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Author Topic: Databank Update: Showdown on Utapau
Rogue_Follower  8682 posts
Title: Manager: Literature
 Registered: Nov '03
6468_Blackhole
Date Posted: 6/17/05 6:15pm Subject: Databank Update: Showdown on Utapau - Date Edited: 6/17/05 6:25pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Rogue_Follower
Showdown on Utapau

Good stuff, including Cody and some more droid info. cool

 
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QuentinGeorge  4827 posts
Registered: Dec '03
48582_Kaan (60609)
Date Posted: 6/17/05 6:31pm Subject: RE: Databank Update: Showdown on Utapau
Now with both Cody and Gree's databank showing that they "willingly" carried out Order 66, can we dispense with the nonsense that somehow they were "pre-programmed" like robots and couldn't help killing th Jedi?

 

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Ph0enix  2048 posts
Registered: Jul '02
42320_Luke Skywalker
Date Posted: 6/17/05 6:34pm Subject: RE: Databank Update: Showdown on Utapau - Date Edited: 6/17/05 6:40pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Ph0enix
Karen Traviss explained it well.

Something about how real soldiers, no matter if they disagree with their orders, follow them without hesitation, or else they're dead.

Of course, in the clone's case, we could also say that while they had some independence, they were not granted full independence like the ARCs or Jango had.

 
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Leto II  12084 posts
Registered: Jan '00
42114_Jones Attacked
Date Posted: 6/17/05 6:51pm Subject: RE: Databank Update: Showdown on Utapau - Date Edited: 6/17/05 6:53pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Leto II
Although Cody's entry is still rather vague on that point -- "willingly" could just as easily denote "coercively-against-his-will." However, I still prefer the "willing cooperation" angle, too, meself.

Don't let Karen Traviss hear that we said that. She'll be insufferable for weeks. wink

On another note: didn't the P-38 (Buuper Torsckil Abbey Devices) Utai fighter, have more than the limited "twinned" laser cannons than what the Databank entry describes? Knew its sensors were well above par, but that particular bit about the weaponry surprised me.

 

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QuentinGeorge  4827 posts
Registered: Dec '03
48582_Kaan (60609)
Date Posted: 6/17/05 6:55pm Subject: RE: Databank Update: Showdown on Utapau
I prefer the "willing" angle because the other option is lame fanboy speculation.

 

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Kreuzader  1073 posts
Registered: Apr '02
21423_Clone Trooper
Date Posted: 6/17/05 7:00pm Subject: RE: Databank Update: Showdown on Utapau
I got a chuckle out of the P-38 "starfighter" happy

 

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chiss_man  14020 posts
Registered: Jul '02
48284_AT-AT Fail
Date Posted: 6/17/05 11:42pm Subject: RE: Databank Update: Showdown on Utapau
QuentinGeorge posted on 6/17/05 6:55pm
I prefer the "willing" angle because the other option is lame fanboy speculation.


Yup, they were good soliders. They followed their orders well.

 

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Kwenn  9850 posts
Registered: Mar '01
8059_Qui-Gon Jinn
Date Posted: 6/18/05 8:06am Subject: RE: Databank Update: Showdown on Utapau
So, the Octuptarra droid and the tri-droid are two separate units. Nice to know. Hopefully whatever update incorporating Mygeeto will feature the Octuptarra's cousins.

I had hoped the Republic assault gunboat would turn out to be the Jadthu-class lander first seen in Shatterpoint (since Cody flies into battle in a Jadthu in Stover's RotS novelization). Ah well.

 

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Durnar  963 posts
Registered: Apr '04
6956_A'Sharad Hett
Date Posted: 6/18/05 8:18am Subject: RE: Databank Update: Showdown on Utapau
Weve seen before in Republic 68 that a clones first loyalty is to their orders and not the Jedi. After Aayla orders Bly not to attack Quinlan you see him thinking about how he wants to disobey because his overall order is to kill enemies of the Republic, and Aayla is going against that.
And he didnt seem to upset to shred her corpse either.

 

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Leto II  12084 posts
Registered: Jan '00
42114_Jones Attacked
Date Posted: 6/18/05 9:44am Subject: RE: Databank Update: Showdown on Utapau
Even before that, I'd say -- witness Republic #50, wherein "Alpha" locks down Jango's directives to the letter, destroying the cloning facility with the Jedi still inside in order to prevent Confed seizure of the embryos ("They either grow up loyal to the Republic, or they don't grow up, period").

 

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ThrawnRocks  14874 posts
Registered: Apr '04
49039_Cody (804091)
Date Posted: 6/18/05 10:39am Subject: RE: Databank Update: Showdown on Utapau
^^

But there he was talking about preventing the Seperatists form gaining an entire generation of Clones, which would be much more devistating in the long run then to kill a few Jedi.



They weren't just being good soldirs, they were pre-programed. I'm sure that the Kaminoans told them that Order 66 means that the jedi have rebelled, so that their concious minds can associate it with something, but if it were just that, not every clone would execute the order. The clones are human. They experience human emotions. They have built bonds with their commanding Jedi. We see that with Alpha, Cody and many others. Some of them would queston this order, because they would know the jedi too well to think that they had betrayed them.

In the real world, if every second in command officer in an army suddenly got the order to kill their commanding officer, in the middle of battle, some of them would do it yes, but some would not.

Palpatine would not gamble on the emotions of the Clones. He would make sure that every clone that recieves the order will execute it without question.

 

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Qu_Klaani  1559 posts
Registered: Mar '04
39890_Ki-Adi-Mundi
Date Posted: 6/18/05 10:55am Subject: RE: Databank Update: Showdown on Utapau
"In the real world, if every second in command officer in an army suddenly got the order to kill their commanding officer, in the middle of battle, some of them would do it yes, but some would not."

If they'd been genetically engineered and then trained from birth to be absolutley loyal and follow every order qithout question, then yes, they would, and the clones did, and thats canon.

 

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ThrawnRocks  14874 posts
Registered: Apr '04
49039_Cody (804091)
Date Posted: 6/18/05 11:01am Subject: RE: Databank Update: Showdown on Utapau - Date Edited: 6/18/05 11:19am (1 edits total) Edited By: ThrawnRocks
Exactly. They were programed. happy

 

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Durnar  963 posts
Registered: Apr '04
6956_A'Sharad Hett
Date Posted: 6/18/05 12:56pm Subject: RE: Databank Update: Showdown on Utapau
Not necessarily. Theyre just conditioned to follow orders from the highest sources, even if that overrides more recent oreders. To the clones, Palpatine and Jango were the two highest authority figures, and its their commands that have to be followed, over and above what the Jedi say.
And as for Order 66 being a programmed switch, I dont buy it. I mean, if this was the big turning point that Palps had designed, why is it #66 and not #1? To me it seems more like a set of military contingency plans, which were all set out and taught in advance. So for example, Order 65 could be that the Senate have revolted and need to be executed.

 

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quad_gun_jinn  1080 posts
Registered: Dec '02
14541_Boba Fett Concept
Date Posted: 6/18/05 2:29pm Subject: RE: Databank Update: Showdown on Utapau
Durnar posted:
Not necessarily. Theyre just conditioned to follow orders from the highest sources, even if that overrides more recent oreders. To the clones, Palpatine and Jango were the two highest authority figures, and its their commands that have to be followed, over and above what the Jedi say.
And as for Order 66 being a programmed switch, I dont buy it. I mean, if this was the big turning point that Palps had designed, why is it #66 and not #1? To me it seems more like a set of military contingency plans, which were all set out and taught in advance. So for example, Order 65 could be that the Senate have revolted and need to be executed.


Its probably because if it were Order 1 the jedi might get curious about why they only know order 2 onwards. Order 66 might be a few numbers away from the last one

 

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Kwenn  9850 posts
Registered: Mar '01
8059_Qui-Gon Jinn
Date Posted: 6/18/05 2:32pm Subject: RE: Databank Update: Showdown on Utapau
There are other Orders. Order 37 (IIRC) is carried out in Last of the Jedi, wherein the stormtroopers subjugate the population of a city to flush out an enemy of the Empire. Order 66 is just a code-name. Doesn't mean that Order 1 is more important.

Clones aren't programmed to carry out their orders - at least, not in the sense that droids are programmed to follow commands. Clones are grown, shaped and conditioned to be totally obedient to their supreme commander, obeying any order without question - that's the big plus for Sidious using clones; they can be forged for whatever mindset he wishes.

 

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