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Topic:
Why was AOTC not loved by the public and media?
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Sith_Sensei__Prime
Registered:
May '00
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Date Posted:
12/9/04 3:32pm
Subject:
RE: Why was AOTC not loved by the public and media?
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^
Odd, I didn't see all those things in [i]Episode II[/b]. I did see Anakin slice and dice a Tusken Raider; defy the Jedi Order and get married; act arrogant and self involved (and not in a good way).
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Obi_Frans
Registered:
Jul '03
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Date Posted:
12/9/04 3:39pm
Subject:
RE: Why was AOTC not loved by the public and media?
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Thats odd indeed
I could swear at one point, Obi-Wans arm and leg were severly sliced up - and then Dooku raised his saber and thrust it downward
And i could swear i could hear someone screaming, jump from one corner of the room to the other from a sitting position, manage to ignite his saber and block Dookus attempt
Damn, where did i see all of that i wonder?
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"He only wanted to save them. Padme, from death. Obi-Wan, from ignorance
But they failed to recognize his power. Instead, Padme was dead & Obi-Wan was running for his life
As stripped of everything as Vader was. Without friends, family, purpose"
- Vader
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Darth_Smileyface
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
12/9/04 3:55pm
Subject:
RE: Why was AOTC not loved by the public and media?
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I agree with the original poster. AOTC was not a very good film. I liked it (not loved it) because I'm a SW fan, but it wasn't a good movie. And it doesn't appear that the casula movie goer was overly impressed with it. Whether or not they hated it, I don't know...
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Sith_Sensei__Prime
Registered:
May '00
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Date Posted:
12/9/04 5:07pm
Subject:
RE: Why was AOTC not loved by the public and media?
- Date Edited:
12/9/04 5:26pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Sith_Sensei__Prime
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Yeah, I might have seen Anakin battle with Dooku, but I didn't see ALL that stuff like "Winning the Boonta Eve" and "Destroying the TF Control Ship" with in the context of Episode II. Totally odd that I missed this in AOTC.
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Dubbed "Paige I have More Porn Than Hustler" of the Knights of the JCC Sarcasm Table
Master Baitor
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Tyranus_the_Hutt
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
12/9/04 5:57pm
Subject:
RE: Why was AOTC not loved by the public and media?
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You have to understand, although you don't have to accept, the fact that these "Star Wars" pictures are designed to present character and plot arcs over the trajectory of 3-6 films. I actually like it that way; many do not. That is their concern, not mine. People forget that these films are not exactly 'Dreyer' material. If you want deep, involved, probing, psychological detail, go and watch "Ordet". Who actually attends a "Star Wars" film for psychological insight? I am more or less content that Lucas has given these characters an attribute or two and then moved on from there. It's very convenient for people to overlook the lack of character depth in the OT as well. The last time I checked, Luke, Han Solo, and Princess Leia were not particularly interesting characters. They were well played and I liked them, but basically 2-dimensional. Hmmmmmm.......
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"The screen is a magic medium. It has such power that it can retain interest as it conveys emotions and moods that no other art form can hope to tackle." - Stanley Kubrick
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Darth_Mimic
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
12/9/04 7:21pm
Subject:
RE: Why was AOTC not loved by the public and media?
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Well, we know Anakin had to save Obi Wan from falling to his death (thanks, Xam) and from a nest of Gundarks (according to himself). He does do a few heroic things... he's just not always... nice about it.
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"I thought I was the Boy Scout." (Superman)
Truth is the most valuable thing we have. (Twain)
"Get this cheese to sickbay." (Voyager)
Lieutanant, Imperial Squadron, TPMDF
It's my rapper name. (N. Portman)
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openmind
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
12/9/04 7:47pm
Subject:
RE: Why was AOTC not loved by the public and media?
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Don't forget the "aim right above the fuel cells!". He got a commendation from Obi Wan 
Also that he (and of course others facing sure death in the arena), went along with the "we will not be hostages to be bartered with" Imagine, Anakin saying "my give up!" 
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Lucas pays off the most elaborate setup in film history. He succeeds so completely that anybody who doesn't just love movies but the movies will find reason for celebration—with or without Ewoks.
"ROTS" rewards all of the exposition of I and II
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Obi_Frans
Registered:
Jul '03
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Date Posted:
12/10/04 2:28am
Subject:
RE: Why was AOTC not loved by the public and media?
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Yeah, I might have seen Anakin battle with Dooku, but I didn't see ALL that stuff like "[i]Winning the Boonta Eve" and "Destroying the TF Control Ship" with in the context of Episode II. Totally odd that I missed this in AOTC.
I never said he did that in Episode II
Someone simply asked which HEROIC things ANAKIN has done, and forgive if i'm mistaken - but that IS Anakin who does those things, right?
Going after Obi-Wan in the Coruscant chase
Jumping out of his speeder in the middle of Coruscant
Freeing his mother from her bonds (no matter what he did afterwards, that was heroic)
Attempting to save Obi-Wan (might've failed horribly, but it was heroic)
Saving Padme in the arena
"aim right above the fuel cells"
Saving Obi-Wan from Dooku
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"He only wanted to save them. Padme, from death. Obi-Wan, from ignorance
But they failed to recognize his power. Instead, Padme was dead & Obi-Wan was running for his life
As stripped of everything as Vader was. Without friends, family, purpose"
- Vader
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nathanelm
Registered:
Sep '01
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Date Posted:
12/10/04 2:35am
Subject:
RE: Why was AOTC not loved by the public and media?
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Green_Destiny_Sword said:Nathanelm—I have read the last 4 pages and you make excellent arguments. You are very skilled at making reasoned arguments. I completely agree with your points.
Thanks for your kind words. I'm glad to see that not only am I not seen as a basher (which I'm not), but there is someone that actually agrees with me.
(Sorry I was off for 4 days, BTW.)
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Sith_Sensei__Prime
Registered:
May '00
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Date Posted:
12/10/04 11:26am
Subject:
RE: Why was AOTC not loved by the public and media?
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I understand that these "Star Wars" pictures, in particular, the prequels, are designed to present characters and plot arcs over three films. That being said, it's not that far off to say that the it leaves each individual film fragmented. I don't agree that Luke, Han and Leia were two dimensional and not particulary interesting. Afterall, it was those characters that launched the phenomenon.
Anakin may done those thing in The Phantom Menace, but this is an Attack of the Clones thread, right?
Jumping out of his speer in the middles of Coruscant was hated by Kenobi. Addtionally, those types of actions Obi-Wan noted, "May be the death of me."
Freeing his mother and having an emotional attachment is against the Jedi Order. Additionally, it was defiant of the Obi-Wan's orders which was to stay on Naboo and protect the queen.
Anakin seem bent on avenging the Jedi killed by Dooku, as he said as much. If he was truly heroic, Anakin would have worked together as Obi-Wan instructed to attack Dooku, much like Kenobi and Qui Gon did against Darth Maul, instead of just charging him. Anakin paid the price for his insolence and arrogance by losing his hand.
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--Skywalker--
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
12/10/04 1:18pm
Subject:
RE: Why was AOTC not loved by the public and media?
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Why was AOTC not loved by the public and media?
Because Hollywood is corrupt. When Hollywood has a problem, the world has a problem. Therefore, the world is corrupt as well
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"What have I done?"
"You're fulfilling Your destiny, Anakin"
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Obi_Frans
Registered:
Jul '03
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Date Posted:
12/10/04 1:51pm
Subject:
RE: Why was AOTC not loved by the public and media?
- Date Edited:
12/10/04 1:52pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Obi_Frans
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Jumping out of his speer in the middles of Coruscant was hated by Kenobi. Addtionally, those types of actions Obi-Wan noted, "May be the death of me."
Freeing his mother and having an emotional attachment is against the Jedi Order. Additionally, it was defiant of the Obi-Wan's orders which was to stay on Naboo and protect the queen.
Anakin seem bent on avenging the Jedi killed by Dooku, as he said as much. If he was truly heroic, Anakin would have worked together as Obi-Wan instructed to attack Dooku, much like Kenobi and Qui Gon did against Darth Maul, instead of just charging him. Anakin paid the price for his insolence and arrogance by losing his hand.
So "heroic" actions only apply from the perspective of the Jedi?
Kenobi is the standard who decides what is heroic or not?
Anakin freed his mother, made her complete - he allowed her to die, much like Luke does to Vader - that was all wrong because it went against the Jedis order?
Kenobi also didn't believe in Lukes belief that Anakin could be turned - so i guess that whole redeeming part wasn't heroic to you...
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"He only wanted to save them. Padme, from death. Obi-Wan, from ignorance
But they failed to recognize his power. Instead, Padme was dead & Obi-Wan was running for his life
As stripped of everything as Vader was. Without friends, family, purpose"
- Vader
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Sith_Sensei__Prime
Registered:
May '00
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Date Posted:
12/10/04 3:09pm
Subject:
RE: Why was AOTC not loved by the public and media?
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So are you saying that going against the Jedi Order and being insolent and arrogant heroic?
If the Jedi aren't the good guys, who are?
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Dubbed "Paige I have More Porn Than Hustler" of the Knights of the JCC Sarcasm Table
Master Baitor
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Obi_Frans
Registered:
Jul '03
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Date Posted:
12/10/04 3:25pm
Subject:
RE: Why was AOTC not loved by the public and media?
- Date Edited:
12/10/04 3:26pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Obi_Frans
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The Jedi are the good guys, they're blinded by their own attachment to their code and generally in the force - but they are the good guys, yes....
....but they are not a red line that outlines whats heroic and whats not.
To say Anakin wasn't heroic in going after his mother - is, as a human, just pretty weird to me.
He wasn't being a perfect Jedi - but he was being a perfect son and saviourto his mother.
She was suffering, and he literally freed her bonds, he completed her and she could finally escape her sufferings and die (again, much like Luke does to Anakin in RotJ).
You're actually telling me that wasn't heroic?
And again, was Luke being heroic by choosing to believe in Anakin instead of his mentor? Yes or no...
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"He only wanted to save them. Padme, from death. Obi-Wan, from ignorance
But they failed to recognize his power. Instead, Padme was dead & Obi-Wan was running for his life
As stripped of everything as Vader was. Without friends, family, purpose"
- Vader
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Sith_Sensei__Prime
Registered:
May '00
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Date Posted:
12/10/04 3:56pm
Subject:
RE: Why was AOTC not loved by the public and media?
- Date Edited:
12/10/04 4:14pm (8 edits total)
Edited By:
Sith_Sensei__Prime
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Being a good son isn't quite the same thing as destroying the Death Star or defeating an Evil Emperor. Moreover, being a good son is a common and daily event. Besides, he failed and then took out his anger on Tusken Raiders... not just the men, but the women and children too. He slaughter them like animals. Since when is it heroic to fail?
The Jedi Code was designed to prevent Padawans from slaughting, as the Force should only be use for defense and knowledge. Never attack. That sounds like a pretty good redline to me.
Kenobi wanted Luke to face Darth Vader in Return of the Jedi. Luke did.
We'll see that Obi-Wan will try and bring back Anakin from the Dark Side in the next episode but only fail. With that experience in mind, Kenobi felt Vader was more machine than man, twisted and evil. Even Vader said the name Anakin had no meaning. From Obi-Wan's point of view, he gave Luke the best advice possible, as the good man that was once his father no longer exists.
And again, was Luke being heroic by choosing to believe in Anakin instead of his mentor? Yes or no...
No. Luke was heroic because he did not give into his hate and anger, like Anakin did to the Tusken Raiders. Luke is heroic because he followed the Jedi Code, the redline that outlines whats heroic and whats not.
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Dubbed "Paige I have More Porn Than Hustler" of the Knights of the JCC Sarcasm Table
Master Baitor
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