Jedi Council Forums - The Art of Film Scoring

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Author	Topic: The Art of Film Scoring
ASOULAN Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 6/17/05 9:53pm Subject: The Art of Film Scoring
	I've truly enjoyed the response and exchange of ideas on the Art of Storytelling thread. I thought I might try to start a similar thread on another subject that I'm (hopefuly )qualified to contribute to. I know that the musical community here is quite a bit more rarified than the others, so It makes sense to try to bring us together into a convenient spot to discuss projects and exchange ideas and inspirations to enrich our community. If you're interested in this idea go ahead and lend your name to this post. Let's hear from the musicly inclined.... -----signature----- Tell your story, In your own voice.... DamnYankeeMedia.com Lurker-mode
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o8_jedi Registered: Sep '03	Date Posted: 6/17/05 10:50pm Subject: RE: The Art of Film Scoring
	I can come up with three basic rules for scoring your fanfilm with existing Star Wars music: 1) THE DESIRED EMOTIONAL RESPONSE DICTATES THE CUE. I cannot stress this enough. So many times, I have seen fanfilms where major death scenes are scored with deep, bellicose, blaring loud "Imperial March." Sometimes, a subtle cue is much much more effective. Take Knightquest as an example. 6:06 into the third part, Vader throws Kara off a cliff. This part is scored with Vader's death music from ROTJ. This kills two birds with one stone: Showing that Vader is victorious and forcing us to subconsciously think, "No!" as we see our heroine's body fall into the foggy abyss. Ideally, your selection of music should compliment the audience's emotional connections with the characters. A blaring loud "Vader" theme would have been highly inappropriate as it would destroy all that getting-to-know-Kara substance that took up a huge bulk of the film. 2) Leitmotif is your friend.. If it worked in the regular films, try to use it in your fanfilm. Leitmotif is the use of recognizable musical cues and themes to represent characters and ideas. Anyone who can hear can tell that Vader's theme is different from the Emperor's theme, which is different from Luke's theme, which is different from the Rebels' theme and that any time you hear the musical cue, you know what they're talking about or who enters the scene or who the prominent character at the moment is. For each of the principal characters, try and select a theme that best describes their character and score their important moments with that theme. Bear in mind that if you have any "canon" characters appearing onscreen, DO NOT SEPARATE THEM FROM THEIR THEME (i.e., The Emperor needs the Emperor's theme). 3) Avoid jump cuts. We've all seen a fanfilm where the music changes midphrase as the film cuts to a different locale. And we've all cringed when that moment arrives. Real film scores are NEVER like that. Music is a language unto itself. It's rude and awkward to cut a sentence off, musical or otherwise, in the middle. We are designed to notice things like that. If you find ourself in a situation that may breed a jump cut, try an audio transition like a fadeout or a crossfade. Also, it helps if your a long string of your cues are in the same key signature or follow an established standard "chord" progression. These basic rules should help you lay down an appropriate score of existing Star Wars music. Although it would be better if you have an original score, most of us do not have access to a composer, so this is the next best thing. Even if you did have an original score, these rules would still apply. Regardless, these are guidelines. We all want to be an auteur like Uncle Georgie. Sometimes, we have to break the rules to make a point. But I digress. Now that you have these guidelines, fire up those soundtracks and happy scoring! -----signature----- "Don't give in to hate; that leads to the Dark Side." -Ghost of Obi-Wan Kenobi, ESB-
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ASOULAN Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 6/18/05 2:22pm Subject: RE: The Art of Film Scoring
	All good points regardless of whether you are scoring original music or selecting existing SW music. I believe that, in the early concept stages, each character, whether a person/alien/ship/whatever, deserves it's own recognizable theme. A theme being a melody or chord progression or even a particular instrument. The style in which the theme is presented depends upon the goings-on in the finished scene. As an example: we all recognize the Imp.march as Darth's song...you hear it and you know he's lurking somwhere. He arrives on the DSII and it's presented as a loud, pompous military march. As he dies in RotJ it is presented as a soft, unaccompanied harp pluck. It's all Vader, but orchistrated to for the scene. The throne room fanfare at the end of ANH....that's Luke's theme triumphant. The same melody played by a mournful F.horn as he looks to the sunset on Tatooine...totally sets the mood there as well. Writing or selecting music is just as importaint as the actual story. It can make or break. We have to treat is as though it is just that importaint. A song plunked down in a scene because it sounded cool somwhere else will come across as just that...a song plunked down. -----signature----- Tell your story, In your own voice.... DamnYankeeMedia.com Lurker-mode
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InvictusX Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 6/18/05 8:12pm Subject: RE: The Art of Film Scoring
	Does anyone have any tips on composing more subtle pieces? I think I'm beginning to get some of the principles behind composing blatant, hit-you-over-the-head themes, but I'm pretty much lost as to the principles of composing ambient music, etc. ...and this is a thread that could be very beneficial for me so I want to keep it up near the top. -----signature----- Double Edge MD http://www.doubleedgemd.com
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ASOULAN Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 6/18/05 8:54pm Subject: RE: The Art of Film Scoring
	Okay...but if this comes out sounding spiritual and artsy-fartsy don't say i didn't warn you... Go to your DVD player and drop in a movie with a scene that fits the mood that you want to compose for. Kill all of the lights in the room and run the scene....WITH THE SOUND TURNED OFF!!!.... I'm sure you've already done your share of research (ie. watching films and paying attention to the music) so in reality everything you need is already subconciously wired into your brain. Watch this silent scene over and over again....what comes to your mind? If you're in tune with the visuals then somthing, no matter how little, will come to you. With no audio stimuli you brain will try to fill in the blanks with somthing, and if you are thinking about music then your brain will produce music. Start with a foundation of some sort. A drone...a rhythm pulse...synth pads, whatever comes to you. This will be what sets the mood of the piece. Once you have somthing base to work with...go back and watch the scene AGAIN. Keep the foundation in mind, but this time look for somthing melodic instead of rhythmic. Just keep building on it. It won't be organized or tight, most likely just a nebulous mess of audio images in your brain. And remember...you must write them down or record somthing right away so you don't forget any good bits that you came up with. I liken this technique to brainstorming a story by just writing a random list of words that evoke the mood and theme that you want to write about. It's miles from a finished copy, but it puts you in the focused and cohesive frame of mind you need to be in. Then comes the technical part.....the musical storyline and exposition. Maybe someone can pick up on this aspect, or I will later. I know this seems a bit simplistic and silly, but even someone with genious technical mastery of compositional technique will pump out uninspiring music if he doesn't establish the emotional and spiritual links ahead of time. -----signature----- Tell your story, In your own voice.... DamnYankeeMedia.com Lurker-mode
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ASOULAN Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 6/20/05 10:07pm Subject: RE: The Art of Film Scoring
	Oh boy oh boy oh boy..... Just got my new 'pooter and I'm loading up Cubase and GS3 now. Once i figure out how to use the darn thing I'll rip out some samples and find a place to load them up. Although I know there aren't alot of us composers out here, I hope this thread will take off. We really have a music shortage in fanflicks, and that's odd concidering how much a good original score can add to a story. -----signature----- Tell your story, In your own voice.... DamnYankeeMedia.com Lurker-mode
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Matt_Skywalker731 Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 6/20/05 10:11pm Subject: RE: The Art of Film Scoring
	I get my SW music from Wal-Mart.com. You can download all the Star WArs music to your PC for only 88 cents a song. I use it all the time. -----signature----- "This town ain't big enough for the two of us!" "Then I'll Just move! JEEZ!" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you call me forgetful, then you can... Uhh....what was I saying?
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ASOULAN Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 6/20/05 10:15pm Subject: RE: The Art of Film Scoring
	Funny, I'v never seen my SW music at walmart We're all about original music in here.... -----signature----- Tell your story, In your own voice.... DamnYankeeMedia.com Lurker-mode
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Matt_Skywalker731 Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 6/20/05 10:20pm Subject: RE: The Art of Film Scoring
	Hey, man...it's hard to do original music! -----signature----- "This town ain't big enough for the two of us!" "Then I'll Just move! JEEZ!" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you call me forgetful, then you can... Uhh....what was I saying?
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ASOULAN Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 6/20/05 10:23pm Subject: RE: The Art of Film Scoring
	That's why we're here to promote it -----signature----- Tell your story, In your own voice.... DamnYankeeMedia.com Lurker-mode
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pzgamer825 Registered: Jan '05	Date Posted: 6/21/05 5:40am Subject: RE: The Art of Film Scoring - Date Edited: 6/21/05 5:41am (1 edits total) Edited By: pzgamer825
	I don't know about turning the sound off on a movie... that seems slightly out there, but I would reccomend listening to other music for inspiration. Even John Williams did, and it is obvious if you listen to the Episode Three soundtrack and then "Mars" from "The Planets" by Gustav Holst. There is a very obvious link of some sort there. -----signature----- http://www.comitar.com/ I didn't like "Duality". I'm such a terrible person.
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ASOULAN Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 6/21/05 6:24am Subject: RE: The Art of Film Scoring
	I warned you it would sound kinda hokey, but it's true....the brain tries to fill in missing sensory info, and if music is on your mind music will just kind of....appear... Holst's Mars:the Bringer of War is one of my favorite pieces and has influenced ALOT of modern film music. That piece popularized the "slow brass melody over a rhythmic drone" style. Witness Babalon 5, Stargate and Poledorous' "Anvil of Crom" from the Conan movie, and countless others. It's a powerful piece to be sure and sets the mood for battle scenes very well. Actually. INVICTUSX....you should look up this Holst piece. You'll note that, even though you may have never heard it, it's influence even shows in the piece that you posted last week sometime on your thread. "Mars" is that pervasive, I love it..... PZ: as far as listening to other music for inspiration...that's the #1 key. The more "classical' (and I use that term very loosely) music you listen to the easier EVERYTHING becomes....thats the subconcious hardwiring I talked about. The wider your exposure the more tools you have to draw upon. Cheers -----signature----- Tell your story, In your own voice.... DamnYankeeMedia.com Lurker-mode
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shadow_the_rebel Registered: Feb '05	Date Posted: 6/21/05 8:44am Subject: RE: The Art of Film Scoring - Date Edited: 6/21/05 8:45am (1 edits total) Edited By: shadow_the_rebel
	I don't see why we can't talk about both, then you'll be helping a lot of people like your other thread instead of just helping a few of the other original composers. I can see why they use the Imperial March when someone is killed. They probably watched the OT and listened to what the music does when Vader kills one of the Admirals. Problem is, in the OT, we don't have a connection to the characters that Vader kills. Using the Imperial March, they are trying to show how evil the character is when instead they should be showing the sadness that this character was killed. Which will bring them to seeing how evil the character is. But it matters what the characters are. If the protagonist kills the antagonist, then you don't want the audience to feel sad. So the real question is, what do you want the audience to feel? There's really never a wrong piece to choose, just some work better than others. It's up to you to decide which kind of piece will make the most emotional impact that still fits the scene. BTW o8_jedi, great post, really helped me a lot. -----signature----- In the end, I'm forced to have people like Vaportrail, and Funk-E as my role models... Vaportrail's Rockin' Lightsaber Hilt Tutorial: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v511/Vaportrail1519/saber2.jpg
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ASOULAN Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 6/21/05 4:06pm Subject: RE: The Art of Film Scoring - Date Edited: 6/21/05 4:07pm (1 edits total) Edited By: ASOULAN
	Of course this discussion is for film music in general, whether original or not. Being a composer, my perspective is that OF a composer so thats what I tend to talk about. All of the principals are the same though. Someone selecting music has to take the same things into concideration as a composer would to put together a story in audio. What feelings do you want to portray ? (hopefuly the same as the storywriter heh...) and what techniques and styles should we use (or select) to do that. Does the music that you've written or selected fit the pacing of the scene...the mood...the theme...the action....the intended effect. Does it COMPLIMENT the other aspects of the film...ie dialogue, cinematography, scenery or does it detract from these other elements. The scenes where Vader plays Darwin with his admirals is a scene about Vader, not about his officers, so it gets a variation on HIS theme. From the view of the storyteller, those officers weren't really characters at all....just plot devices to show Vader's short fuse. Had they been well developed characters that the audience would empathise with then yes...the Ozzel theme plucked by a harp would have been very effective. But...uncle George didn't write it that way so neither did JW. One thing I do have to disagree with is that there's never really a wrong piece to choose. For every perfect scene setting piece there are numerous other pieces that would distract from or, even I dare say, ruin the worlds most perfectly crafted scene. If the music doesn't support what the writer / director / whoever is portraying then it is simply a song for the sake of having a song...and that is really the wrong piece to choose. -----signature----- Tell your story, In your own voice.... DamnYankeeMedia.com Lurker-mode
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wcleere Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 6/21/05 4:38pm Subject: RE: The Art of Film Scoring
	Does anyone have any tips on composing more subtle pieces? One of the first tricks in composing subtle pieces for film is to keep your music in a lower register. Check out "Palaptine's Teachings" from the ROTS CD and you'll get a good example of that. Now that piece is extremely low, however its a good place to start. Another thing you might try is constructing your melody around the dialogue (if there is any). For example, let's say you're using strings, you hold a 3 or four note chord while a line of dialogue is being spoken. Then when there is a pause, 2 or three notes to a new chord set. If done well, this can go a long way toward tying your scene together musically without hitting anyone over the head with melody. Hope that makes sense. -----signature----- Creator of The AMC acclaimed "Greedo Shoots First" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0Asjh-HjRE www.williamcleere.net
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ASOULAN Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 6/21/05 4:48pm Subject: RE: The Art of Film Scoring - Date Edited: 6/21/05 5:18pm (1 edits total) Edited By: ASOULAN
	Well said Wcleere. Just to add abit to that...when there is a pause in the dialogue as one person thinks about what the last person just said...perfect time for a little melodic motif, preferably one that the audience has heard earlier and would relate to what was going on when they first heard it. If it was used to help establish a mood earlier on the listener will subconciously recall that mood again. **Another thought on this. Music under dialogue tends to be (unless there's a good reason) sparsely orchistrated with notes spread wide. A tight chord stack has a dense feel to it and can easily become obtrusive...especially in a quiet scene. Space your chord voicings wider and you avoid this. You also maintain the individual identity of each note and instrument, allowing you to add those little motifs and have them be heard without raising their voice so to speak. -----signature----- Tell your story, In your own voice.... DamnYankeeMedia.com Lurker-mode
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