Jedi Council Forums - Expanding our universe.. Writing OC's and not Mary Sue: giving life *crackling lightning*

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Author	Topic: Expanding our universe.. Writing OC's and not Mary Sue: giving life crackling lightning
DarthBreezy Title: Retired Mos Everett Cantina Founder & JMPR Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 10/14/03 11:54am Subject: Expanding our universe.. Writing OC's and not Mary Sue: giving life crackling lightning - Date Edited: 7/13/04 2:47pm (3 edits total) Edited By: DantanaSkywalker
	I know we have a support 'club' for writing OC's (the 'Put your OC character profile here') which is very nice but I think we could use a thread to talk about developing them. When we delve into writing Ani/Obi/Padme/Han/Solo kids/ect, we are usually dealing with a set of characters that have already been 'drawn' for us... We may tinker with their personalities a bit, depending on our pereption of them, but all in all we still try to be 'true' to them. Oc's are an entirely new breed... we find them out of where ever, and as they are new faces to our readers, we must find ways to breath life into them, from the very basics of appearance to personality to 'walk and talk.' Please don't use this thread just to promote your OC story, but tell us how and where they came from (as a writer.. not their 'origins') I have two OC's that are primary characters. I wanted to give Anakin some companions that were outside of the realm of the small circle of the 'cannon characters'. I honestly don't know exactly where they came from but I find that as I write, each seems to step more and more out of the shadows and assert themselves more. They are exihiting traits and attributes that expand far eyond the quick notes I have for them... how often this happen to you? -----signature----- http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/29640754/p1 Dear Tam - an AU post ROTJ story told through the eyes of a child "It's hard, being a Jedi..." - Pem Skywalker Anywhere Is Possible
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Herman Snerd Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 10/14/03 12:15pm Subject: RE: Expanding our universe.. Writing OC's and not Mary Sue
	IMO, the most important part of developing an original character is to find the character's flaws as opposed to the virtues. Sure it's great when your character is the smartest (and best looking) person in any particular scene, but it's boring for someone else to read. Giving your character the ability to solve any problem isn't a sign that you've really nailed character development, but rather that you've failed. It's important to map out a character's idiocynchracies early on. One good tip is to insert a negative to balance every positive. So maybe your character is a great pilot, but at the same time he's an alcoholic. Or perhaps your character is someone the women (or men) find attractive, but his/her possessive nature causes every relationship to fail. What makes for good reading is to see a person overcome obstacles before succeeding or perhaps even failing in the effort. But simple solutions, no matter how clever, are always less satisfying. -----signature----- Voted Dork Magazine's "Sexiest Nerd Alive" for 2008 http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb237/Snerdmania/DSCF0113.jpg
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Daughter_of_Yubyub Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 10/14/03 12:31pm Subject: RE: Expanding our universe.. Writing OC's and not Mary Sue
	That's basically it. You have to remember that your OCs have to be human. Because of the Mary Sue issue, they fall under very close scrutiny. I actually don't have much experience writing OCs in fanfic, but they can't be that different than creating characters for a completely original story. You just have to remember to make them well rounded. One of my friends gave me the advice I use most: "Make sure you give every character at least one trait that you absolutely hate." YubYub and TG- Protecting fangirls from hormonally gifted fanboys since 2002 -----signature----- The Timbit Evangelist Dark Lady of the JCC Yubsié, Handmaiden of the Crest EUDF Commodore\| Assistant Empress etc.- WJFC See my bio for my memberships and fanfiction
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JadeSolo Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Sep '02	Date Posted: 10/14/03 12:57pm Subject: RE: Expanding our universe.. Writing OC's and not Mary Sue - Date Edited: 10/14/03 12:59pm (1 edits total) Edited By: JadeSolo
	Perhaps the OC also has a strange quirk or habit. It doesn't sound like much, but to say that someone pulls on his his earlobe whenever he's deep in thought gives at least a little more depth to a character, rather than just describing his pensive look. The one thing that always worries me is physical appearance, especially for humans and especially when they're redheads with green eyes. Does anyone ever automatically assume that they're about to read a Mary Sue story just based on that? -----signature----- "If you expect a kick in the balls and you get a slap in the face, it's a victory." "May God bless you and keep you always...I mean that in a civic deist way." -Prof. Siegel "No guaranteed money, but all guaranteed fun!"
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obi_ew Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 10/14/03 1:51pm Subject: RE: Expanding our universe.. Writing OC's and not Mary Sue
	I'm fairly new to writing OC's. In the past they were always minor secondary characters that had no backstory, they were simply a plot device for my main character's. My first exploration into an OC in a main role was a very scarey thing. It's hard to keep from making them too perfect. I now enjoy creating flaws and events in their pasts that have shaped who they are and how they act. You have to give them some short comings, even if it's something as simple as a bad temper or fears that are remnants from their past. Personality clashes with the canon characters are fun to write and I know my readers enjoy reading about them! -----signature----- In Loving Memory Of CC Price of Courage- Obi/Whie/Luke- http://boards.theforce.net/The_Saga/b10476/20124958/?37 Updated 4/20 Finally!!
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Lilith Demodae Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 10/14/03 3:05pm Subject: RE: Expanding our universe.. Writing OC's and not Mary Sue
	I have to say I come up with my best OCs when I'm getting ready to play an RPG of some sort. Yeah, it takes a long time to set your character up, but when you're done (provided you've done it right) they have skill sets, a background, strengths and weaknesses, physical and mental attributes. I find that I am already making up stories for these characters to explain why they are this way. Lilith Demodae was such an OC. I envisioned her as a female Han Solo. Granted, this isn't terribly original, but it gave me a starting place. Sure, I built a few of my own personality traits into her (I don't know anyone who can create a character that has absolutely nothing in common with their own selves), but I didn't let who I was limit who she could be. The biggest trick is indeed letting OCs be real, instead of superheros. Lilith's biggest hang up is that she feels she must be strong and independent at all times, even when there are friends who would help her out. She's survived in a rough galaxy and is more than a bit paranoid because of it, not that it hasn't saved her life, but it also gets in the way at times. Crash, a slicer of incredible skill, is moody, tempermental, impulsive, and definitely not a morning person. For every great skill or attribute, there should be a big (or several little ones) vice to offset it, balancing them in the midrange between hero and villain, where mere mortals usually dwell. Perfection is boring, and perfect people ... they are obnoxious, as well as boring. -----signature----- This post is brought to you by: This space for rent
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spiritgurl Registered: Jul '03	Date Posted: 10/14/03 6:37pm Subject: RE: Expanding our universe.. Writing OC's and not Mary Sue
	ahhh... a subject close to my heart. Original characters...love to make them up. I agree with all said so far, there should definitely be flaws present even in your "hero" OC. Although, I think with the hero you should avoid giving them so many flaws that a main character/OC isn't likeable enough for a reader to want to continue reading about them. Another thing, with Jedi OC's, to me it somehow seems tough to keep them away Mary Sueland. Am I the only one? I mean, you have a society of people who are supposed to be wise and powerful and without (or supposed to be without) many of the flaws that most people have. When I first thought about writing a SW fan fic, I was thinking female Jedi for an OC, and I started thinking of these cool things she could do and snappy lines and then I was like... uh-oh... I think I have a Mary Sue here. :\ So I decided to drop the idea. It also seemed to me that there were probably a lot of SW fics out there with Jedi OC's and I wanted to do something a bit different. Instead for my OC, I went with just a normal girl, a Coruscant waitress in fact. In order to avoid "Mary Sue" I decided to make her not at all force sensitive, very petite and definitely not much good in a fight, a little temperamental, a little clumsy, short brown hair instead of the usual "long and flowing" red or blonde hair people tend to give female OC's, and a healthy dose of inner torment. sg -----signature----- My fics: http://zalibethe.com/kenobi/storylisting.htm (update 6/29) Master of Solo-Evenstar ~ August Epic of the Month - Spirit Warriors of Angharad by Ophelia http://boards.theforce.net/The_Saga/b10476/15836193/p1
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Herman Snerd Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 10/14/03 7:01pm Subject: RE: Expanding our universe.. Writing OC's and not Mary Sue
	Mary Sue/Gary Stu is a bit more difficult when writing a Jedi original character. In my first ever story the Jedi OC never really had much of a chance to "show off" to the reader because there wasn't much action. Basically he was just a padawan who was a bit unsure of himself and in that story, awed at the company he was in. However, in the sequel he was a Jedi Knight and just seemed to want to have the knack to do everything. I admit that in the original version of the sequel he was definitely Gary Stu-ish and later when I re-wrote some of the story I made sure to take him down a few notches. He still managed to escape a couple of sticky situations, but he was definitely less successful at them and earned a few more scratches and bruises. -----signature----- Voted Dork Magazine's "Sexiest Nerd Alive" for 2008 http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb237/Snerdmania/DSCF0113.jpg
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Mistress_Renata Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Sep '00	Date Posted: 10/14/03 7:12pm Subject: RE: Expanding our universe.. Writing OC's and not Mary Sue
	Oh, Jedi OCs who aren't perfect! That's always my primary goal when I'm writing about Trett. The main thing I find is to remember that the Force ISN'T instantaneous solution. If the hero is badly hurt or really tired, it might give him an edge, but my hero still gets his butt kicked, from time to time. Also, remember that the mind trick only works on "weak minded individuals." Alas for Trett, there are a lot of STRONG minded folks in the world; so I'll have that work for him about half the time. And while he can use a lightsaber, he always remembers that he is supposed to be preserving life, so too often he is using it defensively, which doesn't always help him win battles. I have also decided that 90% of the Jedi in my stories aren't telepathic (George said they weren't!) so there is no instant communication between himself and his apprentice to help him of sticky situations. Just try to think of your Jedi as trying to use the Force and NOT always succeeding... make them a bit more vulnerable. I love OCs, can you tell? -----signature----- "For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the Guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times." Denizen of the Crotchety Old Mods' Home... approach with caution...
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ophelia Title: Ex-Mod Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 10/14/03 7:42pm Subject: RE: Expanding our universe.. Writing OC's and not Mary Sue
	I have a one-question Mary Sue litmus test. If someone walked up to me and said, "I hate that character. She's boring and awful and stupid and should be strangled," would I feel personally attacked? If the answer is "yes," there's more of me in the character than there should be, and I probably don't have the necessary emotional distance from her to make her really good. Actually, truth be told, my true Mary-Sue tendencies aren't directed at OCs at all, and the character in question isn't a "her." I have an Obi-Wan . . . thing. I identify with him. At times, this has gotten in the way of my effective portrayal of his character. It's the same with other characters I identify with, really. In general, I find I write best about characters I have nothing in common with--Anakin, for instance. So if you're determined to rid your work of anything that has the faintest whiff of Mary-Sueism, you might want to turn your attention away from the OCs and toward any canonical characters for whom you have a . . . thing. Not that all Mary-Sueism is terrible. Writing fiction is basically a form of wish-fulfillment to begin with, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just important not to get carried away. Personally, I think there is far too much bandwidth wasted on Mary Sue. People spend so much time making triply sure their OC isn't a Mary Sue that they sometimes forget that anything else is required. Okay, so the character can't sing and has a bad haircut and buck teeth, so we know she's unlikely to be a Mary Sue. Excellent. What about this character makes her interesting? What will make readers like her? Simply adding random flaws to a character is not enough. We need to see how these flaws help define her as an interesting person. Maybe she got a bad haircut as an act of defiance against her privileged and oh-so-fashion-conscious upbringing. I don't know. The real problem with Mary Sue is that her perfection is dull. Let's not compound the problem by creating characters who are imperfect, but still dull. -----signature----- In the jungle, the mighty jungle, the lion sleeps with your mom
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Cam_Mulonus Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 10/14/03 8:45pm Subject: RE: Expanding our universe.. Writing OC's and not Mary Sue
	One thing you must take into consideration is that everyone is different. What one person may see as a Mary Sue is seen by another person as a completely original character. It's all in how you look at it and what angle your looking from. But yeah, there are those that EVERYONE agree are Mary Sues. True, you want to make the character flawed for more depth, but don't make him George of Jungle dumb. How can someone be the Hero if he can't perform the tasks neccessary to save the day? That's why we read stories about heroes. To see people just like us do things we can't do. Just try not to make a generic cast AND a generic plot. There's always the Hero, the heroine, the Hero's Best friend, the Villain, the Hero's father figure because all heros have no fathers, the Villains mindless follower, the strong warrior, etc. BUT, you can get away with the generic cast if you make the plot good enough, and the relationships between those characters complex enough... Actually, don't take any of my advice. If you want readers, don't listen to me. Trust me. Because I follow my advice, and look where it got me. So just scratch this entire post... -----signature----- Life it seems will fade away Drifting further every day Getting lost within myself Nothing matters, no one else... -A Very Cool Band
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DarthBreezy Title: Retired Mos Everett Cantina Founder & JMPR Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 10/14/03 8:57pm Subject: RE: Expanding our universe.. Writing OC's and not Mary Sue
	I think we're wandering too much into the 'Mary Sue' as an idée fixe... the question is, how to give your OC's depth and writing effective OC's that are more than just window dressing... -----signature----- http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/29640754/p1 Dear Tam - an AU post ROTJ story told through the eyes of a child "It's hard, being a Jedi..." - Pem Skywalker Anywhere Is Possible
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Herman Snerd Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 10/14/03 9:20pm Subject: RE: Expanding our universe.. Writing OC's and not Mary Sue
	The real problem with Mary Sue is that her perfection is dull. Let's not compound the problem by creating characters who are imperfect, but still dull. That statement really hits the bullseye. Simply avoiding the Mary Sue qualities in writing doesn't make your character interesting. And just as importantly, interesting characters in a boring story aren't much fun to read either. IMO, the heart of any story is centered around conflict, whether internal or external. Can the hero overcome his/her inner demons to save the day or can he/she outsmart the baddie? The problem with Mary Sue is that there's never any doubt of victory, so no matter the conflict there's no tension/suspense for the reader. For the climax of the story to really work, there should be the question not only of how the hero will win but if the character can win. Consider the end to ESB. While Luke could be accused of having some Gary Stu qualities, there was definitely a question of how he was going to match up against Vader and whether he could even survive. -----signature----- Voted Dork Magazine's "Sexiest Nerd Alive" for 2008 http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb237/Snerdmania/DSCF0113.jpg
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NarundiJedi Title: FF Chapter Rep Albany, NY Registered: Oct '01	Date Posted: 10/14/03 9:43pm Subject: RE: Expanding our universe.. Writing OC's and not Mary Sue
	I'm a writer of satire here on the JC, and my strategy is to take clichés and exaggerate them or put a new twist on them. The best example I have of this is taking the wise old sage role (you know, the guy who the hero goes to for advice and as a father figure, because he has no father ) and turning him into some sick, warped, plotting old codger who loves to watch as chaos unfolds around him. Sometimes he even creates his own chaos, for entertainment. That's probably the best example I have. My other OCs are basically your normal kind of OC, without any play on a stereotype. They all have flaws, like suffocating arrogance that makes readers want to smack my male OC, or a body image crisis that makes for an insecure heroine. The most important thing to remember in a comedy is that these OCs (and the canon characters, if applicable) need to be funny. I usually make the dialogue funny, but the situations are also important. Putting characters into a situation that results in maximum discomfort is something I love doing. Call me a sadist, but it's fun. Also, try writing a plot that ends on a down note or peaks very near the end only to plummet down into a bit of a shocking ending . . . (no, I'm not foreshadowing at all . . . ) When you do that, and you really explore your OCs and their feelings as the world crumbles around them in a realistic fashion, you're probably going to come out on top with the characterization. Happy, sugary endings are harder to make work. I think it was said in Clerks that life is a series of down notes. Make sure your OC doesn't shrug off things like rape, death, bad childhood memories, rivalries, life-changing news, etc. only to bounce back in the next scene. Life changes take some getting used to. Sometimes people never get over it, or they really need someone else's help to overcome it. Ok, I gotta go to bed. Hopefully that was good enough for starters. Jae Angel -----signature----- Kill Brodey: Vol 1 - http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=17015774&replies=0 Helané, Handmaiden of the Crest Leli's Blonde Twin! I'm now Mrs. NJ! w00t!
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Bobbacca Registered: Apr '03	Date Posted: 10/15/03 8:40am Subject: RE: Expanding our universe.. Writing OC's and not Mary Sue
	Most of my OCs originated in Roleplays, which is really a form of storytelling in itself. I then go on to develop their character and then write them into a fic. One great way to make sure your characters are interesting, especially Jedi characters, is to make them exremely unlikely candidates to become Jedi, and then to explore how they overcame this and became Jedi. For instance, the main character of my current fic is a relatively open-minded Yuuzhan Vong warrior who can use the Force and eventually becomes a Jedi. Yuuzhan Vong warriors are normally very anti-Jedi, don't exist in the Force as we know it, and are anything but open-minded due to their indeoctrination. Therefore, I had to come up with an explanation as to why Charat Hul could use the Force that most of his race didn't even exist in. The answer to that problem (which I won't tell you because it would be a major spoiler for the FFA fics) helped me to come up with a good reason why this dedicated and strongly religious warrior left his people and his religion to join their sworn enemies, and presto! I suddenly have a very intersting character and plot line to write about. Another character that I plan to write about eventually is a Jedi who used to hunt Jedi and work as an Intelligence field agent for the Empire. After the Imperial Remnant and the New Republic made peace with eachother in the HoT duology, he went back to the empire to recruit and train Jedi from Imperial worlds. Again, there is an oddity that makes this character unique and interesting. He is a post-Vader Light Side Jedi who works in the Empire. I'm still working out the details on his background and trying to discover why he became a Jedi after hunting them for years during his youth, but I expect that when I finsh it will provide me with a plot bunny and a character as equally interesting as the ones I'm working with now. Both Charat Hul (the Yuuzhan Vong Jedi) and Skaph Antilles (the Imperial Jedi) are Jedi characters that are exremely unique and non-stereotypical. Both also originated in Roleplays where I was trying to come up with an intriguing character and then began to wonder how they came about. -----signature----- It's not wise to upset a wookiee www.myspace.com/wizardrockda Evac: http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=14349100&start=14583586 Seeker of Constructive Critiscism
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DarthIshtar Title: Former CR Registered: Mar '01	Date Posted: 10/15/03 9:09am Subject: RE: Expanding our universe.. Writing OC's and not Mary Sue
	I definitely agree about the prospect of negative aspects. I've dealt a lot with original characters, since my original intentions in fanfic were to take the SW universe from the point-of-view of the most unlikely heroes. My greatest success with this would have to be in Though Deepening Trials, where the only main characters involved were Yoda, Anakin Skywalker and Obiwan (both in passing rather than as a focal point). I had a couple of jedi as main characters, both strong-willed people, but one trusted too easily and one had too much inherent anger and little will-power to restrain it at times. I think when you develop these negative characteristics, the predicaments or problems to be solved by your characters will take on a lot more depth because you have to have that automatic struggle. It's kind of like Luke in ROTJ, where Vader plays on his unflagging compassion and it nearly destroys him. -----signature----- "I feel like a more down-to-earth Pink 5 when I'm writing Leah. Same attitude, less lip gloss." ~Me on how to get in the right mindset for Twilight fanfic.
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