Jedi Council Forums - **Official** Love Story discussion thread.

Jedi Council Forums » Star Wars Films » Attack of the Clones »

Locked Topic | Read Only Topic | Previous Active Topic | Next Active Topic

« 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 | 67 | 68 | 69 » - Previous | Next | Reload

Author	Topic: Official Love Story discussion thread.
Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 2:21am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Then it can be safely said that initially, Padme and Anakin's relationship starts off on the right foot. Because, from the outset, he accepted her unconditionally, which was a step in the right direction. What transpires between them in the next movie will determine what happened to his unconditional love. For certain, he doesn't hold the same unconditional love for anyone else EXCEPT Padme (that is, since the passing of his mother). This may be the point of contention. How can he be so loving and understanding towards his woman and yet slaughter an entire tribe of Tuskens. The answer is obvious. He only has unconditional love towards those he feels deserve it. The Tuskens, in his way of thinking, must not have deserved it. Again, this is the difference between legalism and salvation. The legalistic mindset says, "Do! or Else!" Salvation says, "The Doing's been done already." Anakin's caught up in the "Do! or Else!" syndrome for anyone he doesn't hold unconditional love for. Sadly, this means only an extremely minute percentage of the population would ever be worthy in his eyes. Talking about elitist.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Jedi_Lyn Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 3:52am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	[wakes up and turn on the computer, gasp] this thread should be called 'while you were sleeping'!!! -----signature----- What was silent is now in retreat Nothing was to be marked from the beginning Except the acknowledge
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 4:23am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	But I'm awake!
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Jedi_Lyn Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 6:13am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	undomiel: how are you getting along with your sleep and all? -----signature----- What was silent is now in retreat Nothing was to be marked from the beginning Except the acknowledge
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 7:17am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Fine. I slept for a few hours and later today, I'll probably sleep for a few more. Why?
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
jedi-ES Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 7:29am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Luke_Cash, I didn't see a whole lot in your post to convince me that Anakin was obsessive over Padme instead of loved her. Politics aren't a reason not to love someone. He says to Jar Jar that not a day has gone by that he hasn't thought of her, not that he has dreamed about her every day. Him faking to be hurt, IMHO, is a classic "ploy" by men. I thought it was funny and smart on his part at the same time. It is also a good indicator as to how much she cares for him. Would it have been better if all he did was compliment her instead of being honest about his feelings? He was laying it all on the table and letting her know all that he felt, that is why he is talking about himself, and not her; another indication that he is not forcing his opinion of her on her, but allowing her to be her. And finally, how many men have not been in "hell" if he could not be with his beloved. It seems to me that that is a precondition for love, that you cannot live without that person. And once again concerning Padme's fate, for which I don't want to get into that much on this thread, I fear that all you need to know lies in the statements of Palpy, Dooku, and Anakin in AOTC. I hope I am wrong, but if you hear closely to the words, I think that they give the indication. I also agree that he has unconditional love for Padme, and I don't think that he would ever leave her. -----signature----- "I write for the youth of my generation, the critics of the next, and the schoolmasters of ever afterward." "God gives each his due at the time allotted." THE Trojan Horse. Petition! http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/jedistyletraining
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
IamZam Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 7:37am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	WOW. Get over-tired go to bed early and everybody and their Uncle Bob comes out to play!! Welcome back L_C, glad we didnt' scare you away. I felt like such a wicked witch.. Windu - Great Post I totally agree with you. And its also why I feel the Romeo and Juliet/Pyramis and Thisbe angle is how its gonna play. They violated the wall between them and the fates will not be kind, in return. They will pay dearly for that. I also truly believe that as long as either one believe the other is alive they will fight everything tooth and nail to be together. Following what you said, once you have something like that in your life you will battle hell and earth to keep it. They will not give up each other with out one hell of a fight. They only time either of them is happy, relaxed adn totally themselves is when they are alone away from the rest of the universe. They complete each other, understand each other and will cling desperately to each other when ever possible as the galaxy plunges deeper into the intragalcactic equivilant of WWI/WWII rolled up together. Now to wade thru the the other 500 posts I have yet to get too. Sheesh... -----signature----- "But my dreams They aren't as empty As my conscience seems to be.... No one knows what it's like to be the bad man, to be the sad man behind blue eyes....." The Who Anakin didn't just fall - he was pushed
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 7:49am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	PLJ, And finally, how many men have not been in "hell" if he could not be with his beloved. It seems to me that that is a precondition for love, that you cannot live without that person. When some men get to Luke_Cash's age, they lose touch with what was important to them when they were 20 years old. My husband commented on this the other day. He said, "What is it with young guys? They seem to think sex is so important." I stared at him for several moments in horror. These words were coming from the mouth of my once very virile and sexually aggressive husband. It was both a shocking and illuminating moment. This might also explain why women in their peak sexual years are more prone to enjoy romance. Look at Anakin, he's young, virile and romantic. What woman wouldn't reminisce a little like women everywhere did when they watched TITANIC. I had always held the belief that young men and older women were the perfect match, sexually, because both have equally strong sex drives. However, sexual viracity is all they have in common. Other things like maturity, life experience, etc, make young man/older woman scenarios rare, tough and complicated. In addition, the societal norm is askew, so it has delibitating social stigma attached to it. I just found that out today, in very strong words, when I was refused entrance to READ (not participate, just READ) a Star Wars RPG because I was too old according to the person in charge of the RPG (who, btw, was also a female, she was just several years younger and I guess she decided it was a judgement call on her part). So, whereas women of all ages, and especially women in their late twenties and thirties, really enjoy the romance and emotion of Anakin, more mature men can't hardly stand the guy. They begin scrutinizing him in detail. Looking for chinks in his armor like they would if he were a rival for their own harem of women. He's not a rival, just a stereotype. A faulty stereotype, at that. A romantic ideal. But then men have their own sexy ideal women.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
IamZam Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 8:10am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	I think they both wanted the happy home life with two kids and a dog. Sadly neither of them is the type of person who would be happy with that life, they both want more (if that is the right term). They have the adventure lust, but both of them have spent so much of their young lives in service to others in one, form or another, that they are grabbing the first chance they have for a little personal happiness. Anakin may never come right out and say I love you, but every action, deed, and thought of his towards her positively screams it. You don't jump out on your dreams for just anybody. And if you watch the way he kisses her and looks at her, well that aint just hormones. This boy worships her, holds her in awe and would give up his life for her with out a second thought. Its there in every little thing, all thru the movie. She clearly shows it, but has to say it, to admit it to herself as much as to Anakin. They are co-conspirators. She knows he is torn between his duty and his heart. She knows the conflict, but unlike the order she puts Anakin first, instead of his duty. She is there as the support. She takes him seriously and doesn't poo poo his dreaams. (Obi wan in his defense, wasn't being a bad parent, simply one who wholey had no idea where Anakin was comming from, and who was more concerned with duty and the "right" thing). And when he needs someone he can trust enough to fall apart on, she is there to clean up the pieces. She is there when Obi Wan is taken to give him the excuse (in Anakin Logic) to go after him. They work as one, leading each other on thru the wall and down the path to thier eventual tragic end. But at least they get to enjoy a few flowers on the way. I also agree with the single child syndrome. AS a single mother with one child, I probably understand a little too well. I can see very well where Obi Wan is comming from in many ways, and Shmi as well. My son is 9 and he wants to grow up and move on, but I am not ready to let him. His job is to rebel, my job is to keep him from getting killed in the process. Its quite the battle. Something as simple as riding his bike to school on his own, can become a major battle. Because the bike is a metaphor for something much bigger. When the little boy stops being a little boy, it can be very hard for those closest too see it, as it happens so slowly. But the reason I think some people have a harder time with it, is they only see the surface behavior and not the underlying emotional and psychological reasons behind it. I don't see Anakin as a a victim. He made his choices, I am just explaining some of the underlying reasons, and motivations for the choices he made, and why he is the way he is. I mean I imagine those first few weeks were hell, and He sure as hell wouldn't have been able to break down or show anybody how he was feeling. HE sure as heck wasn't going to show Obi Wan how much pain he was in. He had to prove himself and how tough he was. He would have had to give the stiff lip, Jedi don't cry act in front of everyone. But when he was alone and could retreat into his own private spaces, we all know whose presence was there to comfort him. -----signature----- "But my dreams They aren't as empty As my conscience seems to be.... No one knows what it's like to be the bad man, to be the sad man behind blue eyes....." The Who Anakin didn't just fall - he was pushed
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
IamZam Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 8:18am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	AMEN TO THAT, Mistress Undomiel! Hey, if there's anything that's really annoying it's the "I'll love you forever, as long as you ..." Take me the way I am, or take a hike! We deserve better, don't we? Why should we settle for anything less? Two thumbs up!! True love in my book means warts, farts and pimples. I take you for good, bad, happiness, tradgedy, good times, bad times, come what may. It means I will not abandon someone the first time things get hard. So what if she isn't the same person she was 20 years ago, no body is. I am so sick of this , I love you, but you have to promise to stay this way, or never get fat, or never go bald, or (oh lord hear we go again..). IT means work dammit!! It means you accept someone for who they are, warts, and wonders all in one package. It means seeing beyond the wrapper to the package underneath. Sometimes there does come a point where it does have to end, but that should be a last resort, not the first thing you do the first time the ship hits a couple bumps. -----signature----- "But my dreams They aren't as empty As my conscience seems to be.... No one knows what it's like to be the bad man, to be the sad man behind blue eyes....." The Who Anakin didn't just fall - he was pushed
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
HappyPlace Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 8:24am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Wow, some very interesting posts again. Mace-Windu, I truly enjoyed all of your comments. Here's my thoughts: Padme might have been Anakin's ideal before he met her again, but ideals rarely live up to expectations, so my feeling is that if he really felt something so shallow for her, her actions toward him would have put him off quickly. She was definitely (superficially at least) not being all sweet and receptive to him in the beginning. Obsessive men don't stick around strong women for long periods! They like control and that is something Anakin did not really have in this relationship. Anakin saves Padme's life a number of times and in several of those, he made a choice between his OWN safety and future, and HER life. He chose her every time. To me, that says a lot. No, it is NOT a prerequisite for love, but a damn good indicator of where someone's true feelings lie. I don't think Anakin was a victim in everything, but I think we have to allow that circumstances play a large role in who we are. Anakin showed the signs of why Palpy could lure him to the dark side in this movie: he feels to much for the few selected people he allows into his heart: his mom and Padme. And when something goes wrong with these people, he has trouble controlling his reactions. His speech in the garage is a huge sign about things to come IMO. He wanted to be so powerful that he could stop people he loved from dying. How hard would it be for Palpy to make Ani think Padme was either dead or dying and if he joined the Dark Side, he would be able to save her. Essentially, his motives are pure, but his execution poor.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 8:30am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Zam, The problem is women in their sexual peak years are more prone to work harder at keeping the relationship intact because their drive to be attractive and amorous for their man is higher naturally. Men, on the other hand, when they reach their thirties and forties, began losing speed quickly. Men peak sexually at 18 and women at 30! This essentially means, that while the man is trying hard to be amorous and attractive at 20 years of age, the woman is just naturally more youthful and attractive, so there's very little work needed on either side. LATER, however, the man has lost most of his strong sexual drive and hasn't the impetus to be involved in keeping the romance going. He will continue to be a good provider in order to maintain his honor as a man and a husband, but he often leaves the finer details of the relationship up to the woman who, during her late twenties and early thirites, is more than willing to take up the slack because she's biologically geared for it. Unfortunately, poor health, injury and any other number of problems can put a serious crimp in this drive for the woman and then the relationship becomes an iceberg because neither person is working on it, the male having long since taken it for granted.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
SHAD0W-JEDI Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 8:36am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	This thread has wandered all over the place, so I don't think I can be accused of being "off topic" ... and as I have had my say re the Love Story 'working' or not (I did not find it especially convincing!) I will steer clear of that... But as to "men not liking Anakin" or HC... I frankly think the character was MEANT to be ambiguous, or to make us feel ambivalent. No shocking revelation there; clearly AOTC is full of foreshadowing of the fall to come, etc. But when folks describe Anakin as whiny, or petulant, etc... I think they are dead on, regardless of their genders...S And he is MEANT to be! Anakin is a very realistic portrayal of a certain kind of adolescent boy - arguably, perhaps, a bit immature for 19 (he IS 19, right, in the movie?) but quite believable nonetheless. He has many positive qualities, but he is chafing under the "parental control" of Obi-Wan and the Jedi, he is "full of himself" (with some justification) re his abilities and power, he is impatient with the generally more subtle, less direct approaches advocated by the Jedi, he feels it is time for him to be recognized on his own, as his "own man", more as a peer than a student. He also has a streak of (widely commented upon!) anger and a bit of a temper. Again - not at all unrealistic for a 19 year old, especially one with Anakin's gifts. Do "men" have problems with this? Well... that is a pretty broad comment. "Men" of 25, or 35, or...? Older men will, I suspect, feel a bit bemused - feeling kinship with the "parental" Obi-Wan but recalling their youth while watching Anakin. BUT... I do think it worth noting that this Anakin DOES end up becoming the mass-murdering Darth Vader. And he DOES slaughter the Tuskens in this episode. AND we ARE meant to be seeing signs of the character traits that will lead to his fall... pride, anger, etc. SO perhaps "having a problem" with Anakin is simply a reflection of good character judgement? At any rate..thanks for hearing me out. And while I said I wouldn't go there... all of the observations above contribute to my finding the love story less than credible... weird things happen in real life, but if you want to sell me that a woman of such extraordinary intelligence, life experience (again, the MOVIES give NO indication that Padme is romantically inexperienced - and if you think a career in politics precludes romance, please just take a look around!), compassion and general character, like Padme, is going to fall head over heels for a somewhat petulant "boy"... well...lets just say you have to be a heck of a good salesperson...;) Shadow
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
IamZam Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 8:44am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	I would take women a heck of a lot more seriously if they actually MENT that they would take a normal guy without the porsce, or rolex, or whatever. Well I spent 10 years of my life trying to make it work with a guy who couldn't afford a Timex much less a Rolex, adn who drove a 15 year old Dodge. WE may be attracted to the Robert Redfords of the world, but most of us settle down with Mr. Joe Average. As there are a lot mor Joe Averages than there are super babe magnets. And often times when one gets close they aren't always all the outside cracks them up to be. However that doesn't mean I have to give up window shopping. Nope, women are attracted to tusken slaughering bad boys. Would love to argue with you on this one, but sadly that would make me a hypocrite. Not all of us are, but some of us for sure. However the reverse can also be said, and has. Sigh Now Jar Jar BINKS is the guy you are actually after. He would be more than happy to follow you home and love you. He's always up beat, sincere, a bit on the innocent side...so that means he isn't cynical. NO comment I think he'd fall more into the puppy dog category. Cute but, after awhile it would quickly annoy the heck out of me. IT would be like being trapped in Barney hell. All men want is some one who won't take advantage of what we can offer. We want somenoe we can talk too with out judgement. We don't want to be change- we don't want them to change. We want to grow old together, but not loose ourselves. Speaking as a woman, I feel exactly the same way. I want someone who see's the real me, and loves me inspite of my faults. Some one I can share both the good and the bad with, and not have to put on a mask, or pretend to be something I am not. I want acceptance, and deep down I think everybody does. Do not blame men for not seeing what you do not show. Do not blame women for missing what you do not offer. Gravity Check yup things still fall downward. Water check yup still wet. Temperature check ahh this must be it. I knew somethign was wrong when I found somthing to totally agree with you about. IT is not the other person's job to complete us or fix us. WE need to do that for ourselves. clunk owe my head.... I dont' agree with you on the A/P romance, but there are definately other points where do actually make a lot of sense. Now if you'll exucse me, I need to get out of the sun.. -----signature----- "But my dreams They aren't as empty As my conscience seems to be.... No one knows what it's like to be the bad man, to be the sad man behind blue eyes....." The Who Anakin didn't just fall - he was pushed
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
IamZam Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/2/02 8:48am Subject: RE: Official Love Story discussion thread.
	Undomiel, You give me a headache... You make me think to much.. my brain can't handle it.. -----signature----- "But my dreams They aren't as empty As my conscience seems to be.... No one knows what it's like to be the bad man, to be the sad man behind blue eyes....." The Who Anakin didn't just fall - he was pushed
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History

« 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 | 67 | 68 | 69 » - Previous | Next | Reload

Jedi Council Forums » Star Wars Films » Attack of the Clones »