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Author	Topic: Official Love Story discussion thread.
DarthBreezy Title: Retired Mos Everett Cantina Founder & JMPR Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 7/1/02 2:56pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Yes. -----signature----- http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/29640754/p1 Dear Tam - an AU post ROTJ story told through the eyes of a child "It's hard, being a Jedi..." - Pem Skywalker Anywhere Is Possible
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PadmeLeiaJaina Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/1/02 2:59pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	DarthBreezy- that was funny! Well the boys all appear to be meandering around elsewhere on the boards today. Oh well... -----signature----- My STAR WARS Fan Site! http://www.freewebs.com/padmeleiajaina/ Visit me on Livejournal! http://rkc-erika.livejournal.com/
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IamZam Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/1/02 2:59pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	I got it. I was just having a geritol moment. I thought it was an attachment, instead using my lazy mouse fingers to click to the photos section.. Good work btw!! But poor Natalie!! on her frame it shouldn't take much.. -----signature----- "But my dreams They aren't as empty As my conscience seems to be.... No one knows what it's like to be the bad man, to be the sad man behind blue eyes....." The Who Anakin didn't just fall - he was pushed
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Jedi_Lyn Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 7/1/02 3:26pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	say this before going home: I look forward to see how is their love going to be tried in episode III. we know how both of them are going to end up. we don't know if their love is going to last or break. is a cheat bad enough to do the trick? my guess is no. I am guessing Vador is going to be born thanks to obi-wan. because Anakin said 'obiwan is going to kill me' and I trust his word. so I am guessing up to that point you still get Anakin and he still loves Padme. It is either bitter sweet or painful and tearful. -----signature----- What was silent is now in retreat Nothing was to be marked from the beginning Except the acknowledge
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jedi-ES Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 7/1/02 5:21pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Amazing. You got a few things to do and all of a sudden there's four pages of posts! For those who wrote that we had to like Anakin in EP. II for the whole saga to work, first, I agree with that but I think the key in that working was casting Hayden. The guy cares about the saga, he studied relentlessly for the role and he is such a good actor and did so much with such a difficult character to play. The laurels should be given to him. Also, though this is divergent from the thread, and I don't want to talk about too much in fear of pissing a few people off about their expectations for Ep. III, but I am convinced that they are completely dedicated to each other and IMHO I don't think that he will break with her. And reading into a few lines of dialogue from Dooku,Palpatine, and Anakin, my heart grows heavy with what I fear will happen in Ep. III that pushed Anakin over the edge. I know that Natalie played a pregnant character in Where the Heart Is, so if anyone is interested in what she would like with a big belly, check out the movie. I would lastly like to say, and I am a man, that I know that from the 20th Century Fox intro, to the Lucasfilm logo, to the intro, through the movie, to the end, and the closing credits, I will be in a state of constant sadness at the tragedy that I am watching and the end of one of the biggest influences in my life. Pass the tissues, ladies. -----signature----- "I write for the youth of my generation, the critics of the next, and the schoolmasters of ever afterward." "God gives each his due at the time allotted." THE Trojan Horse. Petition! http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/jedistyletraining
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Obi-Can Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 7/1/02 5:29pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Here's a question that I've been thinking about for the last few days. I've seen it touched on in some fan fiction, but not anywhere else. Who's idea do you think it was to get married? His, hers, or ?? His definitly. I think he probably was a total emotional wreck after the events in the movie. During this episode he suffered through the death of his mom, his loss in the battle to Dooku(which probably was hard hit to his enflated ego), the loss of his arm, the fear of revealing too much to Obi-Wan regarding his feelings towards Padme, and last but not least the guilt over murdering the women and children in the Sand People camp. I think he was an emotional wreck and probably begged her to marry him. She having already committed to him by declaring her love felt obligated to go through with it, and wanted to support him in every way possible. If she hadn't he may have turned right then. I think the marriage keeps him on the light side a little bit longer. I'm not so sure though how its going to be played out in EpIII. I can't remember it ever being mentioned that their marriage was known to be kept secret in OT. My gut on this is that Anakin never becomes a Jedi knight. That he leaves the Jedi order and somehow gets pulled back in the fray through fighting in the Clone Wars to back the republic.
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MASTER-WINDU Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 7/1/02 8:33pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Hello everyone, boy did I have a lot to catch up on today! Again, a lot of very remarkable ideas to read. Zam, I enjoyed your post about Anakin the spoiled brat. Interesting how some people see Anakin as a spoiled brat and Padme as a cold fish. I know this is a seriously delayed reaction (I was soooo busy yesterday and didn’t get to read the posts at all until late last evening, and by then, I didn’t have time to post anything), but if you’ll let me go one step further on your post about our “spoiled brat” … Consider this, folks. Both Anakin and Padme have clearly spent at least half of their lives under tremendous expectations and responsibilities. Let’s look at Anakin first. As you said, Zam, he was born a slave, and spent the first half of his life as a slave. Now we all know that slaves have to put up with some really spaced-out attitudes of their masters – and some truly unreasonable demands. And put up with them Anakin must, most probably out of fear that if he doesn’t the punishment will be: a) he’ll be beaten (yes, Watto wasn't as bad as some masters, but he still beat Anakin from time to time); b) he’ll be sold to another master and separated from his mother; c) his mother will be sold to another master and separated from him; d) they’ll both be sold to different masters; or e) they’ll both be sold to a new master who might treat them in a much more abominable fashion. Imagine the resentment and frustration that kind of life must result in. Now, here comes the Jedi Order. Here’s his chance at a better life, and maybe – just maybe, the chance to free his mother once he’s become a full-fledged Jedi (something I am reasonably certain was at the back of his mind when he left with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan). At first, the Council rejects him – major blow! When they do change their minds he’s finally accepted, but rather grudgingly, and only because a) Yoda had a great "swing vote", and b) they don’t want him to be snapped up by the Sith Lords. Then, he’s labeled the “Chosen One”. So, he now has to live up to this label, and show them that he’s worth their decision to “break” the recruitment rules in taking him in. Enter now Obi-Wan Kenobi, who’s under tremendous pressure to make a Knight out of him. So, even if Obi-Wan does have avuncular – or even paternal – feelings for him, a lot of that is smothered under the weight of his double responsibility to prove that he can teach the “Chosen One” and that his own Master (Qui-Gon) wasn’t wrong in standing up for the boy. Hence the many, many lectures “Not another lecture, Master!”, and the almost constant criticism. This is the kind of life Anakin had to live, day after day, for ten long years. In a sense, Anakin’s every waking moment is spent trying to meet so many expectations that his life has become one giant expectation. There’s never a moment of rest, never a minute to really think his own thoughts, never a second to let down his guard, because the minute he slips up, there goes the chance to become a Jedi, free his mother, and finally – finally! – have some sort of control over his life. Now let’s look at Padme. A child prodigy, by all accounts (I remember reading in the book that her academic performance was superlative), she was one of the youngest – although not the youngest – statespersons of her planet. Granted, she chose a life of service, but we are told by her father (in the book) that it’s considered part of being a good citizen of Naboo to “give back” to the planet. And, let’s not forget that after two terms as Queen, she was asked by the new Queen to continue serving, this time as a Senator. Again, another major responsibility, except that now, there’s an added dimension of being your planet’s representative to the entire Galactic Senate. She’s taken on so much responsibility for so long, she probably feels that it’s her duty to stay in politics, and – hmm, will I get “torched” for this? – that people may think less of her if she refuses to serve again. To a certain degree, she’s come to live her life according to her people’s expectations of her, and like I said, in that kind of life, there’s no room for letting your true self step forward, for really speaking your mind, or for letting your feelings out. It’s a life lived in a fishbowl, and often, by other people’s rules. Undomiel, you said a couple of pages back that the “comfort zone” is usually associated with a parent or a sibling, someone you’ve know for a long, long time. While that’s true in most cases, it can be different for some people, as it is for Anakin. I, for instance, am very close to my mother – especially since my dad died 3 years ago, and my only sibling (my older sister) passed away in 1990, so it’s just my mom and me now – but there are still some ideas, thoughts and feelings that I can’t share with her. It doesn’t mean I love my mom any less – it’s just that I felt I had to live up to some of her expectations of me, so I never really let everything hang loose. Do you know who my “comfort zone” is? A male friend of mine who I met when he was 18 and I was 17 – the moment we were introduced, he gave me a mischievous grin, and I knew, right there and then, that we would be the greatest of friends, and we still are, through his marriage and three children. In Anakin’s case, he literally and figuratively has NO ONE to turn to, except for his memories of Padme. He loves his mom, but his memories of her are associated with his life on Tatooine, a life he never wants to return to – and, as he says to Padme just before they leave for Tatooine, his memory of her is fading. He apparently has not friends among his fellow "Padawan", and someone mentioned that a few of them might even resent him for his "exalted" status -- believe me, that is VERY possible. Padme, on the other hand, represents the life he dreams of having, a life of peace and serenity on a planet that nurtures rather than tortures, a life where he’s loved for himself, and not either expected to save the entire Jedi Order or exploited for his talents. He may not have been able to talk to her in those 10 years they were apart, but the tenderness in his memories of her serves as his “touchstone”, and his sanctuary in a life and a training regimen that can – Obi-Wan himself describes it as humiliating (in the book) – be very trying on a person’s sense of self. Heaven knows Anakin can’t say anything beyond the occasional “I worry about my mom” to Obi-Wan (remember the reaction he got when he said "I'd rather dream of Padme"?), who’s already rather wrapped up in making sure the Chosen One fulfills his potential – and that he himself doesn’t foul up as a teacher! I can imagine Anakin in moments of loneliness, retreating to that “quiet place” in his soul, where he would probably imagine himself with Padme, talking about life on Naboo and their dreams. I know I’ve done that several times, thinking of my friend, his calm manner of speaking, and his quiet, steady strength. In Padme’s case, I think she’s come to realize that it’s time she lived her life for herself. I am a career person, and I have to admit that I haven’t had a vacation in all the fifteen years I’ve been working. Some days it gets to a point that I would give all of this up in a minute for a life spent with someone who loves me, will put a premium on my happiness, and will say to me “You don’t have to work if you don’t want to, I’ll take care of everything”. (Why do I get the feeling I may be torched for this? Ha ha!) I support my mom, and while it is tremendously fulfilling to know that I can now give her a relatively comfortable old age, there are days when I can’t help but wish for a shoulder to lean on from time to time, someone with whom I can lay down my responsibilities and simply be myself, someone who can be strong for me in those times when I simply want to rest my spirit. Someone who’ll care about me not because I’m blood kin, because I’ve got some sort of ability that’s useful, or because I can do something for them, but simply because I’M ME, eccentricities and weird ideas included. If Anakin seems to be complaining too vociferously, he’s already given us the reason why – he’s damned frustrated with everything. He knows he’s gone far in his training, but his Master keeps lecturing him on just about everything, criticizes his every action, and generally, seems to have very little confidence in him – let’s admit, folks, Obi-Wan can sometimes sound as if he’s talking to an 8-year old boy instead of a 20-year old Padawan: “Don’t do anything without clearing it with either me or the Council”, or words to that effect. There is only so much a person can take. And if you consider that this “holding him back” is keeping him from finally getting his mother off Tatooine, well, that’s why he’s just so bitter and angry in his “confession scene”. Some people may see the whining adolescent, but there’s an underlying bitterness there, which makes the sense of frustration even more terrifying. If Padme seems to be a cold fish, consider that she’s had to live her life in a profession where just about everything you say and do is open to speculation and misinterpretation. You have to learn to “hold your cards close to your chest”, and after a while, you learn to be as impassive as possible, never betraying your thoughts to people who may yet use them against you. If she seems to be ambiguous about Anakin, it’s probably because she’s scared of how things will pan out – remember, she’s pretty much lived her life within certain boundaries, and when you’ve gotten used to that, you tend to be scared of stepping out from what’s become familiar and predictable to you (something I can speak of from experience). Fear of the unknown is what we call it, right? – and heaven knows love, tenderness and desire from a young man are very much an unknown element for Padme. Despite what she may have said about Palo in the meadow, for all we know it was just a schoolgirl crush for the cute guy in the front row -- certainly nothing like what she feels for Anakin. I think Anakin and Padme have found in each other – and yes, Anakin gets to this point first before Padme – someone who will ACCEPT them and LOVE them for what they are, not for what they can do or for their usefulness. With each other, they can be completely and openly themselves, without fear of rejection or the burden of expectations that already weigh very heavily on their hearts and souls. How many of us can honestly say that we’ve really found that kind of a person, someone who’s our anchor in a world that can oftentimes be truly crazy and sometimes cruel, someone whose acceptance of our shortcomings is our inspiration for trying to become better persons? This is what Padme and Anakin are to each other – the one constant that will always be there, regardless of what politics or the Jedi Order may make out of them or demand from them. Now imagine what it will be like for each of them, if they’re faced with the prospect of losing each other. And suddenly, they’re given a second chance at life … wouldn’t you want to commit yourself too, just like they did? Some people say that they should’ve had an affair – I think that would cheapen what they feel for each other, and as far as their kind of love is concerned, it’s an “all or nothing” situation; it’s either this person, or no one at all, because no one can ever be what this person is to you. And, when all is said and done, the next time around, you might not cheat death so easily – and then, you won’t even have the chance to regret the heaven you let slip through your fingers. Sorry about this novella – I let my typing fingers and my thoughts run away with me . Hope I made some sense here … I promise to make things a lot shorter – and more lucid? – next time. Undomiel, our scars – literally and figuratively – only make us stronger. -----signature----- "The heart has reasons that reason will never know." -- Unknown Come join me while I tell you about "The Hour of Separation". http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=8438646 "A heart once given cannot be bestowed elsewhere." -- Nora Lofts
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Lukecash Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 7/1/02 8:57pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Actually, some of the boys work for a living. And on top of that, I am on the west coast. Now heres the thing that kinda bothers me. Vader was SUCH a cool villian. I mean, there seemed to be no weakness in him at all. He mean, powerful and had a very wicked sense of humor. All of this Anakin stuff is really wrecking havock with that image. But of course, this is what Lucas intended. To show good go bad. It worries me that he seems to be backpedaling on his original promise that Episode III was going to be the darkest of all. One of the comments I heard about the movie was that-they knew that the slaughter scene was a dark time. They said that Hayden did a wonderful job with that scene...but they didn't really FEEL that it was a terrible We've seen them form a bond in Episode I. We saw them have a happy little courtship/romance in Episode II. Episode III needs to be the most gut-wrenching end to a relationship there ever was. It has to be painful, it has to be horrible. And the it HAS to be because of Anakins choice. Or perhaps Anakin goes so far, that he looses the Love of Padme. I think way too many of you are seeing that Anakin as a victim. He is not. Personally, it would be a most chilling scene if we have a repeat of ROTJ. Instead of the Emperor zapping Luke...he is frying Padme. And Anakin does absolutely nothing about it. -----signature----- Boss Nass and Captian Tarpalis were brave, compentent warriors.- my words that will alway haunt me. You were right about one thing master, the negotiations were short"- ob-wani To expect Star Wars to be anything but itself is courting doom-me being wise
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Jedi_Lyn Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 7/1/02 9:22pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	master windu: what a great post. it is great you can feel for both Anakin and Padme. I think Anakin's frustration remind me of a 'single child symdrum'. not just a single child, take any child, when your parant/guardian bestow extra worries on you, they actually try to be resonsible for everything you do, by putting them in your brain as the constant yeller. it gets so depressing. I mean look at Anakin. He says 'obiwan will be really grumpy' when he is cutting that infamous pear! he says 'obiwan is going to kill me' when his lightsaber breaks in the droid factory. Obiwan is omnipresent. And why is that bad? because the kid is never gonna learn to pull himself up and be responsible. If anything he do is his own choice, it tends to be a rebelious choice. The right choice? they don't make the right choice coz it is their guardian's job to make them. they wait on their guardian to make that choice for them. they are not aware it is THEIR own life they are living. that is the worst part. and it takes a whole lot of pain to fix that, once you have been there. that is why a loving and approving parant is so important. I wish obiwan is different, but I can understand him. it is just Anakin is very immature when it comes to make his own choice. he is never clear, that what obiwan is doing is trying to help him, not trying to dictate him. in this sense, obiwan does function as a father. -----signature----- What was silent is now in retreat Nothing was to be marked from the beginning Except the acknowledge
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Yodave27 Registered: Feb '01	Date Posted: 7/1/02 9:23pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Personally, it would be a most chilling scene if we have a repeat of ROTJ. Instead of the Emperor zapping Luke...he is frying Padme. And Anakin does absolutely nothing about it. I hope it doesn't pan out that way and I don't think it will, either, here's why. 1. While he does evil things as Vader, we still need to feel that at the end he has somehow redeemed himself. If he lets his wife die, it cheapens the love he feels for his son. After all, Luke is a product of Anakin and Padme's love. 2. Anakin never do anything to hurt Padme-intentionally. He would never inflict physical pain on her, its not his style. Oh, he'll go toe to toe with Obi Wan, but he would never hurt his Padme. 3. All that said, she needs to reject him in order for him to dive head first into the darkness. Whether she dies or literally rejects what he has become, to allow Anakin to become Vader. And I know it will never happen, but I would love to see Padme face off against the man in black. All the while she calls him Anakin instead of Vader. After all, the only other person to do that was Luke. Even Obi Wan called him Darth. -----signature----- The 2008 New York Mets: insert gag noises here Different verse, same as the first.
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Lord Mauly Mall Title: TFN/JC Banner Artist Team Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 7/1/02 9:24pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	-----signature----- ¤TheForce.net staff http://www.myspace.com/benovite http://www.youtube.com/user/Benovite ¤ The irony was not lost on him.
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anakin-player Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 7/1/02 9:33pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Here's a question that I've been thinking about for the last few days. I've seen it touched on in some fan fiction, but not anywhere else. Who's idea do you think it was to get married? His, hers, or ?? His definitly. I think he probably was a total emotional wreck after the events in the movie. During this episode he suffered through the death of his mom, his loss in the battle to Dooku(which probably was hard hit to his enflated ego), the loss of his arm, the fear of revealing too much to Obi-Wan regarding his feelings towards Padme, and last but not least the guilt over murdering the women and children in the Sand People camp. Hmm, interesting to say the least. I think it was Padme's idea for the marriage because she was the one chasing after him in the second half of the movie. It was her who said that she loved him and not the other way around. In fact, Anakin never told Padme that he loved her. Padme became more and more attached to Anakin as the movie progressed, so it is logical to assume that she was the one who wanted to get married. Anakin seemed surprised by her declaration of love, so it was probably Padme who pushed for marriage. In the novel, Padme stated that she wanted a family, so she probably wanted to marry Anakin to have kids. -----signature----- “If you would not be forgotten, as soon as you are dead & rotten, either write things worth reading, or do things worth the writing.” -Benjamin Franklin
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Jedi_Lyn Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 7/1/02 9:35pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	yodaved27: i agree with you, having vader zapping Padme not only cheapens Anakin, it cheapens vader as well. What kinda loser zaps his wife? and how can you make that a PG movie? i mean, what a role model for kids? and what about us female fans? also I believe Padme is brave enough to face the man in black. she is one strong woman. look at shmi, how fine she is! we have paid our tribute to motherly love and we demands to see Padme in her full grace and beauty. the beauty of a brave heart, I mean. -----signature----- What was silent is now in retreat Nothing was to be marked from the beginning Except the acknowledge
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MASTER-WINDU Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 7/1/02 9:45pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Jedi Lyn, thank you! You brightened my day! I agree with you about Anakin and the "only child" symdrome, and Obi-Wan's "over-protectiveness". Isn't it great how we are now seeing more and more dimensions to the personalities of the SW people? Well, having lived with very loving but rather over-protective parents (because my sister and I grew up with some heart problems), I see your point. My mom, especially, tends to try and make lots of my decisions for me, even at my age (mid-30s). I have to keep gently reminding her -- or we might end up arguing -- that I am over 21 and have learned to weight things before I make a decision. I'm having the time of my life! Keep your ideas coming! -----signature----- "The heart has reasons that reason will never know." -- Unknown Come join me while I tell you about "The Hour of Separation". http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=8438646 "A heart once given cannot be bestowed elsewhere." -- Nora Lofts
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anakin-player Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 7/1/02 9:56pm Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread. - Date Edited: 7/1/02 10:07pm (2 edits total) Edited By: anakin-player
	I mean look at Anakin. He says 'obiwan will be really grumpy' when he is cutting that infamous pear! he says 'obiwan is going to kill me' when his lightsaber breaks in the droid factory. Obiwan is omnipresent. Jedi_Lyn Anakin knows that he shouldn't be using the force for his own amusement in the infamous pear scene. He knows what he is doing is wrong but does it anyway. That's why he says that obiwan will be grumpy. He willingly breaks the rules that obiwan has told him not to. As for the lightsaber, Obiwan has warned him numerous times to take care of his lightsaber. However, he manages to lose/damage it again. Anakin for some reason cannot follow the rules that are given to him. He knows he should do better and Obiwan expects more out of him, that's why he is afraid of Obiwan's harsh criticism. I don't blame ObiWan for his constant reprimanding because Anakin should learn to follow the rules. Obi has probably become frustrated after telling Anakin for 10 years to follow the rules. Anakin just doesn't seem to listen very well. Looks like attention deficit disorder to me. -----signature----- “If you would not be forgotten, as soon as you are dead & rotten, either write things worth reading, or do things worth the writing.” -Benjamin Franklin
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