Jedi Council Forums - Gauging some opinions regarding unique OC's and Mary Sue.

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Author	Topic: Gauging some opinions regarding unique OC's and Mary Sue.
SyndicMitthrawn Registered: Sep '08	Date Posted: 10/2/08 9:50pm Subject: Gauging some opinions regarding unique OC's and Mary Sue.
	I'm in the process of writing my first story and I'm making an OC that I intend to be a big part of the story. I'm obviously going out of my way to avoid a Mary Sue, but I seem to be at an impasse. I want my character to have a unique skill, though this skill will not win the day, one-shot bad guys, or make 10 Death Stars explode. I want to set him apart, but would readers take unique qualities and automatically place the character into the Mary Sue category or would they first see how they actually affect the story? An example, would being a good swordsman be a Mary Sue quality or would being a swordsman who decapitates Vader and Dooku in one swing do it? A part of me feels I know the answer to this, but the fact is I have no point of reference since I've never written a fanfic (or a story) before so I want to gauge some opinions on the matter. Thanks. (And yes, I did that Mary Sue test...mine scored a 7, but I was shooting for 0)
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The_Face Title: Ex-Manager Registered: Feb '03	Date Posted: 10/2/08 10:01pm Subject: RE: Gauging some opinions regarding unique OC's and Mary Sue.
	I don't have much time, so I'll try to return to address the other points, but I just wanna say one thing at the moment. My advice would be not to worry too much about avoiding Mary Sue-ism. Essentially every character has some aspect that could be called a characteristic of a Mary Sue. It's only when a lot of them combine that a character is in jeopardy. The thing is, MS can be annoying. But going too far out of your way to avoid MS at all costs can be damaging too. If you limit yourself in doing something that otherwise feels right just because you're worried it might be Mary Sue-ish, it may hurt the character. I think there's some Jedi phrase about fear, and not letting it control you. And while I've a feeling it was meant for heavier life choices, it applies to fiction writing too. The above has been IMHOTBQHQFTNSFWNSWFF -----signature----- "Writing is a socially acceptable form of schizophrenia." - E.L. Doctorow
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SyndicMitthrawn Registered: Sep '08	Date Posted: 10/2/08 10:07pm Subject: RE: Gauging some opinions regarding unique OC's and Mary Sue.
	Thanks for the quick reply. Didn't expect one as I checked before bed. I wasn't sure if being paranoid about MS qualities would be a bad thing as well, but it's nice hearing that from someone else. My character will have MS'ish qualities it seems, but if the existence of a few won't ruin the character, then that's good to know.
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Jedi Trace Title: • SouthEast RSA • FanFiction Manager Registered: Dec '99	Date Posted: 10/2/08 10:47pm Subject: RE: Gauging some opinions regarding unique OC's and Mary Sue. - Date Edited: 10/2/08 10:51pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Jedi Trace
	I'll agree with Face in that worrying too much about MS might do you more harm than good. This is just my opinion, but I think we tend to place too much importance on the concept of MS. If you go back to the origin of good ol' Mary, the key phrases are "wish-fulfillment" and "self-insertion" on behalf of the author. That's an over-simplification, but I've seen very few protagonists around here who actually fit the MS criteria. Granted, we don't want to create characters who are too good to be true (unless it's a parody or somehow otherwise relevant to the story), but there is nothing wrong with creating an OC who has a particular or special skill...unless, of course, that character happens to look exactly like the author and uses the skill to woo another character who just happens to have the same name as the guy/girl who turned the author down for the senior prom. Here's another recent thread on the topic. -----signature----- "Laughter, like love, has power to survive the worst things life has to offer." - Harry Dresden
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ZaraValinor Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 10/2/08 11:45pm Subject: RE: Gauging some opinions regarding unique OC's and Mary Sue.
	What The Face said is true. You don't want to add a character to the story who is generally pointless to the story and just as a person. You certainly wouldn't want joe normal walking into star wars and really have nothing to contribute. A good rule of thumb I use is for everything that seems great about a character (you used the ability to lop off Vader or Dooku's head} there's got to be a fault to go along with it. A good example would be the Hulk. He's freakin' strong, perhaps the strongest (physcially) Marvel character, but to get that strength he has to become this out of control monster. For me, it really isn't what the character can do, but what he/she does do and the emotional backwash of those choices he/she makes. A Mary Sue, wouldn't have those reprecussions. They walk in and fix all the problems without breaking a sweat and everything becomes sunshine and roses. Sorry, I may be a bit repetitive here, but if want any more help don't hesitate to ask. -----signature----- Proud Master to Meredith_Kenobi & Lolly_Tolly "He full-on Obi-Wan'd me!" Dean Winchester - Supernatural
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Luton_Plunder Registered: Jun '06	Date Posted: 10/3/08 5:43am Subject: RE: Gauging some opinions regarding unique OC's and Mary Sue.
	While I don't really have anything to add, the Essential Guide to OCs has been discussing this very topic for the last few pages. It could definitely help out There's lots of good OC writers around these boards who are more than willing to help out. -----signature----- The Essential Guide to OCs. Say No to Mary. http://boards.theforce.net/fan_fiction_resource/b10304/25562370/p1
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NYCitygurl Title: Manager of SFFBC, C&G, NSWFF, and Icons Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 10/3/08 7:11am Subject: RE: Gauging some opinions regarding unique OC's and Mary Sue.
	The_Face posted: The above has been IMHOTBQHQFTNSFWNSWFF You just strung together every abbreviation you could think of, didn't you I fourth (I think fourth?) the don't worry too much thing. Everyone has some skill that can set them apart (whether it's amazing TK powers, mad lightsaber skillz, or being able to roll coins across their fingers). A story about a mundane, average person would be very interesting like others have said, it's more abotu not inserting yourself. A Mary Sue is a great Jedi and an amazing pilot and gets Luke Skywalker to fall madly in love with her and defeats numerous personal issues and kills the emperor and is best friends with Leia and has guys falling all over her. But one or two of those things does not a Mary sue make. -----signature----- I agree with RJ Officially Idri's Muse I approve of Qui-Gon_Reborn's sig
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Seremela Registered: Jul '08	Date Posted: 10/3/08 8:23am Subject: RE: Gauging some opinions regarding unique OC's and Mary Sue.
	ZaraValinor posted: What The Face said is true. You don't want to add a character to the story who is generally pointless to the story and just as a person. You certainly wouldn't want joe normal walking into star wars and really have nothing to contribute. I actually think that that's the main thing. Your character has to contribute something to the story, has to have a reason to be in it. Does he/she move the plot along? Build in extra tension maybe that makes the story more interesting? Those kind of things. I think that as long as the story itself comes first and not the 'greatness' of the character you probably won't go wrong. -----signature----- Winner of WWTF round 2
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dianethx Registered: Mar '02	Date Posted: 10/3/08 9:18am Subject: RE: Gauging some opinions regarding unique OC's and Mary Sue.
	You are actually asking 2 questions here. Most have addressed the first. But you also have to make your character believable. Decapitating Vader and Dooku in one swing (did you mean both at the same time?) is really on the edge of believability (even if he's killing them separately). We would have to be drawn into a scene where it is possible. After all, even Anakin had a difficult time with Dooku on ROTS (in the book, Dooku was playing with him most of the time so he didn't really take Anakin seriously until it was too late) and Yoda didn't defeat Dooku, either. Vader was going around killing Jedi who were swordsmen as well. When you are making your character so brilliant a swordsman that he's greater than all of them, that's the time to rethink. Maybe tone it down a bit. Otherwise, people may react to the character as a Mary Sue. -----signature----- Betrayal - http://boards.theforce.net/s/b1/10935143 updated 11/2/09 jedidas3's Master Merlin - Diplomatic Immunity - http://boards.theforce.net/nswff/b10808/30459852
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correllian_ale Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 10/3/08 4:22pm Subject: RE: Gauging some opinions regarding unique OC's and Mary Sue.
	First off, I'm gonna' mirror EVERYTHING dianethx said about believability. I know it sounds silly in the context of sci-fi where you're supposed to suspend belief, but you have to be realistic to the realm itself. But as far as everyone else has stated, don't give a sheb about what others think, as they pretty much said: write what seems enjoyable to you. The discussion Luton had been referring to was little more than a way to point out that NO new character is Mary-Sue free, and that it's more important to make the character believable and well written. that's it. that's all you should worry about. As far as Face's IMHOTBQHQFTNSFWNSWFF; that's advice you live by my friend. -----signature----- Consider this my "throw back" jersey... I govern my life around my own personal code of ethics, and I suggest that you do the same.
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Katana_Geldar Title: Former CR Tasmania, AU RPG & Minis Saga GM Registered: Mar '03	Date Posted: 10/3/08 6:36pm Subject: RE: Gauging some opinions regarding unique OC's and Mary Sue.
	I agree with a lot of the people on here, you should never let anything get in the way of the writing process. I always view characters as rather organic, things you can change like everything else in a story. Your fic needs to be written so you can work on it and shape it. And Mary Sue litmus tests are only a guide, try putting Luke Skywalker on there. -----signature----- Jacen and the two Vergeres http://gmgeldar.wordpress.com/vergere-essay/ Now, if you don't mind, I am somewhat preoccoupied telling the laws of physics to shut up and sit down.
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SyndicMitthrawn Registered: Sep '08	Date Posted: 10/3/08 9:57pm Subject: RE: Gauging some opinions regarding unique OC's and Mary Sue.
	dianethx posted: You are actually asking 2 questions here. Most have addressed the first. But you also have to make your character believable. Decapitating Vader and Dooku in one swing (did you mean both at the same time?) is really on the edge of believability (even if he's killing them separately). We would have to be drawn into a scene where it is possible. After all, even Anakin had a difficult time with Dooku on ROTS (in the book, Dooku was playing with him most of the time so he didn't really take Anakin seriously until it was too late) and Yoda didn't defeat Dooku, either. Vader was going around killing Jedi who were swordsmen as well. When you are making your character so brilliant a swordsman that he's greater than all of them, that's the time to rethink. Maybe tone it down a bit. Otherwise, people may react to the character as a Mary Sue. Work work work work....can finally get on the internet! But my reference to Vader/Dooku was an exaggeration. I don't plan on making a character that good....unless I do a fanfic of Chuck Norris going to a galaxy far far away Also, thanks for the replies and advice everyone. This is a very helpful forum
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Earthknight Registered: Oct '02	Date Posted: 10/5/08 1:31am Subject: RE: Gauging some opinions regarding unique OC's and Mary Sue.
	Just make your OC is a complete utter failure in life and make sure he/she fails many times. There you go. That's how you avoid a mary sue. Make them all losers which is very easy. -----signature----- Master to jacensolofangirl2007 Our philosophy: We strive for a 100 in awesomeness. And if we get a 90, it's still cool. ~My Fanfiction Stories~ The Guardians of Light- http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=259245
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