Jedi Council Forums - **Official** Love Story discussion thread.

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Author	Topic: Official Love Story discussion thread.
Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 12:50am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Padme's probably had similar problems. People pledging all kinds of things to her IF she will only do this or that. Anakin comes along and shows her he likes her just the way she is, for who she is inside and out, he puts no demands on her. Considering she's use to having people put all kinds of conditions on her in order to gain their approval, finally she meets someone who just wants her period -- no IF's involved.
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Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 12:55am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	That's got to be pretty heady stuff for a young woman, like Padme.
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Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 1:09am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Master Windu, Wonder when the men will finally catch up with us when it comes to recognizing heroines? It'll never happen as long as they insist on pointing the finger right back at you. Which has been the case for years. It's a maze with no way out except abiding by the rules of the maze, which strictly forbid anything but compliance. In other words, asking for someone to accept you as you are results in having a mirror stuck in your face: "Well do YOU like what you see?" YES, YES I DO! FOR GADS SAKE!
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MASTER-WINDU Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 1:13am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Just when I said I would be quiet ... ITA, Mistress Undomiel. That is especially true with some politicians, they'll promise you the moon if you'll go along with them, then turn around and betray you. That's what's so moving about Anakin and Padme's love for each other ... in the final analysis, they each think of the other FIRST before anything else, even their own futures. Their promises -- and the risks they are each willing to take for their love, by the time the movie ends -- aren't premised on anything but the simple wish to love, and give to. and be with, the other. If that isn't true love, I don't know what is. James Cameron said "The greatest of loves can only be measured against the greatest of adversities, and the greatest of sacrifices thus defined." And now, I really will keep quiet for a while ... -----signature----- "The heart has reasons that reason will never know." -- Unknown Come join me while I tell you about "The Hour of Separation". http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=8438646 "A heart once given cannot be bestowed elsewhere." -- Nora Lofts
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Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 1:21am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Master Windu, The greatest of loves can only be measured against the greatest of adversities, and the greatest of sacrifices thus defined This is putting conditions on love that simply aren't necessary unless the people involved are that insistant on the inherents implications of perfection in sacrifice. Sacrifice indicates "IFs" again. IF you'll only sacrifice this or that for me, I'll know you love me. While this may be true in the worship of a GOD, it isn't and shouldn't be a requirement in a relationship between two people. Instead, it will happen naturally if the love is evident. It may not all happen immediately, or in any particular order, but it will, with mutual love and respect, HAPPEN! If the mutual love and respect is missing or coerced or loaded with "IFs", it won't happen. Plain and simple. Part of the human condition is recognizing it in yourself, allowing your partner to be human as well, which will inevitably inspire both to be better people.
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Lukecash Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 7/2/02 1:29am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Of course, you ladies realize that Anakin doesn't really love Padme. He's obsessive about her. He wants to own her. He loves the idealof Padme. He's in love with the dream of Padme. Look again closely at conversations between Anakin and Obiwan and Anakin and Padme. First of all, Anakin cannot see that Palpatine and Padme are politicians. While Padme may be on the up and up. Anakin thinks Mr. Snake himself is honorable. He also tells Obi-wan that he has nothing but bad dreams about his mother in the past month. He also states that he prefered it when he didn't have dream. Now switch to Padme. He claimes to dream about her every night. We know this to be a lie. She believes in democracy-He thinks the system is broken and that people should be MADE to listen to reason. When she ask who should make the decisions. He admits HE isn't the man for the job. When she pionts out that this is a dictatorship, he says "Whatever works" He's not joking. Of course she thinks he is....and he laughs it off...and says "Oh yeah right, that's the ticket......I would be much to scared to mock a senator..." Notice he doesn't look at her at this point. He smiles, looks at his feet. He knows his actual feelings about the situation would turn her off. So what does he do? Laugh it off and change the subject. His idea of a good time is to pretend to be injured, thus scaring the heck out of a girl. His idea of fun is to dive right towards a really big ship and see how close he can come to it. Okay, romantics....can you SEE the damn warning signs? And when he admits his "love"-It's been noted that Anakin doesn't say I love you. If you notice- Anakin says how HE cant breath without HER. It's how HE is SUFFERING without her acceptance. I would say this boy doesn't care that she would probabbly him to say something positive. Like "you know, you light up the room with that smile" Oh no, he's in HELL because of her...and she better feel like she's in HELL as well. Oh and slaughtering a whole tribe of tuskens isn't a cry for help. It's a singal for a girl to walk slowly back to the door, and contact the Jedi Council People in White shirts with a big Butterlfy net. He's got the black outfit going on...the only thing to make it complete would be a tatoo on his arm. It would have a lightsaber through a heart that says..."Mother" -----signature----- Boss Nass and Captian Tarpalis were brave, compentent warriors.- my words that will alway haunt me. You were right about one thing master, the negotiations were short"- ob-wani To expect Star Wars to be anything but itself is courting doom-me being wise
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MASTER-WINDU Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 1:35am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	"It'll never happen as long as they insist on pointing the finger right back at you. Which has been the case for years. It's a maze with no way out except abiding by the rules of the maze, which strictly forbid anything but compliance. In other words, asking for someone to accept you as you are results in having a mirror stuck in your face: "Well do YOU like what you see?" YES, YES I DO! FOR GADS SAKE! " A very thought-provoking post, Mistress Undomiel. (Hope you don't mind that I call you that, you sound like what I imagine Mace Windu would be like if he were female.) I will indeed meditate on it. But damn, it is annoying when they do that to us. I discussed this with a female friend of mine who's married, and she said, "Well hey, would I be able to love and accept you the way you are, if I don't love and accept myself the way I am?" True indeed, yes? OK, now I really, really will be quiet for a while ... -----signature----- "The heart has reasons that reason will never know." -- Unknown Come join me while I tell you about "The Hour of Separation". http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=8438646 "A heart once given cannot be bestowed elsewhere." -- Nora Lofts
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Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 1:38am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Luke Cash, He's not joking. I recognize this. It reminds me of the difference between the legalism of judaism and the acceptance of christianity. One says "YOU WILL OBEY AND SACRIFICE!" The other says, "THE SACRIFICE IS ALREADY PAID. YOU NEED ONLY REALIZE IT." Anakin is a legalistic follower, who says, "OBEY AND SACRIFICE, OR ELSE..." I have rarely, if ever, put these kinds of demands on my own children. I've always given them a way out of absolutes to show them that life isn't about forcing your will on others. If there's an Anakin in my household, then he isn't my blood and will be shortly shown the door.
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Lukecash Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 7/2/02 1:40am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	You know, I would take women a heck of a lot more seriously if they actually MENT that they would take a normal guy without the porsce, or rolex, or whatever. Nope, women are attracted to tusken slaughering bad boys. Now Jar Jar BINKS is the guy you are actually after. He would be more than happy to follow you home and love you. He's always up beat, sincere, a bit on the innocent side...so that means he isn't cynical. And he takes whatever job he gets very seriously. And he listens to others. And does what make them happy. Heck, he even realized that his buddy Palpatine needed help to save the Republic. So, I give you two of Star Wars greatest males role models. Choose, padme, choose -----signature----- Boss Nass and Captian Tarpalis were brave, compentent warriors.- my words that will alway haunt me. You were right about one thing master, the negotiations were short"- ob-wani To expect Star Wars to be anything but itself is courting doom-me being wise
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Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 1:54am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Master Windu, "Well hey, would I be able to love and accept you the way you are, if I don't love and accept myself the way I am?" How true! So then it comes down to who will interpret what self-love is! Will you rely on someone else's example or will you follow your own understanding of it? This is a real stickler. If I say I recognize self-love to be x,y, and z, and then don't follow it to the "T", the legalistic side says, "Sorry, you don't love you because you aren't following your own tenets of what self-love is to the "T", so I don't love you, and you don't love me!" This takes on various shortened forms such as referring to you as a "hypocrite". That's a crock and a half. It just means that you are still working on you. If they don't like the speed at which you are arriving at your self-love solutions, they can find a new friend/wife/husband/enemy/WHATEVER. lol
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Lukecash Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 7/2/02 2:00am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread. - Date Edited: 7/2/02 2:01am (1 edits total) Edited By: Lukecash
	By the way, Love isn't about adversary, tragedy or any such things. It is not defined by sacrafice or courage or mirrors. It is not a reflection. Love is acceptance. Love is equilibrium. Love is balance. It is Ying and Yang. Do not blame men for not seeing what you do not show. Do not blame women for missing what you do not offer. All men want is some one who won't take advantage of what we can offer. We want somenoe we can talk too with out judgement. We don't want to be change- we don't want them to change. We want to grow old together, but not loose ourselves. You aren't the aswere to my problems, I am not the asnwer to your problems. If you are wrong I will tell you, If I am wrong I will apologize. These things are things that Padme and Anakin did not say to eachother. These are things that Han and Leia did offer eachother. There is no such thing as true love. There is only love. - Edid: See what lack of sleep gets ya! -----signature----- Boss Nass and Captian Tarpalis were brave, compentent warriors.- my words that will alway haunt me. You were right about one thing master, the negotiations were short"- ob-wani To expect Star Wars to be anything but itself is courting doom-me being wise
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Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 2:01am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Luke Cash, I don't have to choose. All I have to worry about is making me a better person, which will in turn make my better half an even better person. This is how I could recognize him in a sea of faces! He would be the one person not trying to change me or insist I choose between absolutes. He knows me THAT well.
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Grilled-Sarlacc Title: Former Head Admin Registered: Jul '01	Date Posted: 7/2/02 2:04am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	I don't stop by here often, but Luke Cash hit the nail on the head for me too. That is exactly how I feel. -----signature----- Hi. I like Star Wars.
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Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 2:05am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Luke Cash, I don't have to choose. All I have to worry about is making me a better person, which will in turn make my better half an even better person. This is how I could recognize him in a sea of faces! He would be the one person not trying to change me or insist I choose between absolutes. He knows me THAT well.
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MASTER-WINDU Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 2:08am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	"This is putting conditions on love that simply aren't necessary unless the people involved are that insistant on the inherents implications of perfection in sacrifice. Sacrifice indicates "IFs" again. IF you'll only sacrifice this or that for me, I'll know you love me. While this may be true in the worship of a GOD, it isn't and shouldn't be a requirement in a relationship between two people. Instead, it will happen naturally if the love is evident. It may not all happen immediately, or in any particular order, but it will, with mutual love and respect, HAPPEN! If the mutual love and respect is missing or coerced or loaded with "IFs", it won't happen. Plain and simple. Part of the human condition is recognizing it in yourself, allowing your partner to be human as well, which will inevitably inspire both to be better people." Of course, I didn't mean the quote to represent a "precondition" on love. Actually, I included it to illustrate the depth of our protagonists' love for each other, as we see it grow and develop -- that each was willing to act on that love despite the "forbidden" aspect (hence the adversities), and give up so much for the other, not as a precondition, but, as you said, because it happened naturally, because they did love each other -- particularly in Anakin's case. Indeed, Padme told him at the "infamous" fireplace scene that she didn't want him to jeopardize his future, but he was willing to do it anyway. It's raining now, and it's getting cold in my building ... I'm getting really sleepy now, and I guess my thoughts are getting muddled. So, bye for now to everyone. Mistress Undomiel, hope you're feeling OK, despite the side-effects of the treatments. -----signature----- "The heart has reasons that reason will never know." -- Unknown Come join me while I tell you about "The Hour of Separation". http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=8438646 "A heart once given cannot be bestowed elsewhere." -- Nora Lofts
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