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Author	Topic: Alien languages
Mr_Black Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 6/23/04 7:55pm Subject: Alien languages - Date Edited: 5/6/07 3:29pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Healer_Leona
	Is there any rhyme or reason used in the construction of the varying terrestrial tongues we hear/read in the saga? It seems to me that the many languages are just arbitrary products of sound design: Pitching something up or down, looping, dubbing, re-dubbing, playing back to front, etc. I haven't scrutinized the alien-speak of SW too closely, but I know a thing or two about languages, and I can't place a grammatical structure or an engineered diction among any of them. So, at this point, I'm presuming it's all gobbildy-gook. Something like this could alternately make writing alien dialog either extremely difficult & complex, or extremely easy & simple. If you can prove me wrong, please do. I'd welcome it . ------------- Just as an anecdote: My favorite section of alien speak in either trilogy is when Han & Jabba are negotiating. Jabba's Booming, declarative, brook-no-argument tone of voice offers a copiously comedic juxtaposition to his actual dialog. I liken it to the voice of God delving into baby-speak. And the Lord Said: "Ra-ba choo-ga noo-goo" and it was good. Unlocked by request. Leona -----signature----- "You can't seriously want to outlaw beer! It tastes great, makes women appear more attractive, and makes a person virtually invulnerable to criticism." --Mayor "Diamond" Joe Quimby
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Xaara Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 6/23/04 8:51pm Subject: RE: Alien languages
	To my knowledge, there hasn't been a great deal published about the origins of languages found in Star Wars. However, I have found two short passages, one at The Sound Design of Star Wars, and the other at Languages in Star Wars that indicate that some languages are based on those spoken by small groups of humans. Quite a few SW languages are based at least as much upon inflection as they are on actual vocabulary. The Wookiee language, for example, is seldom translated; more often, an author will write, "Chewie grumbled menacingly," "The Wookiee yelped in annoyance," or "Shaking her head, the Wookiee told him in no uncertain terms that he was to stop making bad jokes." Huttese, on the other hand, is clearly a language that has a defined vocabulary and structure. As far as I can tell, it follows English grammatical conventions (Subject + Verb). I'd have to take a closer look, but it seems to translate almost word-for-word into English, which isn't really very realistic. I'd love to make a closer analysis of Star Wars languages with regards to how they're derived from human speech, but unlike Star Trek or Lord of the Rings languages, most of them just don't appear often enough. -----signature----- My Ramblings: http://www.livejournal.com/users/xaara/ My lil bro/sis: Flyboy_7/Wyn_Fel Wyomé, Handmaiden of the Crest
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Mr_Black Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 6/23/04 10:29pm Subject: RE: Alien languages
	What a technical reply. Thanks for that. I feel as if my thunder has been stolen. . Going from natural, personal perspective, I'd say that the linguistic nature of star wars has less to do with meticulous authoritative craftsmenship, and more to do with allowing the audience to immerse themselves freely in an alien universe/culture. Elements of the SW universe have a direct real world correspondance (the force=a more fantastical version of Taoism), and I'm sure the languages are no different. Bits & pieces are taken from the roots of multiple indigenous dialects and mish-moshed together to form suitable alien-speak. Keep in mind, this is just my gut feel. I could be entirely off base, but I just don't see something like the technicalities of E.T.-ese consuming too much of the production schedule. If it sounds alien, that's enough. There doesn't need to be textbooks or guidelines pertaining to it, like, for example, TLOTR. That work (which I still cannot read past Galadriel's Glade. The uber-description makes my pupils contract, and the effusive geneaology of elves puts my mind on spin-cycle) had different creative objectives; chief among them--making the reader feel & believe in the history of the story, not the fantasy aspect. Star Wars is just the opposite, a pure fantasy, set in a vague Galaxy Far, Far Away, Long Ago. And it's a timeless, joyful story because of it. I find it interesting that the methodology you mentioned is the dominant way of handling alien conversation, always second hand, indirectly from the human's perspective. Come to think of it, I don't see many aliens in ff; certainly not non-basic speakers. Talk about a void. It'd be a terrific writing challenge to present a story detailed in a completely fabricated language, yet still have the readers recognize character motivation, dynamic, and development, as well as empathize with their plight. Some day. -Mr Black -----signature----- "You can't seriously want to outlaw beer! It tastes great, makes women appear more attractive, and makes a person virtually invulnerable to criticism." --Mayor "Diamond" Joe Quimby
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DantanaSkywalker Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 6/24/04 4:02pm Subject: RE: Alien languages
	To make this relate to fanfiction (because at the moment it doesn't), I'm going to redirect the discussion a bit. Of the writers here who have made up languages for their stories (myself included), how do you go about doing that? Do you create an entire culture to go with it? How does it mesh with the "Star Wars" galaxy? I'll respond to these questions after other people have had a say. Dana -----signature----- http://www.kypandjaina.net "I always liked Kyp Durron better, anyway." -- Han Solo H.A.L. 1979-2008. An saol seo, gui duit an saol eile. Congrats, babe. Hope you're still laughing, wherever you are.
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Knight-Ander Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 6/24/04 4:20pm Subject: RE: Alien languages - Date Edited: 6/24/04 4:21pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Knight-Ander
	I don't make-up languages for my SW aliens, but I find that this website is pretty handy when it comes to translating some of the already established languages in the Star Wars universe. -----signature----- The Part He's Looking For - A pre-ANH Luke vignette http://boards.theforce.net/the_saga/b10476/30044606/p1/
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MariahJade2 Title: Former Fan Fiction Archive Editor Registered: Mar '01	Date Posted: 6/24/04 6:21pm Subject: RE: Alien languages
	I haven't made up any language per se. I have had non-human characters speak in their own tongue. I tried to use the films as a guide to create words that sounded similar in tone to what we had heard on screen. For a Falleen character I've got, I used a slavic language which I thought worked well. -----signature----- Have a question or suggestion for the Archive? Ask the NEWBS! Thank you Phillies! World Series Champs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7CI39brXvw "Why can't us" Best line of 2008
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ophelia Title: Ex-Mod Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 6/25/04 1:19am Subject: RE: Alien languages
	I tried creating some simple language rules for a culture I made up, but when I tried to write the language out in sentences I thought it looked terrible. I've confined myself to using single words at a time, which preserves some of the "alien culture" flavor without my having to resort to: "Ooogoo boogoo noogoo," said Pumphlett. For what it's worth, my "language" does have some simple grammar rules which more or less correspond to Latin, which I wasted four years of my adolescence learning for reasons which currently escape me. (Two of my sisters took Spanish, and they've been able to navigate more or less successfully on trips to Mexico. Where is my language training going to come in handy? Latin America? Heloooooo . . .) As for how to come up with collections of made-up words that have a homogenous, "same language" sound, I usually find two or three RL languages that have the right "feel" and then copy down collections of syllables I like. Then I play "spin the phonemes" and mix and match the syllables and spellings until I like the result. If it's a really important made-up word, I'll sometimes enter it in Google to make sure it's not a real word in some obscure language. It would be sort of embarrassing if my word for "great high priestess" meant "drunken brother-in-law" in Tagalog or something. -----signature----- In the jungle, the mighty jungle, the lion sleeps with your mom
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Xaara Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 6/25/04 7:03am Subject: RE: Alien languages
	With all due respect, DantanaSkywalker, I believe that any discussion of the technical aspects of the Star Wars galaxy that might be useful to fan fiction writers (such as a discussion of the origins of the various languages) belongs in the Fan Fiction Resource forum. As for languages I've made up, when I need a quick language, I just take what I want to say, translate it into a language that doesn't have English grammatical structure (usually a romance language), and then change vowels and some consonants until I have the sound I want. For more long-term, in-depth languages, I work similarly to ophelia - I come up with a collection of about 30-40 standard sounds and work from there. It's really amazing how much you have to define in creating a language. It's necessary to come up with standard and irregular verbs and their conjugations, singulars and plurals, various agreements, etc. (But hey, it's fun. ) -----signature----- My Ramblings: http://www.livejournal.com/users/xaara/ My lil bro/sis: Flyboy_7/Wyn_Fel Wyomé, Handmaiden of the Crest
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The_SkyWolves Registered: Feb '04	Date Posted: 6/25/04 11:24am Subject: RE: Alien languages
	I've noticed that Huttese at times seems to follow Japanese conventions (Noun- yaddayadda- verb.) Like "Solo, for tu ba ke chaya. (I like Captain Solo where he is.) I've created a language of some 500 words which follows Japanese conventions to an extent. I have some words that relate to English words- like ai= yes, na=no, fil=cat (feline), kan=dog (canine), etc... Ku dei Katafo fo? (Can you, Katafo speak?) La nai. (I can.) Dita nai. (Fun, is. It's fun.) Ies, naiesta nai. (But, not useful is. But, it's not useful.) -----signature----- "Mind tricks won't work on me, only funny!" "I've never said 'Yippee' in my life!"
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DarthIshtar Title: Former CR Registered: Mar '01	Date Posted: 6/25/04 5:36pm Subject: RE: Alien languages
	I once saw something with John Williams where he said that Ewok was kind of backwards Chinese. -----signature----- "GET OUT OF THE WAY." Yoink It's coming
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SaberBlade Registered: Sep '01	Date Posted: 6/25/04 10:20pm Subject: RE: Alien languages
	The language that I've been working on for a while is based mostly off of Latin, because that's what I took in school for many years. I think this fits in many ways, because the culture of the language is very old and in many ways archaic, so the rather archaic and formal structure of Latin, especially the verb forms, help me get a feel for the culture. Also, I'm having fun with it, since it's supposed to be very complicated and near impossible for a non-native to understand. I've been shortening things and rearranging things around to make it a bit more of a mess. I've been playing around with contractions a bit too, which are always fun. Generally, my word order follows Latin, in that the verb can basically go anywhere because the case of the other words will tell you what the subject, direct object, etc is. Sometimes it's a royal pain, but overall, I love playing around with it. Question for others like me: how do you come up with words? Do you have a vocab list of nouns, adjectives, and verbs, and make up each word, or do you have like a list of phrases and only invent words for the phrases, as necessary? I'd be interested in seeing how you decide what words are important enough to translate. -Saber -----signature----- My fics are in my bio. And now they're even unlocked! The new fic series: Debates - http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=17715156&start=17719595 I'm amused. I'm constantly amused.
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DarthIshtar Title: Former CR Registered: Mar '01	Date Posted: 6/26/04 12:14pm Subject: RE: Alien languages
	I've used Naboo a bit in my stories (most recently for a mourning song) and a lot of it is a mix of either Hebrew or Greek and misspelled spanish. -----signature----- "GET OUT OF THE WAY." Yoink It's coming
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Mr_Black Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 6/27/04 11:47pm Subject: RE: Alien languages - Date Edited: 6/27/04 11:51pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Mr_Black
	Saber Blade: Question for others like me: how do you come up with words? Do you have a vocab list of nouns, adjectives, and verbs, and make up each word, or do you have like a list of phrases and only invent words for the phrases, as necessary? I'd be interested in seeing how you decide what words are important enough to translate. In my writing, it's much less technical. I find, based on my preferences as an author, and the preferences of the audience that I'm writing the story for, that a fabricated language seems much more natural & genuine if it simply sounds like a foreign language. as for individual words, someone else mentioned spelling rearrangements, but, as is true with any dialogue, speaking it out loud after you write it helps it keep a truer ring. Especially when cavorting with a completely made up dialect, I speak it into a tape recorder. Than I pitch it up or down, speed it up, slow it down, play it backwards. Sometimes it's difficult to capture the inflections or syllabic stresses purely in writing, so I elect to narrate the stories that I use my languages in. Plus, I like to flex my anemic acting muscles, so that's just an excuse . Capturing a language in writing alone is a difficult task. I think the best thing to do when constructing is to avoid randomness. The language needs to have rules, parameters, and guidelines about it so the readers can latch on to an air of sincerity and consistency. This helps them remain rooted in your fictional universe instead of jarring them out of it by thinking "jeez, this guy's just trying to hard. It all seems like a bunch of nonsense." If you want to take a hit for your art, you can try speaking your language at random intervals while in conversation. It's a good idea to start with the closest of friends, so that the embarassment, humility, and hilarity is contained & at a minimum. Usually, in the linguistic aftermath, their ensuing facial expression speaks many more/richer volumes than any "How To" book could aspire to. Hope this kinda/sorta helped. -Mr Black -----signature----- "You can't seriously want to outlaw beer! It tastes great, makes women appear more attractive, and makes a person virtually invulnerable to criticism." --Mayor "Diamond" Joe Quimby
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Mr_Black Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 6/27/04 11:58pm Subject: RE: Alien languages
	Dana: Do you create an entire culture to go with it? It depends on the situation within the story. If the person/creature is a main protagonist, than yes. It adds to their depth & arc as a character, their backstory, and the overall themes of the overall story. However, if I'm using foreigners as a plot device, or featuring them in a second-tier scene, than no. For example, if I'm going to have the separatists hold an alien world hostage and eventually blow it up, I'd try to demonstrate the culture in broader strokes (the costuming, the architecture, technical or mechanical devices, weaponry, etc) instead of using the alien language as the concentrated portal for this world & its people. -----signature----- "You can't seriously want to outlaw beer! It tastes great, makes women appear more attractive, and makes a person virtually invulnerable to criticism." --Mayor "Diamond" Joe Quimby
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ladyrebelsw1983 Registered: Dec '02	Date Posted: 7/1/04 4:48pm Subject: RE: Alien languages - Date Edited: 7/1/04 4:50pm (1 edits total) Edited By: ladyrebelsw1983
	I just recently checked out a book from the library on Star Wars tourism, which contains common phrases, conjuctions, nouns, and adjectives in 8 of the popular languages from Star Wars (Pre-Corellian, Huttese, Bocce, Ewok, Shyriiwook aka Wookie, droid chatter, Jawa, Sandpeople, Gunganese, and Neimoidian). It may be helpful for you. It is titled: "Star Wars: Galactic Phrase Book and Travel Guide" and is authored by Ben Burtt Lady Rebel -----signature----- A Baby Named Janaree Completed 7/20/04, Criticism Welcome Han/Leia/OC, Post-RotJ AU http://boards.theforce.net/Beyond_the_Saga/b10477/16371616/ See my profile for my bio and all my fics
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DantanaSkywalker Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 7/1/04 4:57pm Subject: RE: Alien languages
	With all due respect, DantanaSkywalker, I believe that any discussion of the technical aspects of the Star Wars galaxy that might be useful to fan fiction writers (such as a discussion of the origins of the various languages) belongs in the Fan Fiction Resource forum. Yes, but it must relate to fanfiction. Just having a discussion on the languages does not relate to fanfiction. Alien languages and how the board members create them, use them, etc., and resources for them, THAT relates to fanfiction. Dana -----signature----- http://www.kypandjaina.net "I always liked Kyp Durron better, anyway." -- Han Solo H.A.L. 1979-2008. An saol seo, gui duit an saol eile. Congrats, babe. Hope you're still laughing, wherever you are.
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