Author Topic: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
patchworkz7  3191 posts
Registered: Mar '04
41675_Mandalorian Father and Son
Date Posted: 5/2/08 11:15pm Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
Trip posted:
Charles, does Niathal get her just desserts?


We need Daala to rule the GA with a stuffed Pellaeon as her VP.

CORPSENAP!

And for her to get a phone call from Boba telling her to get check for a case of the "nano"

Maybe the Moffs just stole Daala sheets for some Fett...ehhh, that kind of bad taste should be reserved for chat.

 

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Havac  14734 posts
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered: Sep '05
51538_Soontir Fel (10110)
Date Posted: 5/2/08 11:18pm Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
Darth_Carl99 posted:
And as far as jag just getting given the moffship....WTH is ging on here.

God, I hope Jag gets the Moffship.

 

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Trip  2396 posts
Registered: Dec '03
41423_Stormtrooper
Date Posted: 5/2/08 11:20pm Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
patchworkz7 posted:
We need Daala to rule the GA with a stuffed Pellaeon as her VP.

CORPSENAP!

And for her to get a phone call from Boba telling her to get check for a case of the "nano"

Maybe the Moffs just stole Daala sheets for some Fett...ehhh, that kind of bad taste should be reserved for chat.

I'm having visions of a hit sitcom here.

 

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RebelGrrl  2143 posts
Registered: Jan '06
14691_Dani
Date Posted: 5/2/08 11:25pm Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
There is a significant difference between being mentally ill and treatable with psychoactive drugs, and being so corrupted and tainted and mentally twisted under the Dark Side that you can't pick your own nose without putting a lightsaber through your brain.

The Dark Side cannot be treated with pharmacology.

If Caedus is so far gone to not be able to find his own way out, which it very much sounds like he is, the only other alternative is to end his capacity to do further harm to himself and to others.

 

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Charlemagne19  26834 posts
Registered: Jul '00
6408_Jedi Outcast
Date Posted: 5/2/08 11:30pm Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
RebelGrrl posted:
There is a significant difference between being mentally ill and treatable with psychoactive drugs, and being so corrupted and tainted and mentally twisted under the Dark Side that you can't pick your own nose without putting a lightsaber through your brain.

The Dark Side cannot be treated with pharmacology.

If Caedus is so far gone to not be able to find his own way out, which it very much sounds like he is, the only other alternative is to end his capacity to do further harm to himself and to others.


Jacen is around the bend but Tenel Ka and Allana are still important to him.

 

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Darth_Carl99  259 posts
Registered: Feb '08
7763_Padme
Date Posted: 5/2/08 11:34pm Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
A lot of modern mental ilnesses aren't tretable with pharmacolgy, but that dosen't stop us trying to help them.

he same applies with the Jedi.

They won't kill somone out of hand if they can avoid it, they'll try to help them regardless of how easy it's going to be. Even if it seems impossibble they'll try.

Look at Raynar, in comparision to his old self he's pretty far gone and hard to reach, but they've tried with him anyway.

 

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Charlemagne19  26834 posts
Registered: Jul '00
6408_Jedi Outcast
Date Posted: 5/2/08 11:36pm Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
Darth_Carl99 posted:
A lot of modern mental ilnesses aren't tretable with pharmacolgy, but that dosen't stop us trying to help them.

he same applies with the Jedi.

They won't kill somone out of hand if they can avoid it, they'll try to help them regardless of how easy it's going to be. Even if it seems impossibble they'll try.

Look at Raynar, in comparision to his old self he's pretty far gone and hard to reach, but they've tried with him anyway.


Troy makes it clear it's probably the wrong decision for Jaina to have done it.

Jaina herself admits it post-Caedus murder time to Jag.

 

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RebelGrrl  2143 posts
Registered: Jan '06
14691_Dani
Date Posted: 5/2/08 11:36pm Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed) - Date Edited: 5/2/08 11:39pm (1 edits total) Edited By: RebelGrrl
Padme was still important to Vader, too, but he nearly choked her to death anyway.

That Tenel Ka and Allana are still important to Caedus is not a ringing endorsement.

For redemption to be possible, the subject has to want it and reach for it, and from the descriptions posted, it sounds like Caedus was incapable of even formulating the desire for this. Maybe if he had two decades to work it out like Grandpa... however, we saw how much damage THAT caused in the meantime. The galaxy can't wait that long.

I have no doubt that Jaina will be beating herself up about this for the rest of her life, and doubting herself. She's not going to have any peace from this, though she's saved the galaxy from the horrors her brother visited upon it and brought peace to it's citizens.

 

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Immortalelf 
Registered: Jul '07
Date Posted: 5/2/08 11:37pm Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
Sorry Havoc. ( for the need to edit my previous )


What did I want to happen?

Tough to explain. While I didn't have a major issue with the NJO itself, I am one that am/was severely disappointed with the death of Anakin Solo. Traitor is my absolute favorite Star Wars book ever. I enjoyed the very start of the DNT, however, I feel that Jacen's characterization from that point was completely bogus.

My second issue is that at every single step in LotF that Jacen COULD have succeeded in his quest for peace, one of the "good guys" totally screwed him over. There were at least 3 or 4 times that peace could've been established that either Luke, or Leia, or Han, or Tenal Ka decided to stab Jacen in the back and drove Jacen into more disarray and insanity. This series was entirely too ambiguous in intelligence, morality and just basic "starwars-y-ness". The heroes are borderline badguys and idiots, the badguy was the only person (to begin with) working towards a valid goal, only to be driven away from it by the idiotic actions of the 'heroes', who caused more disarray and chaos.
Anakin was my favorite up until his death. Jacen took up that mantle in Traitor, to see BOTH of them dead in such completely pointless and idiotic circumstances (1 of which was Denning's idea in the first place) ... just.. meh. I don't care about Ben. I don't care about Tahiri, Allana, Jaina, Kyp, Zekk or Jag. Nothing about them appeal to me in any real sense. Luke's getting older, he needs to move aside and the second generation needs to move up, but all of the characters that start to step into the limelight and pick up the mantle that the "big 3" have carried for so log gets blasted into oblivion. Not only are GOOD secondary characters ignored anymore, they killing off the tertiary of the Big-3.

I'm sick of the sole focus on the Big names, only to screw them over and rip them apart. I've been a hardcore starwars fan my whole life. I'm 26 right now. I watched A New Hope so many times growing up that no one wants to watch it with me, as i can quote the whole movie as it plays. As soon as HTTE came out, I was reading it. I checked out or bought every book as it came out that I could get my hands on. The very first movie I ever saw in a movie theater was The Phantom Menace. I've played nearly every starwars game ever to come out. So, my devotion to Star Wars is quite extreme. However, at this point, there's just TOO much stupidity in the way they're taking the "Main characters" as DR has apparently come to look at it. I have greatly enjoyed the secondary characters and their contributions to the story, as well as what the main characters have done. But it's gone too far IMO. Too many dropped plot threads, too many stupid choices, too many good characters corrupted for a stupid plot line that isn't necessary. It's just pointless. I'm completely done with the Luke era of Star Wars, if not completely.

 

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Lord_Hydronium  6376 posts
Title: Literature Gardener
Registered: Jun '02
15597_Vergere
Date Posted: 5/2/08 11:40pm Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed) - Date Edited: 5/2/08 11:41pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Lord_Hydronium
I don't think the full text of the Millennium Falcon ad was posted here, so for what it's worth, here's what StarNeptune added to Wookieepedia:
Invincible posted:
The Story Continues...

With the end of the brief but brutal reign of Darth Caedus comes a period of unexpected stability. Under the strong hand of former Imperial Admiral Daala, star systems set aside their differences in the hope of forging a lasting peace.


But for the Jedi, many of whom had once looked to Jacen Solo for inspiration, the transition has been anything but smooth, as Luke Skywalker strives to chart a new course for the Order, and groped for an understanding of what ultimately drove his nephew to embrace the dark teachings of the evil Sith Lords.

The road to reconciliation has been harder still for Han and Leia Solo, who have now lost both of their sons. Some measure of solace comes in the form of Allana, Jacen's Force sensitive daughter, whom the Solos have adopted at the request of the girl's mother, Queen Tenel Ka of Hapes. But Han, especially, craves the distraction of action, so he, Leia and Allana embark on an investigation into the origin of the Millennium Falcon, the charmed starship that has seen Han through so many years of adventure.

By all indications, their quest should be safe, innocent: something to keep them interested and busy. But as they piece together the clues of the past, hints of a more profound mystery begin to reveal themselves, and a faceless threat lies in wait--one that has already launched a tentative assault not only on the Jedi Order, but on the Force itself.

 

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patchworkz7  3191 posts
Registered: Mar '04
41675_Mandalorian Father and Son
Date Posted: 5/2/08 11:41pm Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
Trip posted:
patchworkz7 posted:
We need Daala to rule the GA with a stuffed Pellaeon as her VP.

CORPSENAP!

And for her to get a phone call from Boba telling her to get check for a case of the "nano"

Maybe the Moffs just stole Daala sheets for some Fett...ehhh, that kind of bad taste should be reserved for chat.

I'm having visions of a hit sitcom here.


Or a movie:

WEEKEND AT BOBA'S

 

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Original Fiction & essays
"Unity" in FEAR THE ALIEN (Sept 2010) from
Black Library - a Warhammer 40K Anthology
More Novels in the WH40K universe to follow
James A Gilmer
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Rouge77  7570 posts
Registered: May '05
6464_Anakin Solo
Date Posted: 5/2/08 11:45pm Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
RebelGrrl posted:
For redemption to be possible, the subject has to want it and reach for it, and from the descriptions posted, it sounds like Caedus was incapable of even formulating the desire for this. Maybe if he had two decades to work it out like Grandpa... however, we saw how much damage THAT caused in the meantime. The galaxy can't wait that long.


Jacen had lost the galaxy at that point based on the spoilers. It wasn't about Jaina having to face him to save the galaxy or something like that anymore. Jacen wasn't an evil, powerful Sith mastermind ready to enslave the galaxy forever. It was just Jaina facing her insane, delusional brother - who at that point was driven forward only by his wish to save his daughter - and killing him without trying to capture or redeem him. It seems to have been a rather petty and nasty affair, a supposed winner in this conflict killing an already defeated foe just because she could do it. That it was her own brother makes it even worse.

 

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Lord-DarthMerrick  346 posts
Registered: Jul '03
14385_Drizzt<br>by RA Salvatore  (A&A)
Date Posted: 5/2/08 11:49pm Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed) - Date Edited: 5/2/08 11:50pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Lord-DarthMerrick
Rouge77 posted:
RebelGrrl posted:
For redemption to be possible, the subject has to want it and reach for it, and from the descriptions posted, it sounds like Caedus was incapable of even formulating the desire for this. Maybe if he had two decades to work it out like Grandpa... however, we saw how much damage THAT caused in the meantime. The galaxy can't wait that long.


Jacen had lost the galaxy at that point based on the spoilers. It wasn't about Jaina having to face him to save the galaxy or something like that anymore. Jacen wasn't an evil, powerful Sith mastermind ready to enslave the galaxy forever. It was just Jaina facing her insane, delusional brother - who at that point was driven forward only by his wish to save his daughter - and killing him without trying to capture or redeem him. It seems to have been a rather petty and nasty affair, a supposed winner in this conflict killing an already defeated foe just because she could do it. That it was her own brother makes it even worse.


I suppose she'll have the michael corleone godfather part III "I killed Fredo" delemna from here on out. "I didn't have to kill him, why'd I do it?"

 

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DarkScythe  426 posts
Registered: Jun '02
19057_Anakin Solo
Date Posted: 5/2/08 11:50pm Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
Okay as nifty as I find the idea of a novel exploring the Falcon's past. I can't get over the bit at the top about Daala uniting the Galaxy.

A brain damaged mass murdering terrorist who admits to wanting the Jedi exterminated and the GA run into the ground is going to be the leader uniting the galaxy.

I've been holding out hope that Lucas Film would learn their lesson about allowing the over writing and ignoring of established continuity but that kills any hope I had that continuity would ever matter again.



 

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Charlemagne19  26834 posts
Registered: Jul '00
6408_Jedi Outcast
Date Posted: 5/2/08 11:51pm Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
FYI, I don't think the Dark Side was chemically unbalancing Jacen. I think it was more an H.P. Lovecraft sort of thing mixed with Heart of Darkness. Jacen Solo had his very human sources of insanity but also staring into the Dark Side shook him to the very core and started to drive him mad.

Sort of like Palantir.

 

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