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Author	Topic: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
darth-sinister Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 6/7/02 4:47pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	Thank you FOTR. -----signature----- Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge." Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side. Something, something, something complete."
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Amra54621 Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 6/7/02 5:03pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	No need for further debate, I found an official episode storyboard that'll answer alot of questions. Turns out Sidious has been hiding under the Jedi noses for some time. check it out at http://www.cartoondreamteam.com/ep3_secret.swf
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Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 6/7/02 5:06pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	FOTR, I am on your side for the most part, HOWEVER, for the sake of clarifying your arguments, nay honing them to razor sharpness, I must take each point you've listed and apply Undomiel's CAT [Cynical Actuality Test] -There is no advantage for Sidious to take a Clone. It complicates things really. It does not complicate things if it means he doesn't have to micro- and macro-manage the universe all by his lonesome. -A clone is a biological replica, but cloning doesn't duplicate character, mind, experience, etc ... Ah but there is sufficient evidence to support the transference of temperament and therefore certain characteristics, including but not limited to, mannerisms, addictions, and physical identifiers, such as nervous tics, short temper, tendencies such as obsessive/compulsive disorders, etc. It's environmental, sociological and biological, not just one or the other. Which means that Sidious would have a lot of work to do to have his clone be both creative, intelligent (he has to be), and yet totally submited. He would inherit his templates intellectual capacity [providing intellect can be guaged on several factors relating to the formation of certain brain tissues relating to memory and associative skills] and gifts such as artistic skills and double-jointedness, physical oddities such as pigeon-toed, left-handedness, nock-knees, short-sighted, etc. If he has the power to do it with his dark side powers, why not control any weak minded senator or whatever rather than take a clone ? He plans on taking his place. ---> There is no good reason for Sidious to have a clone of himself be Chancellor. Any other solution would be better,simpler and safer than that !! This is an understatement and an oversimplification. -The whole point of Sidious/Palpatine is to show the rise of a tyran, how a dictator can destroy democracy. Palpatine has to be Sidious for it to work. Wrongo. He'd still be Sidious, just an extension of him, like an appendage. If Palpatine is just a muppet controlled by the evil Sidious, you're in the "exorcist", not starwars. Wrongo. If Palpatine is a clone of Sidious, it'll be more like "Dune" not "The Exorcist" -dooku explained that the dark side clouds the jedi's vision, and they cannot detect the Sith Lord who works under their nose. Why come up with that explanation if EpIII reveals that it was just a matter of clones ???? He does not say that they cannot detect him. He says that a Sith Lord is controlling the Senate. That's all he says. And if the clone thing is just an idea to avoid detection, why do the clone and the original live on the same planet, same city, and even same building ???? Why ??? They don't live in the same building. Same city, possibly, but Coruscant is a big planet. -Palpatine is intended to be a bad guy by Lucas. A bad guy who acts as a good guy to get what he wants. Yep, and he still can be since if he's Sidious' mirror image, he's doing Sidious' work as if he were Sidious. -Lucas said in the french magazine "studio" in 1999 that Palpatine was the one who would destroy the Republic and rule the Empire. Did you read post 1 and 2 of page 1 of this thread? Shure as hellfire doesn't sound like it. lol NO ONE IS SAYING PALPATINE IS NOT SIDIOUS. WHAT THE CLONERS ARE SAYING IS, SIDIOUS IS NOT CHANCELLOR PALPATINE.....YET. You may now remove your earplugs. -In another interview, he said it would be Sidious. hehehehe. If Palpatine is a clone of Sidious, when Sidious takes his place, he WILL BE THE EMPEROR. Yup, that's right. You heard it here first folks. -Lucas said in the TPM DVD audio documentary that Palpatine* would be involved with Anakin in EpII&III.* Yes, he will. He will. HE BLOODY WILL. And your point is? He also said in the latest Lucasfilm insider that since Sidious* managed to turn a jedi master (dooku), it established that he could turn another jedi, and that it is an important plot point.* Yes, it is an important plot point since we think Sidious is not Palpatine at this TIME, but will shortly become Palpatine, this means Sidious turns Anakin, and becomes the Emperor too. Amazing ain't it? In the french magazine "Mad Movies", in 1999, Lucas said that Palpatine turning Anakin was also a way to avenge Maul death : OB1 had killed his apprentice, and it is fitting that the Sith Master turns OB1's apprentice (very interesting interview btw) And once again, I point out no one is arguing that "Palpatine" will turn Anakin. What the cloners argue is, if Sidious takes Palpatine's place AND NAME, he will essentially be and do all the things that have been henceforth attributed to Palpatine, as the Emperor [for the viewers] and as Chancellor and Senator [for the characters in the movie] -Lucas wanted to have Palpatine and Anakin to interact in TPM and AOTC to foreshadow and set things up for what's to come in EpIII. So far, nothing in the clone theory would make this impossible. -Lucas also stated that Sidious is the Emperor (TPM DVD documentary, about sidous' holograms). Okay, that does it. Go back and read posts 1 and 2 of page 1.
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FOTR-AOTC-TTT_2002 Registered: Feb '02	Date Posted: 6/7/02 5:08pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread* - Date Edited: 6/7/02 5:09pm (1 edits total) Edited By: FOTR-AOTC-TTT_2002
	Lol @ Amra !!! Awesome ! I love the Yoda line. Good job !
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Maverick1115 Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 6/7/02 5:16pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	ODIOUS: I was a little shook up by the lightning. That damn phone line must have kicked in cause I sure as hell felt it. Anyway it threw me off track, but I am back and ready to resume. Although I do need to read over these new 7 pages so I don't upset UNDOM and repeat anyone's argument. Nice to be back.
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FOTR-AOTC-TTT_2002 Registered: Feb '02	Date Posted: 6/7/02 5:24pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread* - Date Edited: 6/7/02 5:26pm (1 edits total) Edited By: FOTR-AOTC-TTT_2002
	He, he, Undomiel, I can be cynical too -Lucas said that we'd understand the title "Attack of the Clones" better when we see Episode III : That's because the title refers to Sidious and Palpatines, the clones, attacking each other : Sidious starts a war on the CIS side with his apprentice Tyranus, while Palpatine counter-attacks with the Republic clone armies ... Attack ...of ... the ... Clones !!! It's working !! It's workiiinnng !!!!!! Nah, I'm not good at it. Now, now. Let's be serious. This clone theory is cheesy at best. Like I said in my last post, I can't prove anything. Until epIII is released, only Lucas himself could settle the matter. However, I know I'm right. Someday I'll be the most powerful fanboy ever. I promise you. I'll even prevent people from thinking that Palps and Sidious are clones ... A boy can always dream !
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PLO_KOON_DUDE Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 6/7/02 7:06pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	Yes its Da KOON_DUDE rejoining the argument. I didnt see this in the thread so far so ill bring it up. Some people may mention that that the EU has given a palpatine a full childhood..well kinda. It never states birth or anything. SO if anyoneuses that as an arguent ill just pointout that the clones of jango started out as infants to.....and nobody knows how old Sidious is (he could be 500 for all we know) so that way he would have enough time to make a clone and place him on naboo...you see he is obviously a great planner.. so he could predict his rising into power, the power naboo would recieve,and could know how hecould manipullate people...so incase anyone uses that argument... -----signature----- Luke-, I am your cousin's neice's sister-in-law's granma's brother who lives nextdoor to the waitress who surved you your hamburger last Monday! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mmmmmmmmmm Pistol Whip
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Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 6/7/02 7:11pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	Plo, Also, it does seem odd that Maul would say "At last we will get our revenge." As if they'd been waiting millenia to do so. Kinda weird.
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PLO_KOON_DUDE Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 6/7/02 7:28pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	Are you on the clone side UNdomiel? -----signature----- Luke-, I am your cousin's neice's sister-in-law's granma's brother who lives nextdoor to the waitress who surved you your hamburger last Monday! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mmmmmmmmmm Pistol Whip
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darth-sinister Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 6/7/02 7:30pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	Maul speaks for all Sith Lords and not just them. Where is this proof of them being two men? Start posting proof. -----signature----- Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge." Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side. Something, something, something complete."
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Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 6/7/02 7:32pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread* - Date Edited: 6/7/02 7:34pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Undomiel
	Plo, No, but I'm not on the non-clone side entirely. I'm just more non-clone than clone at this point because of the whole "Palpatine's balcony" scenario. See, according to the "Making of" DVD, Palpatine's balcony, seen from his office window, is the same balcony that was used for the scene with Sidious and Darth Maul. One must wonders then, whyfore are Sidious and Maul on Palpatine's balcony when Sidious has his own hideout, most likely with its own balcony, in the slums of Coruscant. Very odd indeed. This lead me to believe Sidious must be Palpatine and he had made an excursion with Maul to Palpatine's office in the Senate Building where they forthwith, proceeded to make their dark side plans in plain earshot of the entire senate and half the jedi council. Yep, they did this, risky as it may sound, even though they could've easily have done the same in Sidious hideout without worry of detection. I guess they were both feelin' their cheerios that day and decided Hey I know what we can do for fun!!! We'll go make our plans of domination on Palpatine's balcony!!! Err, yeah.
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RogueTrader Registered: Feb '02	Date Posted: 6/7/02 7:39pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	I'm just trying to figure out my limits in which to debate. According to the cloneheads, my arguments have to work within the confines of what's seen in the movies ONLY. Nothing else counts. Odius, I believe this is yours. I have to understand that Lucas can change his mind on even the largest of concepts in his films. NOTHING is concrete. Ever. LukeDuff says personal opinions and how other people feel has no place in the debate. With these limits I can't do much, therefore I'm not gonna follow them. Sorry everyone. And yes Odius. I know you think they are really the same. That's why I refer to you as the troublemaker. -----signature----- Have you asked Emos-Edud about his clone theory lately? Have you asked Darth Howell III about his ghost & spycam lately?
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PLO_KOON_DUDE Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 6/7/02 7:40pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	OK here are my thoughts on that.... Does it ever state that that is Palpatine's balcony in the SWU or just that it is the set. If Sidious isn't afraid of bringing his apprentice to "his" balcony then why does he have to meet dooku down in an old warhouse in the middle of nowhere. I dont thinkt that sidious is stupid enough to take Maul to "his" balcony if even only for a moment as maybe someone would come in and thewhole cover would be blone. I dunno...i just don't think Sidious, though he is able to cloud the jedi's vision, would take that risk. -----signature----- Luke-, I am your cousin's neice's sister-in-law's granma's brother who lives nextdoor to the waitress who surved you your hamburger last Monday! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mmmmmmmmmm Pistol Whip
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Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 6/7/02 7:44pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	Plo, Really? Well "Blow me to Bermuda!" (-Merlin, Sword in the Stone) That did seem a little weird to me as well. I was like, what in the sam hill is Maul doing with Sidious on Palpatine's balcony if Sidious isn't Palpatine. Then I said, well gee, it doesn't really make sense but if the non-cloners think it does, it must! Of course, this would also do away with the theory that Maul didn't know Sidious' other identity (that of the then Senator Palpatine). Oh so many questions, so little time.
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Darth_OlsenTwins Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 6/7/02 7:44pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	Plo Did anyone know that Maul was a Sith apprentice? No Did anyone know that Dooku was the leader of a Separatist movement that just started a war with the Republic? Yes. It would be quite conspicuous to have Dooku in the SC's office. Maybe he kept Maul in his apartment all the time, like the gimp in "Pulp Fiction" -----signature----- I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.
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