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From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Father
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
9/8/02 2:16pm
Subject:
From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Father
- Date Edited:
7/4/05 9:48pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Errant_Venture
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I'm aware that this has been discussed in other threads, for example Binary_Sunset's "The Force's Portrayal Worsens..." and, over on the AOTC forum, Go-Mer-Tonic's "Whose Saga is this?". But to my knowledge, there is no single thread dealing with an exploration into the precise origins of George Lucas' creation of the character of Darth Vader. The main question at hand, then, is this:
"As of the final (fourth) draft of STAR WARS (now known as Episode IV: A NEW HOPE) did George Lucas know that Luke's (as yet unnamed) father and Darth Vader were one and the same man?"
The best evidence for an answer of "NO!" is that the first draft of THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, written by Leigh Brackett, contains no reference to this rather important information. The contention that Lucas "didn't tell Leigh everything, because he wanted to see what she would come up with on her own" (by Scudder) holds little water, as it would be senseless to hire a well-known author to write a sequel to the biggest money-making motion picture of all time (as of 1978), and not inform the writer of what is arguably the most important plot point in the entire story.
Similarly, the argument that "Lucas knew this was a huge bombshell and that it could possibly break the movie if it got out, so he kept the information under very tight wraps" (by Durwood) is without merit, as this secrecy, however extreme, would obviously not extend to a writer hired to pen the film.
The second best evidence that Lucas did not "know" Vader was Luke's father, until after the original film came out, is that in all of the notes and early drafts of STAR WARS, written by Lucas in the early to mid 70s, there is not a single reference to this fact. Since this material was not published until the late 80s--well after the Vader-as-father revelation had been made public--there is, again, no reason that secrecy can be supposed.
The third best evidence is that, in the aforementioned drafts (published under the title "The Annotated Screenplays"), Anakin Starkiller is a wholly distinct character from Darth Vader, though both exist and operate in the same time-frame.
My conclusion, then, is that it was not until the writing of ESB, during sessions with Lawrence Kasdan (following the death of Leigh Brackett), that the idea of Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker's father as the same man, was struck upon by Lucas, or Kasdan, or Irvin Kershner.
Have fun ripping me to pieces! 
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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AgentCoop
Registered:
Feb '02
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Date Posted:
9/8/02 2:32pm
Subject:
RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
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Another clear indicator of this is that in the early planning stages of ESB, Lucas was aparrently toying with the idea of Luke's father appearing to him as a ghost much like Obi-Wan does.
I'm not sure where that particular piece of information comes from, though. If anyone else can back me up by pointing out the source it would be appreciated.
Great idea for a thread, by the way.
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And the second penguin said..."Maybe I am."
Dark Lords of the JCC || Apprentice to Quixotic-Sith
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ADMIRALSPUZZUM
Registered:
Feb '02
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Date Posted:
9/8/02 2:41pm
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RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
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Hmm. Well, if you read the Journal of the Making of the Empire Strikes Back book, many of the main actors refer to Star Wars in James Bond style series manner. This would make your thoughts make more sense to me.
Intresting idea for a thread.
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MobartZmuda
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
9/8/02 4:40pm
Subject:
RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
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If GL didn't originally plan on Darth Vader being Anakin Skywalker, then what would the first half of the saga be about since at the time he was making ANH he knew it was the fourth in the series (or so I've heard)?
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AgentCoop
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Feb '02
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Date Posted:
9/8/02 5:10pm
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RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
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Well, for one thing keep in mind that when "Star Wars" was made no one expected it to be the kind of blockbuster success that it was. Lucas hoped that at best the film would break even. So at that point there was little hope that there would ever even be a sequel, let alone prequels.
Even once it became clear that Lucas would be able to continue the story, any prequels that would eventually be made would likely have been about Luke Skywalker's father no matter who he turned out to be. After all, "Star Wars" had laid the groundwork of a story where Luke's father is betrayed and murdered by a young Jedi named Darth Vader. Sounds like good prequel material to me.
-----signature-----
Two penguins were walking across an iceberg.
One penguin turned to the second penguin and said
"You look like you're wearing a tuxedo."
And the second penguin said..."Maybe I am."
Dark Lords of the JCC || Apprentice to Quixotic-Sith
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Vaderbait
Registered:
Sep '01
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Date Posted:
9/8/02 6:28pm
Subject:
RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
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Does it really matter? Like someone said above, he knew that Luke's father would play a big role, or else he wouldn't have spent half of ANH talking about Luke's father. He probably did have an idea about Anakin being Vader at the time. Remember, changes are always made to the scripts, he could've easily said "just make sure you put Luke and Vader together in a lightsaber battle at the end of the movie", and avoided telling anyone about the father revelation.
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MobartZmuda
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
9/8/02 6:32pm
Subject:
RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
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You brought up some good points AgentCoop, but I find it hard to fathom that 3 movies would be devoted to a guy that is just killed off half way through the saga(although they could bring him back in spirit form for what became ESB, it would be too ackward if he never appeared in ANH and then suddenly appeared in the next movie).
Besides, the betrayal and murder sound like it could all happen in one movie, so what about the other two?
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
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Nov '00
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Date Posted:
9/8/02 6:32pm
Subject:
RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
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I have two revisions to my original post. One is that "The Annotated Screenplays," compiled and edited by Laurent Bouzereau, was published not in the late 80s, but in 1997, the year the Special Editions were released. This further destroys the argument for "secrecy" as an explanation for the various notes and drafts not referring to Darth Vader as Luke's father, since by 1997, the revelation was well-known by virtually everyone on Earth. Thus there would be no reason to suppress the information, or to publish an incomplete record of Lucas' writings.
The second is that, in the notes and drafts, "Anakin" is spelled "Annikin." More on him in my next post. Stay tuned for a shocker.
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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MobartZmuda
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
9/8/02 6:36pm
Subject:
RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
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I guess "Annikin" looks too girly.
If the annotated screenplays weren't published until 1997 then there might be some conspiracy for continuity purposes. Deep down, we all know GL's been making most of it up as he goes along, he just tells us differently in interviews.
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
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Nov '00
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Date Posted:
9/8/02 6:54pm
Subject:
RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
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I will now prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that as of January 1, 1976, in the third draft of what would become "STAR WARS Episode IV: A New Hope", Darth Vader was a distinct character, wholly separate from Annikin Starkiller, his brothers Deak and Luke Starkiller, and their father Kane Starkiller, but existing in the same time frame as the others, so that no confusion whatsoever may be drawn between the characters.
Exhibit A: From Page 12 of "TAS" by Laurent Bouzereau. "In the rough draft Darth Vader is introduced during a scene on Alderaan ... a relatively minor character ... a tall, grim-looking general .... In the second draft and all subsequent screenplays Lord Darth Vader became the character we all know from the film. In that same draft ... Deak Starkiller ... makes a suicidal attempt to kill the [Galactic Ruler's] troopers with his lasersword and laserpistol and suddenly is confronted by Darth Vader. The Dark Lord raises his arms, and every object that is not bolted down is picked up by an invisible force and hurled at Deak, who protects himself with an invisible shield. Vader and Starkiller have a duel ...."
I submit the above to show that Vader is the character we know from the film, and not just a villain with the same name. Further exhibits forthcoming.
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
9/8/02 7:02pm
Subject:
RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
- Date Edited:
9/8/02 7:19pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Vortigern99
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Exhibit B: From Pages 26-27 of "TAS" by Laurent Bouzereau. "The idea of a three-dimensional hologram message first appeared in the second draft; the message is from Deak Starkiller to his brother, Luke: 'Whippersnapper, I didn't make it ... I'm sorry. The forces of the Bogan [the dark side] have become strong and deadly ... I am lost. Father is in grave danger. He needs you and he needs the Kiber Crystal [which intensifies the Force]. You must find a way to get to Ogana Major on your own. He is waiting for you there. Be careful, though. Ogana Major is under siege by the Imperial Legions of Alderaan. You must hurry, for the force of the Ashla [the good side] grows weak, and I don't know how much longer Father can hold out. The enemy has constructed a powerful weapon to use against him. Warn Uncle."
I submit the preceding to show that, even as Darth Vader is shown elsewhere as a villain, Deak and Luke's father is referred to as a living character, able to use the good side of the Force, and who is waiting for his sons to rescue him on another planet.
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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VadersLaMent
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
9/8/02 7:15pm
Subject:
RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
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In a book called "Not of this Earth", (Which also has a reverse section on Tekwar) it is interesting to note that Darth Vader started out as a General(Literally General Darth Vader, which means at first "Darth" was his name and not a title) and his partner was a Black Knight of the Sith named Prince Valorum.
It notes that this was in the first rough draft screenplay in May 1974.
Great thread btw vortigern 
-----signature-----
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic--Arthur C. Clarke
Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God--Michael Shermer
I am officially Awesome.
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
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Nov '00
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Date Posted:
9/8/02 7:17pm
Subject:
RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
- Date Edited:
9/8/02 7:21pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Vortigern99
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Exhibit C: From Page 33 of "TAS" by Bouzereau. "In the third draft ... Luke ... tells Ben that he knows his *Diary of the Clone Wars* by heart and that he is the son of Annikin Starkiller."
I submit the preceding to show that Luke's father is Annikin, who in Exhibit D, below, is shown to be a different character from Darth Vader, but living contemporarily with him.
Exhibit D: From Pages 7-8 of "TAS" by Bouzereau. [In] the rough and first drafts ... the story starts with young Annikin Starkiller spotting a spacecraft orbiting the fourth moon of Utupau, where he is hiding with Kane, his father, and Deak, his ten-year old brother. Annikin is sixteen and is described as tall and heavyset. Annikin rushes back into the shabby hut where he lives with his father and brother. Kane is one of the last Jedi warriors and is hiding with his two sons from a rival sect, the Knights of Sith. Kane is a large, burly man 'wearing the distinctive robes of a Jedi' and has been imparting his knowledge to the two boys .... Kane and his two sons go check out the Sith spacecraft that Annikin spotted; Kane walks toward it, leaving the boys behind. Suddenly, a Sith warrior dressed in black robes and wearing a face mask, an outfit that would later become Darth Vader's, appears behind the two boys and kills Deak with a long lasersword. Annikin pulls out his lasersword, 'which creates an eerie red glow,' and fights the enemy. Kane comes to the rescue and kills the Sith warrior with his sword .... Kane is dying; except for his head and right arm, his body has been replaced by electronic components ...."
This shows that Annikin is distinct from Vader. Kane, Annikin's father, has cybernetic parts reminiscent of Darth Vader's, but he is clearly a "good guy" and fights against an unnamed Sith warrior who looks just like Vader.
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
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Nov '00
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Date Posted:
9/8/02 7:34pm
Subject:
RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
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Exhbit E: From Page 36 of "TAS" by Bouzereau. "In the second draft, after he has listened to the message from his brother Deak to find their father, Luke Starkiller visits his mother's grave. Before he leaves, he tells his twin [younger] brothers about their family history and heritage: Long before the Empire, a holy man called 'the Skywalker' became aware of a powerful energy field that he believed influenced the destiny of all living creatures: the Force of Others. The Force has two halves: Ashla, the good, and Bogan the paraforce of evil. He entrusted his secret to his twelve children, who passed on the knowledge to their children; they became known as 'The Jedi Bendu of the Ashla.' But as the Republic spread throughout the galaxy, the Great Senate became corrupt and the Jedi warriors tried to purge it. They were denounced as traitors and executed: The Empire was born. During one of his lessons a 'Padawan-Jedi' named Darklighter came to know the Bogan. He joined Sith pirates, and together they became the Emperor's bodyguards. They hunted the remaining Jedi warriors; with each death, the Bogan grew stronger. Luke tells his brothers that their father is one of the Jedi survivors, and he must bring him a small diamond called 'the Kiber Crystal," the only thing that can intensify the Ashla, although in the hands of the 'Sith' warriors it could intensify the Bogan as well."
I submit the above to show that Luke Starkiller's father is a wholly different character from Darklighter, the Padawan-Jedi who betrayed the Jedi and hunted them to extinction.
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
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Nov '00
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Date Posted:
9/8/02 7:48pm
Subject:
RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
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Exhibit F: From Page 86 of "TAS" by Bouzereau. "In the second draft ... [Luke puts the Kiber Crystal] in Deak's hands. Suddenly Deak transmits a thought to Luke, revealing that their father is on the fourth moon of Yavin."
This shows that Luke's father Annikin really is alive, and cannot be some deception by Deak, as the vision is transmitted by the Ashla-intensifying Kiber Crystal.
Exhibit G: From Page 89 of "TAS" by Bouzereau. "In the second draft ... after the briefing in the war room with General Dodonna we meet the Starkiller, Deak and Luke's father, a wizened old man with long silver hair and beard and gray-blue eyes. 'He is a large man shriveled by an incalculable number of years.' ... The Starkiller explains to Luke that Deak has the Bogan (the dark side) in him .... The Starkiller also tells his son that his training is not complete ...."
The above proves once and for all that Luke Starkiller's father is a wholly distinct character from Darth Vader, who lives contemporaneously with Vader, and therefore cannot be the man who later became Vader.
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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Scudder
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
9/9/02 12:09am
Subject:
RE: From "The Annotated Screenplays": The Origins of Darth Vader, Anakin Starkiller, and Luke's Fath
- Date Edited:
9/9/02 12:19am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Scudder
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My post from the thread that this conversation originated in:
"The way I understand it from Lucas's quotes is that he had it planned for Luke's father to be some sort of dark mystery, and important to casting doubt on Luke's destiny.. The details weren't all there, but he knew that the father would be important, and not a simple freighter pilot... I think that idea coincided with his musings on what Vader's story could be, and how Vader would have come to know the Emperor, etc. and the two questions answered each other. From everything Lucas has said, the idea of Vader being Luke's father started to gel somewhere around the time that the story of ANH was reaching a finalized form.
"As for the first draft of Empire being so different from the final product.. That proves nothing about what Lucas did and didn't have planned, because a) he didn't tell Leigh everything, because he wanted to see what she would come up with on her own, and b) He has said repeatedly that her first script effort turned out to be nothing like what he wanted because it was early in the development of the film and he hadn't communicated all of his ideas to her well.. Basically, that draft wasn't what Lucas wanted at the time that it was written, so it can't actually be seen as a reflection of his intentions at the time."
I'd re-emphasize that using those drafts of the screenplay as evidence of Lucas's intentions holds no water, because he has said that those screenplays were nothing like he wanted or asked for, and even if they were, it's VERY plausible that he wouldn't tell the author about Vader's identity, because he wanted it kept secret, and it was to occur at the end of the film as a complete surprise. It also doesn't make much difference what the name Anakin was attached to in the early screenplays.. Originally a Dia-Noga was a Jedi term, and it ended up being used for the trash compactor monster... This doesn't prove when Lucas did or did not think of a trash compactor monster, though.
Anyway, whenever certain details occured to Lucas, we know that from very early on Luke's father was to be very important and to probably be central to the beckstory if it ever got filmed.. The decision to make that story one and the same with the Vader story doesn't change the core idea that goes to the origin of Luke's character, way back in '75 or '76. So give Lucas some credit, says I.
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