Jedi Council Forums - Dune's influence on Star Wars

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Author	Topic: Dune's influence on Star Wars
Latorski Registered: Dec '02	Date Posted: 6/17/03 11:13pm Subject: Dune's influence on Star Wars - Date Edited: 5/29/05 4:52pm (2 edits total) Edited By: -_-_-_-_-_-
	I'm a big fan of both series. I know Frank Herbert felt Lucas "borrowed heavily" from Dune in creating SW. There are several loose parallels. I'll list the ones I can think of right now. 1. a desert planet (Tatooine/ Arrakis) 2. evil Empire and Emperor (Palpatine/ Shaddam) 3. presence of a quasi-religious order that possess almost supernatural powers (Jedi/ Bene Gesserit) 4. the Empire's crack troops (stormtroopers/ sardaukar) are eventually defeated by a primitive force (Ewoks/Fremen) led by the hero and friends 5. presence of a flamboyant, grotesquely malformed villain (Darth Vader/ Baron Harkonnen) who kills the hero's father-figure (Ben Kenobi/ Duke Leto) but also turns out to be related to the hero 6. hero (Luke/ Paul) is a young man with messianic qualities 7. a corrupt government that panders to special interests is replaced by a brutal totalitarian dictatorship I can think of a few others. What do you guys think? Can you think of any more parallels?
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1BAT4U Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 6/18/03 12:03am Subject: RE: Dune's influence on Star Wars
	Well, it's a stretch, but - The hero (Leto II/Luke) has a twin sister who is supernaturally gifted as well. - The hero (Paul/Anakin) become the antagonist. - The hero-cum-antogonist (Paul/Anakin) sacrifices himself to redeem himself. - The Children of the Antagonist (Leto II/Luke) redeem the evil of their forebears. - The antagonists (Alia/Anakin) have mother issues regarding abandonment. - Conformity brings about suffering (The Atriedes Jihad/The Empire). Yeah, George is pretty much the most derivitive story teller today. It's kinda sad how few realize this.
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vw_jedi Registered: Feb '02	Date Posted: 6/18/03 6:39am Subject: RE: Dune's influence on Star Wars - Date Edited: 6/18/03 6:51am (2 edits total) Edited By: vw_jedi
	there is a web site that goes into this in detail. i'm going to try to remember it and post it. you guys seem to have covered alot though but i'll give it a whirl: cloning - dune: tleilaxu SW: kamino spice - dune: psychic abilities, prolonged life SW: in EU SW also gives some psychic ability crysknife/ lightsaber -dune: the crysknife was an ancient sacred weapon used by paul atredies SW: lightsaber was an ancient, basicly, sacred weapon used by luke/anakin skywalker jedi/ bene geserit, ginaz sword masters, fremen - i think that an elements from all three of those dune groups can be found in the jedi: bene geserit-train from birth, use the "voice" which resembles the jedi mind trick, are a secretive sect with advanced fighting skills, are also psychic, advise rulers of houses. ginaz sword masters- also train to fight for many years. are military leaders in some houses and adviser to the house rulers. fremen- secretive, train to fight from birth and use the crysknife which is an ancient weapon resembling in some ways the skill needed to weild a lightsaber. also here's a kind of far fetched one. but concerning precience which could be realted to the force in a way. alia falls pray to the power of precience and becomes "abomination" or possesed. this could almost be compared to falling to the dark side. especially in the way she falls considering she was using the spice trance to help her keep an edge in ruling the empire. it is almost like taking the quick and easy path which leads to the darkside. VW -----signature----- "Chancellor Palpatine, Sith Lords are our spe-ci-ality." - Obi-Wan Kenobi
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Latorski Registered: Dec '02	Date Posted: 6/18/03 8:09am Subject: RE: Dune's influence on Star Wars
	Those are good ones. Here's a real stretch that was probably unintentional: the hero (Luke/ Paul) has a charasmatic warrior friend (Han Solo/ Duncan Idaho) who "dies" and returns to marry the hero's sister
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vw_jedi Registered: Feb '02	Date Posted: 6/18/03 8:21am Subject: RE: Dune's influence on Star Wars
	i agree, duncan is definatly the "han solo" of dune. could chani be considered the amidala? she is the wife/consort of paul. paul resembles anakin due to the "chosen one" status that he has. chani gives birth to the twins and also dies which is part of the downfall of paul. i think that perhaps the death or presumed death of amidala could be one of the factors of anakins downfall. we shall see... -----signature----- "Chancellor Palpatine, Sith Lords are our spe-ci-ality." - Obi-Wan Kenobi
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Darth-Seldon Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 6/18/03 9:28am Subject: RE: Dune's influence on Star Wars
	It is sad to see how many places Lucas gets his story from. Mythology Fairy Tale Dune Asimov/Robot/Foundation classic Films Eastern influence Historical events other science fiction novels He sort of blends all of them together but most of his ideas in Star Wars do not belong to him, he was not the first to think of them. -----signature----- Isaac Asimov was an innovative genius All posters are equal but some posters are more equal than others. JOE BIDEN 2012
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Latorski Registered: Dec '02	Date Posted: 6/18/03 9:54am Subject: RE: Dune's influence on Star Wars - Date Edited: 6/18/03 10:04am (1 edits total) Edited By: Latorski
	Good point about Chani and Amidala! It is sad to see how many places Lucas gets his story from. He sort of blends all of them together but most of his ideas in Star Wars do not belong to him, he was not the first to think of them. SW is indeed derivative, but so is almost everything else. True, Lucas has borrowed ideas but he's also done a very good job of blending elements together to create a wonderful story and universe.
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Darth-Seldon Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 6/18/03 10:13am Subject: RE: Dune's influence on Star Wars
	I give lucas credit for how he blends everything. He is not like JK Rowling who does not even try to hide where she gets her material for example the whole Larry Potter Harry Potter thing. Lucas does a great job of blending and hiding ideas from others. -----signature----- Isaac Asimov was an innovative genius All posters are equal but some posters are more equal than others. JOE BIDEN 2012
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LucasCop Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 6/18/03 1:57pm Subject: RE: Dune's influence on Star Wars
	It is sad to see how many places Lucas gets his story from. Yeah....how sad.......I mean.......I enjoyed myths and sagas my whole life until reading your post. Now I get the feeling that all stories are derived from external elements. Thanks a lot, George.........I'm through with Star Wars........Better yet....I'll stick solely to non-fiction from now on. Life is more entertaining than fiction anyway.....right? Shizzz.... -----signature----- Enforcer of sanity amongst Star Wars Bashers and Gushers alike. Lucas' net officer for the preservation of Star Wars integrity.
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Latorski Registered: Dec '02	Date Posted: 6/18/03 7:44pm Subject: RE: Dune's influence on Star Wars
	Maybe this one doesn't really count. The Trade Federation, Banker's Union, etc always reminded me a little of CHOAM and the Guild Bank. Of course, their actions in SW are different from those of their Dune counterparts.
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1BAT4U Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 6/18/03 11:42pm Subject: RE: Dune's influence on Star Wars
	Well, not really, if you think about it. In AOTC (and likely EPIII), the Banking Guild, Trade Federation, etc . . . are all working against an evil totalitarian government body. The only difference between that and the Spacing Guild and CHOAM is that in Star Wars Dooku's character is kind of a saboteur for the movement, whereas DUNE has no such character. Proud members of the Cult of Lucas just have trouble adjusting to the reality of Lucas' derivitivity. But they can always say "All things are derivitive," or, "You just don't get it," or, "It's George's story, accept it!" I have to assume that it's either witchery or insanity that keeps them mumbling their mantras like they do. And Duncan Idaho rocks the hizzy. And so do all his gholas.
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1BAT4U Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 6/18/03 11:51pm Subject: RE: Dune's influence on Star Wars
	The problem I have is not really people not accepting Lucas' derisiveness, it's their attitude that what ever Lucas does is new or revolutionary. If you enjoy something, by all means continue enjoying it. But don't belittle the educated who see the pedigree and history of the foundation which upon Lucas stole many of his story elements. I think I'm going to make a movie called "Transformation," and it's gonna be about this guy who turns into a moth. A completely CG moth. That has long soliloquies about the nature of existance. And then he'll fight an army of all-CG spiders with pitchforks at the end. All will call me genius. And apparently no one will get the joke.
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vw_jedi Registered: Feb '02	Date Posted: 6/19/03 7:19am Subject: RE: Dune's influence on Star Wars
	not to start an EU discussion, but i did happen to notice that the whole story arc in new jedi order concerning the yuzon vong taking the galaxy system by system is pretty similar to what happens in dune 5 and 6. in heretics of dune and chapter house dune the honored matres come from out side the known universe and begin taking over system by system. in a very similar manner also. they also have strange technology and make slaves out of those people/planets they capture. i guess the major difference being that the honored matres are from the same galaxy to begin with but left during the scattering, whereas the vong are from another galaxy altogether. so far as i know that is. -----signature----- "Chancellor Palpatine, Sith Lords are our spe-ci-ality." - Obi-Wan Kenobi
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Obi-Ewan Registered: Jan '00	Date Posted: 6/19/03 2:36pm Subject: RE: Dune's influence on Star Wars
	Let's not forget that David Lynch turned down the opportunity to direct Return of the Jedi so that he could make Dune. -----signature----- "I am very concerned about our national heritage, and I am very concerned that the films that I watched when I was young and the films that I watched throughout my life are preserved, so that my children can see them." --George Lucas
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Obi-Ewan Registered: Jan '00	Date Posted: 6/21/03 10:17am Subject: RE: Dune's influence on Star Wars
	Also, the Sarlacc isn't all that different from the spice worm. -----signature----- "I am very concerned about our national heritage, and I am very concerned that the films that I watched when I was young and the films that I watched throughout my life are preserved, so that my children can see them." --George Lucas
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Spike_Spiegel Title: Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 6/21/03 12:25pm Subject: RE: Dune's influence on Star Wars
	Yes Lucas is derivative, but so was Herbert. The reason why so many of these space fantasies look so similar (Foundation, Dune, SW, ect) is that they all draw into the same heroic, epic mythos to create their stories and characters. Im am not saying that Lucas didn't take things directly from Dune, I am saying that perhaps many of these similarities stem from this mythos rather than actual "copying." -----signature----- The World According to Geek An online comic strip http://www.twatgeek.com http://www.myspace.com/theworldaccordingtogeek Updated every Sunday!
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