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Author	Topic: Official Love Story discussion thread.
jedi-ES Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 6/29/02 7:46pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Undomiel, you have surpassed your previous opinions with your posts today. Very impressive and entertaining. And I totally agree with them. I wanted to make a comment about playing games. I am a man, tend to be serious, and don't like to play games, socially. However, I also recognize that in the realm of courting the male must be the pursuer. That is one of the rules of the game. The fact of the matter, sometimes playing the courting games that women want to play at that time is the price that you pay to eventually be with that women. That is just the way it is. I don't like it any more than you do. But women, in general, see things differently than men and these games are necessary for them to determine your level of commitment and interest and if you are what they are looking for. ALso, yesterday I saw that last 30 minutes of Where the Heart is, with Natalie P. The one thing that I noticed, and there were emotional scenes, is that she is a straight line actress, in that her appearance in these scenes are much more subtle than the usual actress. It actually made her performance in the love confession scene much more impressive to me because you can see the emotional release in her entire face. The point I am making is that many people thought that Natalie' performance didn't allow you to believe that there was conflict within her and that was falling for Anakin. I would say that Natalie's acting style is on the subtle side and to see those emotional states you would have to observe the subtle actions of her face and body. Lastly, I saw Spiderman twice. I like it, but concerning the love story, it just didn't seem to hit me a deeper level. The only part that got to me was the end, because I could feel how tough it was for Peter Parker to do what he did. The absolute last point: GL's portrayal women in Star Wars as strong, intelligent, beautiful, independant and in leadership positions has probably more than anything shaped subconsciously what I wanted in a mate. And I would guess to say that there are similar effects to many other men. For some reason, it seems as though GL doesn't get the credit for this portrayal of women that he should get. How many other heroines in the movies are shown with these qualities nowadays? -----signature----- "I write for the youth of my generation, the critics of the next, and the schoolmasters of ever afterward." "God gives each his due at the time allotted." THE Trojan Horse. Petition! http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/jedistyletraining
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anakin-player Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 6/29/02 8:59pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	I get that he's gorgeous and all, but this is an ex-queen and senator who has been associating with the leaders of a galaxy her whole life. What the heck would a woman like that see in an immature,temper tantrum throwing teenager. Now if she had been an innocent sheltered teenager it would have been more believable. Connie, welcome to the thread. We need more posters to get more opinions. Otherwise it's just me arguing with Undomiel, PLJ, and IamZam everyday. As for Padme falling for Anakin, I had a tough time beleiving that at first. You make a good point because she is a mature and worldy woman. On the other hand, Anakin acts like a spoiled brat in the beginning of the movie. However after discussing the love aspect of the movie on this thread and reading hundreds of posts, I am now convinced that Padme can fall for Anakin not just because of his looks. He did save her life several times. He saves her life right at the beginning of the movie with his lightsaber otherwise the centipede things would have killed her. As a guy, I think that would be quite impressive to a woman. Afterall, Anakin does stop whining as the movie progresses. I think the ladies on this thread have argued that Padme falls for Anakin because he is the only person to treat her as Padme the woman and not Padme the politician. I have to agree with that statement because she starts falling fast for Anakin right from the start. She is "blown away" when she sees him again for the first time. I had to watch the movie several times to see her expression after the ladies on this thread pointed it out to me. I was a non-believer at first but I've been pretty much convinced of the love aspect of the movie. -----signature----- “If you would not be forgotten, as soon as you are dead & rotten, either write things worth reading, or do things worth the writing.” -Benjamin Franklin
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Jedi_Lyn Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 6/29/02 9:05pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread. - Date Edited: 6/29/02 9:10pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Jedi_Lyn
	I get that he's gorgeous and all, but this is an ex-queen and senator who has been associating with the leaders of a galaxy her whole life. What the heck would a woman like that see in an immature,temper tantrum throwing teenager. First of all, it is my prejudice against the politics, they seems to be very good at shooting the old cp, or anything to do with shooting the old cp. IMHO except for padme, the politic around her must have some old c**p. That is the thing Anakin does not have. They don't stand a chance against Anakin, in that prospect, coz she is not like them. And she can't take anybody like them. I just don't think she has many people to choose from. ( I know I am gonna be killed for saying this) Secondly, I remember in that 'your presence is soothing' scence, I saw Padme, and I went 'gosh she is blooming'. I think PLJ made quite a good point somewhere in this thread (i think it is this thread) that having her love coming out of her is like a rebirth to Padme. Something at this level needs not to have anything to do with the padme you talk about --- the padme who is ex-queen and senator. Don't relate the love story to THAT padme, relate it to the padme you see in ATOC. I hope I can help you there. The fact that the two is gonna suffer does not take away my liking of them. Love is like death, IMHO, it does not go easy on you because of how you are doing or what you have done. And you get killed by it sometimes. -----signature----- What was silent is now in retreat Nothing was to be marked from the beginning Except the acknowledge
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IamZam Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 6/29/02 11:15pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Welcome Connie, its nice to get another view point. Right now things are a bit one sided in here not that I mind, the mutual admiration society mentality on occasion. Its nice to hear the other side as well. First I'm a 30'ish woman and totally didnt buy the romance. Well let me rephrase that, I understood what Georgie wanted me to get out of it but I just didn't feel it. It was forced and there was no chemistry between the two characters. Well I'm also 30 something and last time I looked in the mirror I was still female. On that point I'll have to agree to disagree with you. I totally felt it, and thought they made a great couple. They just seemed to me to belong together. I really wanted to like Anakin, but found myself cringing everytime he gave one of his leers. I suppose what bothered me the most was how could a sophisticated, worldly woman like Padme be attracted to the very immature "teenage" acting Anakin. I didn't see them as 'leers', more the looks of a very unsure man/boy who is in awe of an "angel" he's been dreaming about for 10 years. He knows he has gotten too her, but he has no idea of exactly how to procede. Its not like they teach romance 101 at the Jedi Temple, and I'm pretty sure Padawans are seriously discouraged from dating each other. And if they that werent' the case, he wouldn't have given first glance to any other woman. He's idolized her since day one. I get that he's gorgeous and all, cough cough really hadn't noticed.. cough cough but this is an ex-queen and senator who has been associating with the leaders of a galaxy her whole life. What the heck would a woman like that see in an immature,temper tantrum throwing teenager. Now if she had been an innocent sheltered teenager it would have been more believable. An emotional controlled, very stiff Queen, who has been surrounded by "yes people" and lobbyists, and favor mongers who only see Amidala the politician who can help their cause. She has never been seen as Padme the woman, because that part is hidden. But Anakin see's her for her, not for what she is, but who she is. He awakens feelings in her, that are wonderful and frightening at the same time. For the first time in her life, her heart is totally opposite her head. She knows what he is thinking, because even though she isn't ready to admit it to herself she is thinking the same thing as well. She was smitten the minute she first saw him again. But it was a totally new feeling, and a forbidden one at that. So the put downs were a means of over compinsating and hiding her feelings. "The lady doth protest too much". He awakens the soft female side of her, makes her feel alive and I think if you look back PLJ put it very well, but I'm too lazy too look it up and quote her. Knowing that Hayden is a very good actor I must conclude that George directed him to act like a troubled teen. He is playing a bit younger, but I see it more as a man, with some serious emotional issues, not the least of which is a slight anger management problem. But also a deeply hurting young man, who was taken away from his mother at a pivitol age, then lost the first father figure he had ever really known, only to be judged by a bunch of strangers who put him on the spot, first rejecting him, then slapping him with the label "chosen one". Then he got the joy of being both the youngest and oldest padawan. He was apprenticed to a total stranger who only took him on, because of a promise to a dying man. They grew close, but do not see eye to eye on many things. He has a master he loves and resents at the same time. He has dreams of his mother, and nobody takes them seriously, by the time he finally makes it home, it is too late. To borrow a quote from another movie, "He's a lot more normal than he has a right to be". However, this in itself is unbelievable, he's been a jedi for 10 years and acts worse than when he was 9 . He should also be worldly and mature, but instead is this leering overly aggressive child. First he's sheltered, now he should be worldy and mature? The Jedi are well trained in the arts of defense and combat, but they are also in many extents a religous based order. He may be quite wordly in some areas, but in matters of the heart and the opposite sex, he is way out of his legue and playing it totally by ear. He is troubled yes, but overly agressive? I would have to disagree. He is agressive when it comes to defending her, or something he believes in, such as finding out who is behind the threats, not merely protecting her. But when it comes to persuing her, he totally respects her lead and her wishes. When she told him they couldn't fall in love, he totally backed off. If he was just a leering obnoxious kid, who didn't respect her he wouldn't have. He was more concerned with his mother, and gave her exactly what she wanted. She of course didn't want what she got, but that is another discussion. Though in Hayden's defense I think alot of the problem fell on Natalie Portman. Where he over-acted she under-acted. In many scenes she looked like she needed to be zapped with something to wake her up. Padme Amidala is not an emotional, expressive person. This is a woman who has learned from a very young age how to control her emotions, and not show her true feelings. It is only when Anakin wakes up a part of her, she didn't realize was there that she truly lives for the first time. After the arena confession, she becomes a totally differnt person. The Old Amidala would never have made the "agressive negiations joke" nor would she have run up to the wounded Anakin with the patented "hug o'death. (I didn't see a kiss, just a very emotional "would you like to be alone" hug). I just found it very uncomfortable to watch the poorly executed love story. I'm sure what we saw in this movie (romance wise) is necessary somehow to setup the plot in the next one. yes it is definatley neccessary to set up EPIII. But I thought it was brilliantly exectuted. (IMHO). It was a bit uncomfortable the first time, not because I didn't like it, but because like most women of this day and age I'm not used to a man who is that open about his feelings. Especially in areas of romance, we can't compare Anakin to a man of our time, but rather to how someone from the 16th century may have acted. Thus the sappy poetry like words. [i}Therefore, each time I see it I cringe and ignore the romance (especially the dialogue) and just enjoy the movie for the great Star Wars film it is. [/i] Well it is definately a great SW film, but I look forward to the romatic scenes as much as the rest of the movie. I can't think of a single part I dont' like. Although the more I watch it, the greater my hatred for Palpy/Sids. (I love Ian's performance though, I just hate the evilness of the character). Talk about evil incarnate. He gives me the shivers. And the fact that they won't get the happily ever after, only makes me love it more. -----signature----- "But my dreams They aren't as empty As my conscience seems to be.... No one knows what it's like to be the bad man, to be the sad man behind blue eyes....." The Who Anakin didn't just fall - he was pushed
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Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 6/30/02 12:02am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Zam, VERY nice post.
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Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 6/30/02 12:19am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Jedi_Es, However, I also recognize that in the realm of courting the male must be the pursuer. That is one of the rules of the game. The fact of the matter, sometimes playing the courting games that women want to play at that time is the price that you pay to eventually be with that women. You make it sound as if men simply want to get to the nitty gritty but are sentenced to playing little childish games with females. This couldn't be farther from the truth. How will you know if she is your cup of tea or not, if you don't check her out as well? How will you know if she has a bad temper? Or whatever pet peeve you might not appreciate in a female? Courting is a necessary step in determining compability in a prospective mate. I think I've been engaged in the longest courtship in history, although I've been married to the same man for 20 years. Does it ever end? From my perspective it doesn't appear to ever peak out unless the relationship is DEAD or you or your mate achieves perfection at which point you might find one or both of you are nearly impossible to live with. lol. I don't like it any more than you do. But women, in general, see things differently than men and these games are necessary for them to determine your level of commitment and interest and if you are what they are looking for. And vice-a-versa.
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Lukecash Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 6/30/02 12:34am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	IamZam What do you mean no one dissagreed with you for a while? What am I? A glass of spoiled blue milk? Geez Looize. Just because I am from mars my opinon dosen't count Anyways I have to agree with some things that Connie said, especially with regards with Portman. While I don't find Anakins acting a problem, I feel like Portman is a problem. Is she acting emotionally reserved like her character? Or is she really a terrible actress. It's really hard to tell. I don't buy the story that she hadn't had any romances...the movie was quite clear that she at least a crush when she was younger. A girl like Padme would probabbly get hit on...a lot. I think a great opportunity was missed when she met anakin for the first time after ten years...she seemed more surpised to see him grown so big. And then then quickly shuts his akward attempt at a compliment. Now to most guys, girls- this is a clear singal that you are saying "I don't think so!" Now if she said something like "I guess you aren't that little boy I remembered.?" Perhaps this would have shown intrest. Or pershaps she could have shot a secret glance at Corde and make the "oh my god he's a gourgeous hunk" look. A second wasted opportunity was after Anakin killed the assasin bugs. We know she was probabbly greatful- but we aren't shown that in that scene or in the next day. Perhaps look of sheer amazment on her face. Or if she loosened the "stoic" mask for a bit and gets herself a little flustered...that would have been good. The whole "Don't look at me like that" scene, while works on one level...also comes across as creepy/sexual harasment wierd. And I keep hearing from the ladies on this board that it is romantic for a guy to bear his heart to a gal. Nope. Not in real life. In fact that flowery speech will get you shown the door almost as quickly as Anakin got shut down. -----signature----- Boss Nass and Captian Tarpalis were brave, compentent warriors.- my words that will alway haunt me. You were right about one thing master, the negotiations were short"- ob-wani To expect Star Wars to be anything but itself is courting doom-me being wise
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PadmeLeiaJaina Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 6/30/02 12:39am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Oh my lord I stay away from this thread for 24 hours and Anakin-Player has become a believer???? (Chair falls over, picks self off of floor, scratching head in confusion.) It's 3AM so I don't have it in me to muddle through the 4 or 5 new pages of posts. Connie- please goto the "5 great scenes directed by George Lucas" thread. I just posted an in-depth analysis on why the Fireplace scene rocks instead of blows(I spent about an hour writing it to get it right, but since that's a mostly guy friendly thread I had to make other connections. A-P you will probably find it intersting.) If you've only seen AOTC once or twice, you need to see it again and watch Padme, watch her closely throughout the film. If you do, you will start to believe that she is truly in emotional torment over Anakin. What is all this talk about the love story in Spiderman being more believable than AOTC? Hello! I saw Spidey, liked the film, but in NO WAY believed that Mary Jane was really in love with Peter. She "fell" in love 4 times, for 4 different guys in the course of the film. Yes 4 because she didn't know Peter and Spidey were one in the same. Give me a break. MJ is fickle. AOTC is this strangely, wildly, fantastic love story. It doesn't make sense sometimes, practical Padme should know better than to fall in love with tempermental Anakin, but she just can't help herself. She's always cared for the boy. He saved her planet, her life, and even when she publicly insults him, he still needs her love and forgives her. He fills a empty void in her life, where desire has no place in a public arena. He makes her feel alive, loose, and free. The love story works only if you truly care about the 2 characters. They need each other. They complete each other. She is reason, he is reckless, much like Scully and Mulder. Anyways I'm off to Bedfordshire.... Will try to be more coherent tomorrow and will read everything..... yawn... -----signature----- My STAR WARS Fan Site! http://www.freewebs.com/padmeleiajaina/ Visit me on Livejournal! http://rkc-erika.livejournal.com/
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PadmeLeiaJaina Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 6/30/02 12:50am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	LukeCash <<< Nope. Not in real life. In fact that flowery speech will get you shown the door almost as quickly as Anakin got shut down.>>> Guess what you've just hit the nail on the head as to why you don't understand the love story. This is not based on current times. The love story is a medieval, courtly type of a romance, the dialogue evokes a feeling of the Victorian era, a more "civilized age." The romance is based on Romeo and Juliet, Sir Lancelot professing his love to Gueniviere. It is NOT modern. It comes from a time when love was more important that sex. When speaking from your heart was the only way to win a woman over. IF you can learn to view the love story in that perspective, you might be able to see it differently. BTW, Anakin's looks are not "leering" they are "smouldering." There is a large difference. Padme is uncomfortable because he is looking at her as a woman and not a politician. She's never had anyone look at her that way, and is rebelling over the implications of the looks he is giving to her. She's also having to readjust her views of Anakin. He was a boy the last time she saw him, now he is almost a man, a man who wants to protect PADME, not Senator Amidala. That is what really makes her uncomfortable, not necessarily the look he's giving her. -----signature----- My STAR WARS Fan Site! http://www.freewebs.com/padmeleiajaina/ Visit me on Livejournal! http://rkc-erika.livejournal.com/
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Mertroid Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 6/30/02 5:55am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	I think the love could have been stronger between Anakin and Padme. But it was pretty good. The script could have been a little bit better in my opinion. Sometimes I was wondering what was going to happen next. -----signature----- Vader breathing "Rise my friend....Yes my master" VADER ROCKS MY WORLD! He is the ULTIMATE VILLAIN OF ALL TIME! Nobody ever dis Vader here....or else.... "I find your lack of faith disturbing" choke
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Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 6/30/02 6:50am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	PLJ, Ah sweet googley moogley, that was another nice post.
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HappyPlace Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 6/30/02 9:25am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	I had much to say, but all of it has been said more eloquently than I would have by IamZam and PadmeLeiaJaina. Great posts, you two and I heartily agree with everything you said. However, I admit to also cringing during some of the love scenes during my first viewing (I still loved the story and felt the tangible chemistry between the two, though). Upon second viewing I realized that I had been so taken up in the dialogue (which is strange to the modern ear) that I completely missed the excellent acting! This is not so good IMO, since many people are only going to see this movie once. On the other hand, who counts more? The general movie-going public, or us die-hard SW fans who will be watching this movie many times over from now on.
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jedi-ES Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 6/30/02 9:48am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Undomiel, I wrote what you quoted of me, from the perspective on one guy talking to another guy who didnt care for the "game," basically saying: deal with, that is the way things are, and forever will be. I do see though that I did write it from the perspective that if it was a guy''s choice, he would just get it on, which is a fallacious as any other generality, and doesn't even reflect what I believe. Thank you for revealing my bias. LukeCash, I would argue that Padme has had just as sheltered a life as Anakin has. They are both in very elite "clubs" with very little opporunity for a relationship to go beyond professional. That, together with Padme's dedication to her professional responsibilities, provided no window of opportunity for any potential suitors. And I would argue the Palo arrived on the scene before she placed her professional responsibilities as first priority in her life. -----signature----- "I write for the youth of my generation, the critics of the next, and the schoolmasters of ever afterward." "God gives each his due at the time allotted." THE Trojan Horse. Petition! http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/jedistyletraining
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HappyPlace Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 6/30/02 9:57am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread. - Date Edited: 6/30/02 10:03am (1 edits total) Edited By: HappyPlace
	LukeCash, I would argue that Padme has had just as sheltered a life as Anakin has. They are both in very elite "clubs" with very little opporunity for a relationship to go beyond professional. That, together with Padme's dedication to her professional responsibilities, provided no window of opportunity for any potential suitors. And I would argue the Palo arrived on the scene before she placed her professional responsibilities as first priority in her life. Jedi-ES, I would agree with this. Clearly from her re-telling of the Palo crush she had when she was 12 (i.e. before she became Queen), it was a childish thing with no real substance. I surmised that there has been no real personal life for her since the start of her reign as Monarch. So, she's had a lot of men around her, yes: bodyguards, slimy Senators, father-figures, but no one who, for lack of a better word, "dated" her. She is as clueless as Anakin about being in love.
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PadmeLeiaJaina Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 6/30/02 10:54am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	jedi-ES and HappyPlace- I think you've both hit the nail on the head! -----signature----- My STAR WARS Fan Site! http://www.freewebs.com/padmeleiajaina/ Visit me on Livejournal! http://rkc-erika.livejournal.com/
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