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Topic:
Vader Lies To Palps
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LASTJEDICHOSENONE
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
2/20/05 5:08pm
Subject:
Vader Lies To Palps
- Date Edited:
2/20/05 5:40pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
LASTJEDICHOSENONE
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In the DVD release of the TESB, in the scene which Ian McDiarmid has redone the hologram scene, Vader seems surprised by Palpatine's declaration that Luke is Anakin's "offspring". It is my belief that Vader, of course, already knew this, but pretends that he was unaware of this connection. Vader's surprise doesn't seem at all convincing, either. He knew. Whether the comic series "Vader's Quest" - that covers Vader's discovery of Luke between ANH and TESB matters towards the films or not, he still knew.
I wonder if Palpatine knew he was pretending, and how could Vader keep such knowledge from the Emperor?
Did the Emperor sense any danger of Vader and Luke's connection? And I find it difficult to believe that turning Luke didn't cross Palpatine's mind before Vader suggested it.
Your thoughts...? "Tawk amongst yaselves...discuss"!
P.S. Just a head's up...this isn't a discussion of the DVD changes. This is a discussion of the STORY that the dialogue in this particular new scene affects. Thanks!
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clone3131
Registered:
Feb '04
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Date Posted:
2/20/05 5:49pm
Subject:
RE: Vader Lies To Palps
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Yup- Vader was lying.
And Yup Palpatine knew it.
"I hope your feelings on this matter are clear Lord Vader..."
CLone
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LASTJEDICHOSENONE
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
2/20/05 6:52pm
Subject:
RE: Vader Lies To Palps
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Vader: "What is thy bidding, my master?"
Palpatine: "There is a great disturbance in the Force."
Vader: "I have felt it"
Palpatine: "We have a new enemy - the young rebel who destroyed the Death Star. I have no doubt this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker."
Vader: "How is that possible?"
Palpatine: "Search your feelings, Lord Vader. You will know it to be true. He could destroy us."
Vader: "He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him."
Palpatine: "The Force is strong with him. The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi."
Vader: "If he could be turned, he would become a powerful ally."
Palpatine: "Yes...He would be a great asset. Can it be done?"
Vader: "He will join us or die, Master."
When Vader so casually asks, "How is that possible?" the delivery of Palpatine's reply, "Search your feelings, Lord Vader. You will know it to be true" almost comes off as a way of Palps saying, "Don't BS me, Lord Vader. You know I know the deal."
And when Vader suggests that Luke be turned, Palpatine's delivery of THAT line - particularaly his creepy "Yeeees" almost sounds like a mockery...like "You fool! You think I didn't think of this already? The question is - are you capable of doing it?"
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Dinogallus
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
2/20/05 6:58pm
Subject:
RE: Vader Lies To Palps
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I think it has something to do with something that happens in Episode III that I don't want to say. You guys would yell.
(I normally stay away from spoilers, but my best friend's boyfriend told her this and she just blurted it out to me.)
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Darth Kruel
Registered:
Jun '00
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Date Posted:
2/20/05 9:47pm
Subject:
RE: Vader Lies To Palps
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Vader was lying to the Emperor. But I think Palpatine didn't know Vader knew. Why would he have to inform Vader if he thought Vader knew about Luke Skywalker?
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LASTJEDICHOSENONE
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
2/21/05 9:12pm
Subject:
RE: Vader Lies To Palps
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I think Palpatine knew, but his fear got to him. He felt the threat getting stronger and needed to get the ball rolling. He needed Luke either on his side or dead as soon as possible now, and needed to get past Vader's keeping it to himself.
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Rennick
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
2/21/05 10:14pm
Subject:
RE: Vader Lies To Palps
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Would Palpatine really be afraid? According to Vader's dialogue with Luke on Bespin, the Emperor foresaw Luke destroying him and told Vader.
BTW: Is the son of Skywalker line still in this version?
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Emperor_Dantius
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
2/21/05 10:22pm
Subject:
RE: Vader Lies To Palps
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And Darth Vader knew that Paly knew.
After he said: Search your feelings, Lord Vader. You will know it to be true.
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Ker-Soth
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
2/22/05 2:48pm
Subject:
RE: Vader Lies To Palps
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I think that in the new dialogue they're both BSing each other royaly. Since the Sith are now an actual part of the SW films, not novel stuff, it might be a way to gently put it some of their customs. From that point of view, it almost looks like a declaration of war between them.
Palps: So, do ya think you're ready to bring it on, or should we just kill the boy at keep our relationship as it is?
Vader: Nope, i think i'm ready to become the Master. May the most rotten Sith wins.
Palps: Ditto
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Saberwielder315
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
2/22/05 4:04pm
Subject:
RE: Vader Lies To Palps
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It's also totally a possibility that Vader had totally different plans for Luke. I think deep in Vader's heart, he wanted Luke to help him turn back to the light side.
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VadersApprentince007
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
2/22/05 4:13pm
Subject:
RE: Vader Lies To Palps
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I've been saying this now for years. Vader is goooooooooooooooooooooooooood! What a character Lucas has created. We will all feel sorry for Vader at the end of ROTS.
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Ker-Soth
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
2/23/05 2:54pm
Subject:
RE: Vader Lies To Palps
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That would be interesting indeed. We'll have to wait and see
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ST-TPM-ASF-TNE
Title: Moderator Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
2/23/05 6:32pm
Subject:
RE: Vader Lies To Palps
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Would Palpatine really be afraid? According to Vader's dialogue with Luke on Bespin, the Emperor foresaw Luke destroying him and told Vader.
I think Vader was lying to Luke about Palpatine's fate. By telling Luke such an amazing thing like "You'll definately kill the Emperor if you do this", it would further coax Luke into going over to the Dark Side. I don't think Palpatine said what Vader told Luke.
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LASTJEDICHOSENONE
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
2/25/05 11:08am
Subject:
RE: Vader Lies To Palps
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I do think Vader wanted he and Luke to "rule the galaxy as father and son". I think Palps picked up on this - at least to SOME degree. But Vader knew about who Luke actually was long before Palps "informed him". And Palps knew he did, too, I believe.
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DarthyMarkyMark
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
2/25/05 11:35am
Subject:
RE: Vader Lies To Palps
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We'll have to wait and see what happens in RotS, but my feeling on this is that, after RotS, Vader believes he has no offspring - he probably thinks his child is dead. Then 20 years go by, and he senses a boy using the Force in the Death Star trench. Somewhere between ANH and ESB, the name "Skywalker" probably appears in some Rebel communications, and Vader finds the name. Now, he doesn't believe he has any offspring, so he wouldn't go jumping to conclusions that this "Skywalker" is his son - though probably a relative of some kind. But the name, and the fact that this Skywalker is strong in the Force, is enough to lead Vader into an obsessive search for the boy. But Palpatine realises quicker that this boy IS Anakin's son, and contacts Vader about it, saying "I have NO DOUBT that this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker". Vader asks "How is that possible?" because he believes his child to be dead. Now Vader KNOWS this boy is his son, he determines to go after him and turn him to the dark side. I don't think Vader specifically lies to Palps - I think he's unsure about whether this Skywalker truly is his son or not. Let's face it - if you were an incredibly talented swordsman, your wife was pregnant, but somewhere along the lines you believed your son to have died, and then 20 years later a person with the same last name as you comes along, who ALSO happens to be a talented swordsman ... you wouldn't automatically assume that this was your son, that would be an amazing leap. Vader just doesn't jump to conclusions - the Emperor has to confirm it for him.
What makes me think this is the ESB commentary. In the carbon freezing chamber scene, GL says, "Vader plan now, now that he knows that it's his son ...". That emphasis tells me that Vader may have suspected it was his son, but needed Palpatine to confirm it.
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LASTJEDICHOSENONE
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
2/27/05 12:14pm
Subject:
RE: Vader Lies To Palps
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All very good points.
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