Jedi Council Forums - **Official** Love Story discussion thread.

Jedi Council Forums » Star Wars Films » Attack of the Clones »

Locked Topic | Read Only Topic | Previous Active Topic | Next Active Topic

« 342 | 343 | 344 | 345 | 346 | 347 | 348 | 349 | 350 | 351 » - Previous | Next | Reload

Author	Topic: Official Love Story discussion thread.
Falls_the_Shadow Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 9/29/02 9:57am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Obi-Can, Obi-Wan's only training fault in my mind is that he cares too much. He doesn't see the amount of anger and resentment that Anakin is hiding. He is like many parents, we love our kids so we tend to overlook/not see a major problem until it explodes in our face. I agree. The indifferent JC doesn't give Obi-Wan, the young knight, the support that he needed. Even Yoda would have been tested by such an unusual and strong padawan. I think Obi-Wan is more accepting of Padme and Anakin than has been suggested. After the "put the ship down" episode, he knows how serious the bond is. Obi-Wan might spend 20 years kicking himself for not stopping the bond and only when Luke shows up he might start to forgive himself. Obi-Wan's reaction to the budding Ani/Ami relationship is in character and was credible. McGregor caught the mixed emotions in his voice and then Obi quickly changes the subject. Anakin is the closest thing to a son Obi-Wan has. The destruction of that parental bond is the other sad love story of the PT. Obi-Wan will be heartbroken when he must cross swords with Anakin in Ep. III. After all Anakin has done and will do in Ep. III, Obi-Wan's decision to accept Luke shows how much he still cared for the lost Anakin. I seem to be in the minority as one who is attached to both characters: Obi-Wan and Anakin. Obi-Wan, I love for the quiet, heartbroken, courage and Anakin I love despite his heartbreaking flaws because he had a bright promise he might have fulfilled. Each has strengths and weaknesses that call to mind the moral trials and human frailities we all encounter. -----signature----- Between the idea / and the reality / Between the motion / and the act Falls the Shadow (T.S. Eliot)
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
anakin_girl Title: Founding Member & Retired FF CR Charlotte , NC Registered: Oct '00	Date Posted: 9/29/02 10:11am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread. - Date Edited: 9/29/02 10:22am (1 edits total) Edited By: anakin_girl
	I'm glad to see that this thread seems to have returned to a modicum of civility. I think Lucas is portraying a tragic mythological romance. There are two points which I always want to make to the Obidala fans: one, Padme isn't perfect, and two, Anakin is lovable. As far as Anakin fulfilling his destiny, there are several classic myths in which the hero must turn to the dark in order to come back to the light, or the hero must go through the underworld in order to come out on top again. I wish Anakin hadn't turned to the dark side, but I believe that Lucas is drawing on these classic myths when making his modern one. Obi-Can: Your husband may have been broke but he hadn't just killed a village of tuskens including their children. There are just some things that can't be excused or looked over with love colored glasses, unless there are some major psychological issues involved. The key words here are "forgiveness" and "understanding". My husband had also not found his mother brutally murdered by said village of Tuskens. I could accept the killing of the men, maybe even the women, but when Anakin says even the women and the children, he lost me. All sympathy and understanding for his feelings were destroyed. How did you feel when you saw the way Shmi was tied up and beaten? She is more innocent than any of the characters we're discussing here. Why do Tusken kids earn more of your sympathy than this poor woman? I've said it until I'm blue in the face and my fingers are sore from typing--I don't think it's OK that Anakin killed the Tusken kids. Of course he shouldn't have done it. However, it really bugs me when people are ready to condemn him to eternal damnation because of it, when people take the attitude, "Who cares if his mother was tortured and beaten to death. He killed the murderers' children. He's evil. I have no sympathy for him. End of story." -----signature----- Room 225, the Geriatric Ward Alternate ending to ROTS: "Chancellor, you're full of crap. This opera sucks. I'm going home to my wife."
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
anakin_girl Title: Founding Member & Retired FF CR Charlotte , NC Registered: Oct '00	Date Posted: 9/29/02 10:44am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Falls: I also like both characters. I think Obi-Wan is probably the most tragic figure in Star Wars. He raised and trained Anakin the best way he knew how. I don't think he was able to give Anakin all that Anakin needed, but that wasn't Obi-Wan's fault. He was raised in the Temple, he was very "by the book", and he knew one way to train a Padawan, and he did it the best way he knew how. And he really loves Anakin--that shows throughout AOTC and the OT. I was thankful that he was able to redeem what he feels was a failure to train Anakin (although I don't think the failure was his) by training Luke, and setting Luke on the path to bring his father back to the light. -----signature----- Room 225, the Geriatric Ward Alternate ending to ROTS: "Chancellor, you're full of crap. This opera sucks. I'm going home to my wife."
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Obi-Can Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 9/29/02 1:10pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Anakin is the closest thing to a son Obi-Wan has. The destruction of that parental bond is the other sad love story of the PT. Obi-Wan will be heartbroken when he must cross swords with Anakin in Ep. III. After all Anakin has done and will do in Ep. III, Obi-Wan's decision to accept Luke shows how much he still cared for the lost Anakin. Falls, Very good point. It's such a sad story all the way around. No one truly wins in this saga. Everyone's life is full of tragedy. Obi-Wan loses the closest thing he had to a son and condemns himself for having failed not only that son but also his own Father-figure, Qui-Gon. As well as the Jedi which are the last of his kind/his world. I think the death scene in the novelization of ROTJ demonstrates beautifully the intensity of feeling that Anakin still holds for Obi-Wan. It's obvious the man was the biggest influence in his life. Anakin loses his mother, his father, his wife and his kids. What a gift he received when Luke returned to him. (I'm making myself cry) I seem to be in the minority as one who is attached to both characters: Obi-Wan and Anakin. Obi-Wan, I love for the quiet, heartbroken, courage and Anakin I love despite his heartbreaking flaws because he had a bright promise he might have fulfilled. Each has strengths and weaknesses that call to mind the moral trials and human frailities we all encounter. I envy you in this. I do like Anakin to some extent, TPM Anakin especially. However, I wanted him to be nicer and more likeable (less whiney, less arrogant, no teenage angst, no leering etc). I'm hoping that in Ep III George is going to show him to be more the hero that Obi-Wan describes in ANH. I think he has more than adequately shown the flaws. I'm hoping that Obi-Wan and Anakin's relationship and friendship is explored further in a positive light. When that light-saber battle starts and ends I want to be in tears at the destruction of their friendship.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Obi-Can Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 9/29/02 1:28pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	However, it really bugs me when people are ready to condemn him to eternal damnation because of it, when people take the attitude, "Who cares if his mother was tortured and beaten to death. He killed the murderers' children. He's evil. I have no sympathy for him. End of story." Anakin-girl, I don't condemn him for eternal damnation. I don't think he's fallen at that point. He is very redeemable. I also think that Padme did the right thing in comforting him. I do understand his rage and pain at his mother's torture and death. However I also feel compassion for the children of that village who are innocents, who have no choice but to follow their parents where they go and what they do. The Children are helpless victims, they didn't torture Shmi the adults did. IMO Anakin abused his power and disrespected the Jedi teachings by killing anyone in that camp. But he crossed the bounds of basic human decency when he killed the children. When a grizzly bear is killed for attacking a human, we don't go out and hunt down that bear's cubs and kill them. We capture them and relocate them to a place where they can't do any harm. This is a man who was trained to be the most compassionate and understanding and non-violent of sentient beings, but demonstrates total lack of compassion or understanding for helpless children. IMO it is an unforgiveable act. Understandable to some extent but not forgiveable or excusable especially as a man with extensive jedi training. I guess we'll just have to disagree on this point we don't understand where either of us is coming from. Why don't we just move on to another subject. It's safer.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
anakin_girl Title: Founding Member & Retired FF CR Charlotte , NC Registered: Oct '00	Date Posted: 9/29/02 2:02pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Obi-Can: Two points, and then, I, too, will drop the subject, seeing that you're probably right and we're just going to have to agree to disagree. 1) Anakin didn't "hunt down" those kids--they were there. He came out of the tent where his mother died, cut down the two guards, several other Tuskens lunged at him with their gaffee sticks, he cut them down, and then other Tuskens started coming out of their tents. He didn't walk around the camp thinking, "Alright, where are the kids? I'm not leaving them untouched, either." He wasn't thinking at all--he was blinded by pure rage (and as someone with a hot temper, I completely understand), and that's why his training didn't help him. Again, he shouldn't have done it--it was wrong--but it's not the same level of "wrong" as some guy who goes to elementary schools and kidnaps kids playing on the playground just for kicks. 2) You say you don't condemn Anakin to eternal damnation, but the way I see it, if you call his actions "unforgivable," that's exactly what you're doing. What's the difference? Forgiveness doesn't mean that there are no consequences for one's actions--Anakin should have gotten some sort of punishment, albeit a rehabilitative one--II believe all punishment should be in some form to rehabilitate the wrongdoer, from the Jedi Order--however, it would do him no good for his girlfriend to dump him and for people to still be glaring at him 30 years later and saying, "I remember what you did to the Tuskens that night. You ***hole." -----signature----- Room 225, the Geriatric Ward Alternate ending to ROTS: "Chancellor, you're full of crap. This opera sucks. I'm going home to my wife."
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Obi-Can Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 9/29/02 3:12pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Anakin-girl, You are right it was an act of passion. But I for one wouldn't be able to live with myself after such an act. It's the critical point in Anakin's life where he crosses a line. The fact that he so easily puts it aside and that Padme does as well that surpasses logic. I accidently ran over a cat and cried for days. I still think about that cat and it was purely unintentional. Of course we don't really know at this point what the repercussions are going to be. We'll have to wait and see. It is also not my place to forgive or excuse Anakin. He did what he did. But I think it says a lot about a person who can do such a thing. Also in the novelization, PLJ in a previous post showed exactly how Anakin murdered the Children it went like this: As Anakin was killing the men, the women and children huddled in a tent in terror. Anakin saw this and levitated a huge boulder and dropped it on the tent with the women and children inside. Now this isn't exactly an immediate too fast to think blood lust, it's a thought out act that takes some time. Look at Yoda and Dooku doing the same thing with much smaller lighter objects in their fight scene. It would take a few minutes to accomplish. Plenty of time to rethink his actions. Feel free to respond, I'll let you have the last word on the subject.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
anakin_girl Title: Founding Member & Retired FF CR Charlotte , NC Registered: Oct '00	Date Posted: 9/29/02 3:27pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	You've made a couple of good points here, Obi-Can. The fact that he so easily puts it aside and that Padme does as well that surpasses logic. I accidently ran over a cat and cried for days. I still think about that cat and it was purely unintentional. The same thing happened to me when I hit a fox. My argument here would be that I don't think he does "easily put it aside". He doesn't pull the Timothy McVeigh "collatoral damage" argument, and if he did, I would be just as angry as several of you on this board are. He feels horribly guilty, he knows what he did was wrong, and certainly there should be consequences. However, where do you draw the line between having him do penance for a crime of passion, and holding a grudge against him for said crime when it wasn't even against you personally? If it is not our place to forgive Anakin, it is also not our place to be angry at him. Why should Padme stop loving him because of this, especially when he deeply regrets his actions? -----signature----- Room 225, the Geriatric Ward Alternate ending to ROTS: "Chancellor, you're full of crap. This opera sucks. I'm going home to my wife."
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Obi-Can Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 9/29/02 3:46pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	The big Darkside turn had to happen before Anakin had a firm bond with Padme, someone who could be his refuge. [I know, he has Obi-Wan but Anakin does not recognize it.] If Anakin just kept the Darkside turn secret, it would give Padme the cheap moral escape. Instead of being just the naïve victim of Palpatine’s lies, she would also be a naïve victim of Anakin’s lies. One thing for which I admire George Lucas greatly is that none of his women are passive damsels in distress. His women make their own choices, even if they are not wise choices. Falls, So I take it that you think that Padme and Anakin probably won't spend a lot of time together in Ep III. The bond won't have time to cement them as a couple. I would agree with this. Palpatines strategy seems to be to keep Anakin alienated and suspicious of the Jedi, Obi-Wan and now Padme. He wants to make Anakin reliant upon him and believe he is the only one Anakin can trust. Therefore, once he finds out about the marriage(perhaps he already knows) it will be imperative that he doesn't allow Anakin to spend time with her. He may also try the OThello trick. Cause trouble by suggesting inproprieties between Padme and Obi-Wan. I have a feeling that Anakin will be the insanely jealous type. I have always believed that in order for Anakin to want to destroy the Jedi with such a vengeance and to seem to have completely forgotten Padme would take a huge betrayal. It of course would require that Anakin's mistrust be illogical and based on his own dark suspicions only and UNTRUE, George will not let Anakin off the hook morally.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
anakin_girl Title: Founding Member & Retired FF CR Charlotte , NC Registered: Oct '00	Date Posted: 9/29/02 3:54pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread. - Date Edited: 9/29/02 3:56pm (1 edits total) Edited By: anakin_girl
	But if it's untrue and Anakin is still duped into thinking it's true, he has still been let off the hook morally, in a way. There would still be a sympathy vote--"What would you do if you thought your wife was cheating on you with your best friend?" I also don't think Anakin has completely forgotten about Padme. I think that he believes she is dead and that the Jedi are somehow responsible (when in reality I think Palpatine kills her and somehow makes Anakin believe that the Jedi either weren't strong enough to stop it or refused to stop it from happening). I'm not in favor of any sort of Othello scenario. It looks too soap-opera-ish to me. Also, Anakin would never believe that either Obi-Wan or Padme would do that. Obi-Wan is too dedicated to the rules of the Order; and Anakin knows that Padme loves him, the same way he knew his mother loved him. He also knows that she isn't one to sleep around. He wouldn't suspect her of doing anything like that, nor would he believe anyone who told him, in fact, he'd probably kill anyone who suggested it. I don't think Palpatine, even being the master manipulator that he is, could fool Anakin into thinking his wife and his master were doing something inappropriate. -----signature----- Room 225, the Geriatric Ward Alternate ending to ROTS: "Chancellor, you're full of crap. This opera sucks. I'm going home to my wife."
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
naw ibo Registered: Mar '99	Date Posted: 9/29/02 4:15pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread. - Date Edited: 9/29/02 4:16pm (2 edits total) Edited By: naw ibo
	That's one reason his story is seen as tragic hero. He is lead through his life, not by his own rules and freedoms, for he really never is "free", going from slave to jedi (which could be stated as less freedom than slave), to sith lord apprentice. Actually that isn't what tragic heroes are. Tragic heroes are "condemned" by their own flaws, by how their characters cause them to react to the things which are beyond their control. Tragic heroes aren't tragic because of the circumstances beyond their control, they are tragic because they do not properly control the areas of their life and person which are within their control. The only thing Anakin didn't choose was to be born a slave. He chose to train to become a Jedi, even if we do think of him as being young to make such a decision--he did so with the support of his mother, he chooses to become a Sith and he chooses to renounce the Sith when he kills Palpatine. In fact the way it is described there would completely take away the tragic aspect of his story. It would no longer be tragic. Anakin has free will to make his choices just like everyone else does. Yes it is Othello, Act V, Scene ii. Thanks, Falls. I have two Complete Plays(one just has the plays, the other has the plays and commentary) but they are so darn big and heavy I just wasn't in the mood to dig them out. “De-nial isn’t just a river in Egypt.” Know the phrase well. It looked like more time than that elapsed, to me and as I just posted, I think she correctly realizes that the last thing Anakin needs now is to lose his father-figure too. He brings his mother's body home in the morning, the grave is dug, her body prepared, they bury her and Anakin and Padme leave, it's been maybe half a day or less. The point is Anakin was ready to listen to Mace and Padme uses her influence on him to make him disobey. She twists what Mace said around(including conveniently ignoring the "Stay there" part of it) and helps Anakin to do the same. In a situation where he really should have listened. He may not need to lose a father figure now but you don't "take action", even if it's senseless and reckless, just for the sake of doing something. This isn't like Naboo ten years earlier where she had the advantage of both the grand Gungan army and knowing of the secret ways around Theed. They have no plan, they have no reason to believe they will be listened to, the CIS are obviously already planning military action against the Republic, the Republic which is virtually without military protection which in turn gives the CIS little reason to negotiate. Anakin needed "downtime", whether he wanted it or not, more than he needed to be involved in that. Who knows maybe if Obi-Wan had died(not that I think he should have or would have but just if..and of course I wouldn't want him to), he'd have appreciated Obi-Wan more in death than he did in life and decided to be a good Jedi as a way of honoring him and his dead mother. Anakin did show regret, he did say he knew as a Jedi he should not have done what he did. And if Obi-Wan lived through Geonosis without him there, it would have been an example to Anakin that just because he couldn't control a situation or be involved in one doesn't mean he should fear the worst. It would have been a lesson in letting go. His women make their own choices, even if they are not wise choices. This is true. I don't have a problem with Padme making un-wise choices as a character. But of course I like to complain about those choices, that's part of the fun. Could Anakin have fully repented of his slaughter of the Tuskens (meaning reporting this to Obi-Wan and the JC) and returned to being a good person, a good husband, or perhaps even a good Jedi? I think he could have. In fact I think that was key to it. If he could make the choice he did to kill Palpatine when he did, after twenty-five years in the Sith Master's service, imagine how much easier it would have been to do it before he had that long path of death and destruction behind him. Yet it would still be difficult, by avoiding difficult one's now, they just become more and more difficult as they add up. There are two points which I always want to make to the Obidala fans: I almost never see these people on the AOTC board or on the EP III. They may write some fanfiction, but there is way more A/P fanfiction, so why do you worry about it? She is more innocent than any of the characters we're discussing here. She is not more innocent than those children, the same perhaps, but not more so. We all feel bad about Shmi. But her death, however it happened, doesn't somehow make their deaths any less appalling. I still sympathize with his loss, but that does't somehow make me sympathize with his actions in relation to that loss. He wasn't unable to use his teachings because he was in a rage. He was in a rage because he did not use his teachings. IMO Anakin abused his power and disrespected the Jedi teachings by killing anyone in that camp. But he crossed the bounds of basic human decency when he killed the children. When a grizzly bear is killed for attacking a human, we don't go out and hunt down that bear's cubs and kill them. That's the way I see it Obi-Can. And I can vouch for the bear issue, as I live in an area where we are having some serious black bear issues. You don't kill a dog's puppies if the dog bit you, at least not if you are a decent human being. Anakin didn't "hunt down" those kids--they were there.....He didn't walk around the camp thinking, "Alright, where are the kids? I'm not leaving them untouched, either." He wasn't thinking at all--he was blinded by pure rage (and as someone with a hot temper, I completely understand), and that's why his training didn't help him. Again, he shouldn't have done it--it was wrong--but it's not the same level of "wrong" as some guy who goes to elementary schools and kidnaps kids playing on the playground just for kicks. In my opinion, it may not be the same level of wrong, but it isn't really much better. I do not believe blind rage is an excuse for an action. They were there and they were alot smaller than the adults. They were quite obviously children. And he killed them. The very fact that their being children didn't call him up short and cause him to hold back seems to say something quite disturbing about him. however, it would do him no good for his girlfriend to dump him She didn't have to dump him but she didn't have to marry him right away either. But if it's untrue and Anakin is still duped into thinking it's true, he has still been let off the hook morally, in a way. There would still be a sympathy vote--"What would you do if you thought your wife was cheating on you with your best friend?" It didn't let Othello off the hook. Othello's own weaknesses allowed him to be taken in by Iago's lies. If he had been able to overcome them, he would not have done what he did. In fact I even think Othello and ROTJ tie in in away. Anakin says to Luke "Let me see you with my own eyes". In Othello, Othello insists on "ocular proof" from Iago. However, his "ocular proof" consists of seeing things through Iago's eyes, rather than through his own. He has allowed himself to become figuratively blind. In his dealings with Palpatine, this is what it seems that Anakin will do and has started to do already. I don't think Palpatine will use a sexual angle though. I think he will use a political angle. It may seem that "how could politics affect Anakin and Padme's relationship?", but in the picnic scene, this is already a point. They brush it off as teasing, but in reality I think it could become a serious point of contention. Because it goes to the very heart of who they are as people. Obi-Wan and Padme could end up on the same side against Palpatine while Anakin is siding with him. This could turn to a distance between them and lead to the scenario the leads Anakin to believe she is dead, whether she is or not.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Falls_the_Shadow Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 9/29/02 4:37pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Obi-Can Falls, So I take it that you think that Padme and Anakin probably won't spend a lot of time together in Ep III. The bond won't have time to cement them as a couple. Correct. Even if I didn't know Darth Vader was on the horizon, I would expect a lot of normal couple time for Ani/Ami. Anakin is a warrior in a semi-monastic order who has married secretly as the galaxy is on the brink of a galatic war. The tragedy of an Othello scenario is that if the Othello figure would show one-tenth of the compassion and blind faith that his wife and friend give to him, the deceptions of Iago would be revealed. To tie this into AOTC LS discussion, I see the groundwork laid for an Othello scenario. Anakin is isolated among his Jedi peers, has no real attachment to the non-Jedi other than Padme. He has promise of becoming the "cunning warrior" Kenobi described in ANH. He is a good friend of Kenobi, but there is a seed of distrust and Anakin in anger says that Kenobi is jealous of the Force skills Anakin has, and a leap to other forms of imagined jealousy is not too far. His marriage is outside the code of his society. Even in AOTC, Anakin has "loved not wisely, but too well." (Othello V, ii) I would elaborate more, but that would be on an Ep III spoiler free thread. -----signature----- Between the idea / and the reality / Between the motion / and the act Falls the Shadow (T.S. Eliot)
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
anakin_girl Title: Founding Member & Retired FF CR Charlotte , NC Registered: Oct '00	Date Posted: 9/29/02 5:05pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	naw ibo: You don't kill a dog's puppies if the dog bit you, at least not if you are a decent human being. Agreed 100 percent. I'm not really sure we're talking about dogs here though. The Tuskens planned to brutally murder Shmi out of sheer cruelty. Dogs bite because they sense danger to themselves, or because they are already hurt. I also agree with you that it was stupid of Padme to insist that Anakin chase after Obi-Wan. They should have stayed on the farm with the Lars; Anakin did need downtime. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what Padme's motivations were, except for maybe false sense of heroics herself. The novelization says that she feels that Anakin needs to go just to prove to himself that he isn't a failure, that he can save Obi-Wan. As far as the Obidala fans--without reading all 300-some pages of this thread, I had been told by some fellow Anakin fans who have been chased out of here that this place had become, at one point, a tennis match between people who love the Anakin/Amidala story and the people who want an Obidala angle. However, I can't point out exactly what page. In my opinion, it may not be the same level of wrong, but it isn't really much better. I do not believe blind rage is an excuse for an action. They were there and they were alot smaller than the adults. They were quite obviously children. And he killed them. The very fact that their being children didn't call him up short and cause him to hold back seems to say something quite disturbing about him. I think there may be some things you don't understand here about certain personality traits. No, blind rage is not an excuse for action, meaning that people shouldn't get off the hook because they acted out of blind rage. However, it is a reason for action. You're assuming, from what I can infer from your post, that Anakin was actually in a state of mind to stop and think about the fact that these were children, much smaller than adults. He wasn't. Someone in a blind rage is not held back except by having forced time away from the situation to calm down. The only thing that would have stopped Anakin that night would have been having someone there with him--one of the Jedi perhaps--to take hold of him, hold him down, and force him to leave the camp. There was no logic clicking in his brain to make him think, "Wait a minute--these are kids. They didn't do anything." In a blind rage, there is no "wait a minute." There is just action, no thinking--at least until later, when there is nothing to do but regret. I can attest to this--I have a horrific temper myself, and while I have never killed anyone (I have also never found my mother tortured to death), if I had $5 for every time I said or did something in a rage that I wish I could take back, I'd be on the cover of Fortune magazine. I think logical, level-headed people have a hard time understanding Anakin, and are therefore more quick to judge him. As far as the Othello angle--I am somewhat familiar with the play (it's a favorite of my father's--my sister's name is Emilia); however, I don't know enough about it to discuss it to the extent that you all are. I do know that any sort of love triangle, even an implied one, seems far-fetched to me, too "Days of Our Lives". I can see a political angle, but I don't think Palpatine will be able to tell Anakin, "Your wife is turning against the two of us." The reason being, Anakin would leave Palpatine for Padme, just as he was willing to leave the Jedi for her, and just as he killed Palpatine for Luke. -----signature----- Room 225, the Geriatric Ward Alternate ending to ROTS: "Chancellor, you're full of crap. This opera sucks. I'm going home to my wife."
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Obi-Can Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 9/29/02 5:25pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	In Othello, Othello insists on "ocular proof" from Iago. However, his "ocular proof" consists of seeing things through Iago's eyes, rather than through his own. He has allowed himself to become figuratively blind. In his dealings with Palpatine, this is what it seems that Anakin will do and has started to do already. Wow, Naw, you got me thinking. Perhaps Sidious/Palpatine shows him a false vision or a dream of Obi-Wan and Padme. Instead of confronting the two people he loves the most with his doubts, he takes Palpatines vision as the truth. Lets it eat at his relationship with these two people till it poisons him. I also think that it could be a political chasm that opens up. But I don't know if this would be enough to sour him on Padme or Obi-Wan. It has to be big. Falls , yes perhaps it isn't that he believes what he is told right away. But the mistrust builds and builds until innocent events and actions are seen with a poisoned eye. This would explain why she feels she must run from him to protect herself and the children. Anakin-girl, I used to think that it could be Padme's death that turned him. But I have two issues with this theory. Firstly, IMO Padme's death wouldn't be enough. When he turns he is betraying Padme as well as the Jedi. Even if he thinks its the Jedi's who killed her, which I don't think he could believe that. Secondly Padme is alive when Leia is at least 3yrs old. Leia remembers her mother. It could be something like he wants the dark side power in order to save her, bring her back to life. But then she would have to be dead and I don't think she's going to die. I like the Othello theory, but see a lot of possibilities.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Falls_the_Shadow Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 9/29/02 5:30pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread. - Date Edited: 9/29/02 5:56pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Falls_the_Shadow
	Edit of my last post after edit time expired: I would NOT expect a lot of normal couple time for Ani/Ami. Nao Ibo I do not call wise Padme's decision to go on "a damnfool crusade" to rescue Obi-Wan with no plan and no resources, heading right towards those who've been trying to kill her. We see that Luke's Bespin Cloud City rescue attempt and Leia's attempted rescue attempt of Han in Jabba's palace are due to the impulsiveness from their mother as much as their father. No, it is not the calculated risk of the Naboo war. Instead, she is losing her head in this romance and she charges in to protect Anakin's master because he is dear to Anakin. In contrast, she and the handmaidens were able to ignore the pleas from Naboo that they received while on Tatooine. If Padme was the little adult too early, now she is the overgrown teen too late. Oddly, she says but does not follow her own words in the Confession, "Sometimes there are things no one can fix. You're not all powerful." On the other hand, it was equally reckless for Leia to follow a voice in her head to return to Bespin (untrained in the Force, she had no logical reason to believe it.) To a lesser extent, Han turned back and joined the underdog rebels in the doomed attack on the first Death Star, for the sake of the pistol-packing princess and the noble farm boy. anakin_girl, if my Othello scenario bothers you, don't worry: I am spoiler-free and if I am as inaccurate with Ep III as I was with AOTC ("wow, the Jedi are going to fight the clones and we'll see Vader for 1/2 the movie), you will be safe. -----signature----- Between the idea / and the reality / Between the motion / and the act Falls the Shadow (T.S. Eliot)
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History

« 342 | 343 | 344 | 345 | 346 | 347 | 348 | 349 | 350 | 351 » - Previous | Next | Reload

Jedi Council Forums » Star Wars Films » Attack of the Clones »