "cool anti-hero" to "emo almost-villain". I understand the difficulties of a monthly publication, there is only so much story which can be told in one issue, and then it simply is one month until the next issue. But a mayor stretch where the main hero of the book is sliding into "complete arse-hat" territory is much more of a problem for me than a mayor stretch where the story progresses logically ( and entertainingly ) but without big shock effects. We have enough supporting cast in need of more screen-time, let´s do something for them. And please let Cade finally move forward, at this point he has to work up to do something with his life. You can only run away so far before you hit a wall. -----signature----- Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet Serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet the Force.
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Tzizvvt78 Registered: Jun '09	Date Posted: 6/28 4:44am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	I assume Wyyrlok would simply use a man like Veed as a puppet ruler, if that's where this is going, while conducting atrocities and using him as an excuse: "These things are harsh, but the military is under his control, and we poor Sith need your support to calm things down. Won't you join?"
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Zorrixor Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 6/28 5:03am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4) - Date Edited: 6/28 5:30am (7 edits total) Edited By: Zorrixor
	Magnuskn posted: Maybe John can genocide another mayor species soon, so that you´ll feel sufficiently titillated. Not really. Killing another species would be an unnecessary rehashing of an arc already told and wouldn't do anything to advance the main narrative. It's not shock effects I'm after, it's the main story--and the main story, as I've said, is about Cade, since he is ultimately the hero. For the last few months, the main story seems to have been put on hiatus. Krayt's death was a shock event in that it was "OMG!" but then led nowhere. It's going to lead somewhere, obviously, but at the moment it's starting to feel a bit like Mara's death in that it was a big shock event that hasn't bothered to collect until it's already yesterday's news... which I shall return to in a minute. Now, I don't want to see a return to the "one day wars" of TotJ, but I do feel that we seem to have gone completely the other way lately with things being a bit too lethargic (and this is not just Legacy, but most of the other series as well). You (and others) said this yourself: you're getting fed up with Cade. Now, as I said previously, I don't actually have a problem with Cade, per se... but I do in relation to this story. All this "angst" stuff isn't advancing the main narrative (unless the main narrative is Cade will end up the bad guy), which makes repeatedly telling us "Cade is a jerk" in multiple issues the equivalent of having a second genocide arc: we get it, Cade's a jerk, fade to black, next scene please. The irony is unlike most people I actually don't inherently mind this, as if nothing else it's doing it's job: I, the reader, don't need to be told something ten times to get the point, so the Cade story is successfully making the reader as sick of being told something multiple times as Cade himself. It is the general growing apathy, however, which worries me. It's all fine and dandy telling a good story... if you get to tell it. If you drag things out too long though, and people start to stop buying the issues (as increasingly more people seem to be talking about) because they're sick of Cade, what then? You go the way of Rebellion and end up with an unfinished story. I do not want to see that happen, but the last few months people seem to increasingly be complaining about Cade and saying they don't know if they want to continue following the story. The way Legacy is I cannot see them just axing it and leaving the entire Star Wars saga hanging, but I can see things ending up cut short if all this anti-Cade sentiment ends up negatively affecting sales. That is why I feel things need to be shaken up. Broken was so popular because a lot happened. It was a detailed, intense, six issue arc. Now, there are usually lulls as we go see the side stories, it happened between Broken and Claws of the Dragon; it then happened between Claws of the Dragon and Vector; naturally, it now has happened again between Vector and... whatever is next. But that "next" I feel needs to hurry up, as the lull this time seems to be going on longer than previously, and is clearly affecting sentiment as the regular statements about Cade seemingly every month demonstrate. Which brings me back to my original point in my previous post: we just seem to be waiting for the payoff from Krayt's death for the main story to move into the next chapter. In previous arcs the side stories haven't been that big a deal as the main story hasn't been left hanging. Both Broken and Claws of the Dragon didn't really have cliffhangers, they were largely self-contained, which allowed the subsequent "wider galaxy" stories to slot in seamlessly. The trouble I feel with Vector is it was such a massive cliffhanger that we've been left waiting for the fallout, which I feel is what is contributing to the general animosity towards Cade, because people are complaining that Cade is going nowhere... which, ironically, I actually feel is completely understandable: until the next big thing happens, he can't go anywhere, as it strongly seems the case (to me at least) that his life needs that next big thing to shake it up. He's stuck in naive "Krayt's dead! I can live however I want!" mode currently. Until we get back the the main story and the kid gets the stuffing kicked out of him, I just don't think any of these other Cade side events will appease the complaints about him. You actually summed up my concerns rather well when you said you think if Cade doesn't go anywhere we should start focusing more on other characters instead. It's irony really, as didn't John say that Stazi was only meant to be a one-shot guy, and that he only returned because of the overwhelmingly positive reaction? It's perhaps telling that what was only meant to be a side character has turned into one of the principle heroes. I can't say I can blame anyone on the Legacy team though. I do feel that things possibly had to be rushed into killing Krayt sooner than planned. Vector was clearly not even on the radar when Legacy was first drafted, so presumably Krayt's death had to get changed around a bit. I imagine had we not had Vector we may have seen some of the current side stories earlier, but because of Vector we are now playing catch up to cover all the other stories John wanted to tell before we hit the next major chapter in the main story. Thus the sudden bombardment of emo-Cade angst issues. You're perfectly right in that Wyyrlok shouldn't need to do something extreme, and that the Sith storyline is perfectly fine as is. But then who will? Cade clearly hasn't been going anywhere, as you said yourself. Fel and Stazi still are just side story filler characters at the moment. Marasiah has fallen off the radar completely. The Jedi remain closeted. That's why my hopes rest in Wyyrlok. The solicitations on the new Emperor's appointment are vague, the Sith side of things has been left largely off screen and unstated so far, aside from the brief scene with Stryfe on Korriban. That tells me that when we finally catch back up with the Sith that's when we're going to see things happen. Which is why I feel that Cade learning that (i) he has just gone and given the galaxy an even worse Emperor than Krayt, and (ii) in turn has placed his mother in danger, will force him to wake up and accept facts: he's just gone and screwed things up even more than they were before, and that this time it is his duty to set things right. The Jedi Council told him not to get rid of Krayt. When the dust finally settles, the consequences of the fallout are going to fall solely on his shoulders. Hence why I feel we need to hurry up and get there, because I am growing concerned with how many people are complaining about Cade's inaction. Until that dust settles though, and Wyyrlok stops playing "business as usual", I don't see reality smacking Cade in the face like so many seem to be clamouring for month after month. In the end, the consequences of Krayt's death can be summed up in what Wyyrlok himself already told us: Darth Wyyrlok in Legacy #34 posted: We must go to Coruscant. Once the throne is secure, we implement the next stage of Lord Krayt's plan for peace in a galaxy united. Every being in the galaxy will become part of the Sith Order. One Galaxy. One Sith. And then there will be peace. That is the bombshell that is going to result from Krayt's demise. It's all just a case of how long before we get there. It's going to be hard for even the Jedi Council to run and hide when the entire galaxy are [being] turned into Sith.
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Magnuskn Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 6/28 5:30am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	You are making some good points. I guess my main gripe with your previous post was that for me you seemed to want some "Big Booms!" event to happen, just to shake up the story. My main gripe was actually related to what you were saying, only that I chose a different aspect to complain about. You are saying that Cade being so selfish is necessary until the next big thing happens. I am saying that him staying at this low point ( both for his morals and his morale ) is being a problem. It probably is contributing directly to some people being a bit tired with the series, because, seriously, who wants to read about a self-pitying amoral slacker in a Star Wars comic? As the main character? My point of disagreement is that there is no big event needed to get Cade into a better place. Gunner and Morrigan coming to Tatooine isn´t going to make the galaxy explode, but if John and Jan play it right, it should give Cade the right incentives to clean up his act. Further driving him into emo mode would be very bad for the book, that is for sure. -----signature----- Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet Serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet the Force.
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Tzizvvt78 Registered: Jun '09	Date Posted: 6/28 5:32am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	I've actually liked this issue partly because of Cade, who seems to be on a collision course with himself. He's played the hero at times, without really seeming to bother following up on it. But now, with the previews, this arc might actually make him do something about it. I liked the issue more than any other with Cade as the focal point, because he truely seems to be changing. And this is coming from someone who hasn't been all that interested in his arc so far.
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Trip Registered: Dec '03	Date Posted: 6/28 5:38am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	Zorrixor posted: While I'd love that to involve tattooing the galaxy up... I concede that the main reason I'm a little iffy is I don't know how that'd work when Legacy is finished. The entire population of Coruscant saved from the Sith Empire... but still forever forced to spend the rest of their lives covered in red paint and Sith tattoos? For that reason, it may be a less in your face conversion process to avoid the rather silly post-Legacy "red galaxy"... though presumably Wyyrlok will start with the military and the politicians (i.e. Moffs etc) first, so that'd give room for him to be defeated before he got around to totally indoctrinating entire planetary populations. The red skin and tattoos seems to be exclusive to the Sith 'warrior class' (i.e., the Darths) since neither Vul Isen nor Jor Torlin had a single tattoo, let alone red skin. -----signature----- RIP Jacen's Crotch 1991 - 2008
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Magnuskn Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 6/28 5:41am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	Well, in this issue no changes happen. He and the rest of the crew are actually avoiding to deal with the Very Bad Things that happened in Storms. After re-reading the issue, that scene with Jariah "coming on" to Deliah and her "teasing" him back seemed so half-hearted... for me it clearly managed to convey that they are absolutely not serious about it and only try to take their minds of Cades deteriorating mental condition with some light banter. -----signature----- Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet Serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet the Force.
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Ulicus Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 6/28 8:28am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	This was the first issue in ages in which Cade wasn't particularly annoying. -----signature----- This is an imaginary story... aren't they all supposed to fit together, though? An animated cartoon about Obi-Wan and Padawan Anakin would have made more sense. Recipient of Golden Ewok™ and Golden EwokTrooper™
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FireJade Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 6/28 11:39am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	I guess the implications about Cade possibly "using" again pretty much imply that the Luke in Legacy #39 is a hallucination, especially considering the lack of a blue aura. But they did say "Force ghost" -- Luke hallucination + FG of someone else? -----signature----- Luke: Still, I think I make a pretty good Luke Skywalker. Mara: Of course you do. Luke: So before you began impersonating Mara, what was your real hair color? Mara: Farmboy, you're asking for a beating... --- LotF: Betrayal by Aaron Allston (2006), p. 228
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CurlyWookie Registered: Feb '09	Date Posted: 6/28 1:19pm Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	Kicker posted: well excuse me, but all of that is irrelevant to what I was aiming at, perhaps the anzati drinks a portion of "soup", then uses the force to create the illusion of luke skywalker? idk if the anzati absorb memories with the soup, but who knows? I was just merely pointing out a possible plot point, not sum fan boy driven theory.. he's most likely an ex-Jedi tho, 5 creds to that thought, any takers? I already gave my opinion on the subject and you replied with a bunch of attitude, so anyone else with a differing opinion than yours is probably afraid to post. My soup idea had nothing to do with the bounty hunter either. If you want to discuss your "fan-boy theory" that the bounty hunter is an ex-Jedi, you need to be more open-minded to differing opinions. I'm sorry if you didn't get what you wanted, but attacking me isn't going to get you what you want either.
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Darth-Ghost Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 6/28 1:35pm Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	I don't think Cade is doing deathsticks again, they just see him more depressed, because I think even Cade seems to be getting sick of himself. You can see it on his face when he betrays the Imperials he just saed, who were about to reward him and thank him as a Jedi savior. He's probaly had months to reflect on the events of VECTOR and STORMS now too. I did not find Cade irritatign at all in this issue. Really, it was only in STORMS when I was actually mad at his character.
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Jan_Duursema Title: Comic Artist: -AOT C -Legacy -Republic Registered: May '01	Date Posted: 6/28 1:58pm Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	Doubt Cade would have any regret at all about mind-tricking the Imperials. They serve the Sith; they deserve what they get. Stealing from Black Sun? Good. Stealing from Black Sun and the Sith Empire at the same time...priceless.
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