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Author	Topic: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
Sometimey Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 6/8/02 9:29pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	Thank you Rogue Trader. Undomiel, thank you for your response, but I do not have any questions related to this subject for George Lucas. My question about the height difference was mainly to show that it really supports neither side in this debate and is not evidence that Palpatine is a clone. That is what I seek.
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darth-sinister Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 6/8/02 9:36pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	I can answer the official site one. Before AOTC came out, it never said that Padme married Anakin. They were simply refered to as lovers. So for anyone venturing onto the official site, who isn't a hardcore fan, it serves as a red herring. Fooling people into thinking that they aren't the same. And it's true, all Stormtroopers and Clonetroopers are the same height as the Fetts. Thus, Palpatine should be the same height. And don't say that Sidious did that intentionally. Eye color is one thing, height is something else. -----signature----- Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge." Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side. Something, something, something complete."
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Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 6/8/02 9:37pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	Sometimey, That is what we all seek, or at least those of us who don't think we know it all already. I'm going to suggest that perhaps the best method to ascertain the answers, short of having GL's ear, is to weigh the pros and cons and make your own personal decision. I've fluctuated since I arrived from believing they are the same to the opposite, back to believing they are the same again. It's rough being blonde. Rogue, I, I don't know how! Do you have an art gallery online anywhere?
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RogueTrader Registered: Feb '02	Date Posted: 6/8/02 10:02pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	You should have another PM, Undomiel. -----signature----- Have you asked Emos-Edud about his clone theory lately? Have you asked Darth Howell III about his ghost & spycam lately?
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Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 6/8/02 10:05pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	Yay, I figured it out. lol Thanks.
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medleyoz Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 6/8/02 11:14pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	GL STATES on TPM DVD commentary that PALPETINE=SIDIOUS END DEBATE!!!! -----signature----- WARNING: your posting can harm others When the whole damn world is dead there's your ******* peace.
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Count_Draku Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 6/9/02 12:31am Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread* - Date Edited: 6/9/02 12:36am (3 edits total) Edited By: Count_Draku
	EDIT: Once again, I was tricked into posting twice. Ignore this entry and read the one below.
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Count_Draku Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 6/9/02 12:33am Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	I watched AOTC for the third time today, and picked up something that I haven't seen mentioned on this thread or on the original thread (although I could have missed it on that one). It doesn't prove either argument, but it was cool when I noticed it. It has to do with the emperor's theme. In TPM, the emperor's theme is played when Sidious is on screen. It links Sidious with the Emperor we know from ROTJ. For those that pay attention to music, it suggests they are the same guy. (Sure, it could just be misleading, but my understanding is that most pro-cloners believe that Sidious is the emperor from ROTJ, anyway, he just took Palpatine's name.) As has been mentioned before, at the end of TPM, the final celebration theme is just a variation of the emperor's theme, although I'm not exactly sure what the significance of that is -- it could mean a lot of things. Anyway, the first time I watched AOTC, I only heard the emperor's theme at the end, when Dooku goes to visit Sidious. The second time I watched it, I noticed it when Anakin was confessing to having slaughtered the Tuskens. It suggested to me that the emperor's theme was now more loosely associated with the dark side or something, it didn't really connect Sidious with the emperor after all. But, today, I heard the theme in a different spot. It was tough to pick out at first, though, because it was a slow subtle variation of it. In fact, I probably need to watch the movie again to make sure that I am right about this. But, I'm pretty sure that there is a variation of the emperor's theme during the one scene where any Palp = Sid proponent would expect it to be. It occurs when Palpatine is talking to Anakin and telling him he doesn't need guidance. I thought it was cool, because I'm a palp = sid fan. But, who knows, maybe I was just hearing what I wanted to hear. Also, I would like to say that after having seen the movie on digital, I don't accept the claim that Palp and Sidious have aged differently. Palp's makeup is mostly around the eyes, and to some extent on his cheekbones. There's nothing on his chin. If Palp wore a hood in the manner that Sid wears his, it would cover up the aged portions of his face.
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darth-sinister Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 6/9/02 9:04am Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	Aye and you would be correct. That's the beauty of it. Lucas is doing it to keep the mystery, but is winking at us hardcore fans. Now, when Lucas keeps interchanging the names of Sidious and Palpatine, he has to. He cannot give away his plot device early. So, throughout all interviews and commentaries, Lucas must interchange the names in order to achieve what he wants. It's the same way with doing a normal mystery with the bad guy's identity known only to those who work on the film. Trouble is that many of us figured it out right away. That is why the pro-cloners want that. They are so sure that Lucas is setting us up, but in reality he is setting up the casual audience. -----signature----- Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge." Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side. Something, something, something complete."
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RogueTrader Registered: Feb '02	Date Posted: 6/9/02 9:47am Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread* - Date Edited: 6/9/02 9:50am (1 edits total) Edited By: RogueTrader
	Darth Sinister, the last 3 lines in your post above is the most important statement that should be remembered by those who are debating. That's the point that needs to be driven into the clonhead's brains. -----signature----- Have you asked Emos-Edud about his clone theory lately? Have you asked Darth Howell III about his ghost & spycam lately?
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the_lord_of_the_sith Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 6/9/02 10:28am Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	Sidious is far more powerful than anyone from the Jedi council. He has the power to cloud their vision and prevent them from knowing the truth about him when he is moving around with everyone as Palpatine. The Jedi council is unable to detect the evil side when Palpatine is near them simply because he wishes it to be that way. Probably Sidious has discovered/mastered some powers [which no one in the Jedi council is aware off] which gives him chameleon/metamorphic abilities where by he can hide anything in his mind from anyone he wants to. If he wants he can show them his dark side when he wishes to. Bottomline:-Sidious and Palpatine are one and the same. They are not clones or twin brothers. -----signature----- MAY THE FORCE BE WITH EVERYONE!
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Maverick1115 Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 6/9/02 1:36pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread* - Date Edited: 6/9/02 1:37pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Maverick1115
	DRAKU: That was a very nice post. You did hear it right in that scene with Anakin. You do hear the Emperor's theme music when him and Palpatine are talking. I have been trying to bring up the Anakin and Palp scene time and time again, but everyone seems to ignore it. Yet, I never did bring up the fact that you hear the Emperor's theme music. Anyway, I personally think that is the biggest scene that shows Palp=Sid. Anakin is vital to him, this is his first move in turning the young Jedi.
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Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 6/9/02 1:47pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	Ahem, Rogue sir, would you please refrain from referring to our fellow debaters as "cloneheads"? It's so, so disrespectful!
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Sometimey Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 6/9/02 1:55pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	That is good information there, about the theme music. When I see AOTC next that is one thing I will be listening out for. I love little details like that. The scene between Anakin and Palpatine is very important to me, for a number of reasons. First of all, if Sidious and Palpatine are different people, when will Sidious begin to turn Anakin? All of the Star Wars movies thus far have covered no more than a couple of weeks at a time (probably less than that). Up to this point, Sidious has never even met Anakin. Will he have enough time in Episode 3 to befriend and turn Anakin? Secondly, why use the clone to accomplish one of your most important goals? Supposing Sidious can kill the clone and take his place as emperor, that doesn't mean he can take his place in Anakin's affections. Even if Anakin is never told about the deception (which would only make him mad), I find it incredibly hard to believe that he would never figure it out. Sidious hasn't done much in these films so far, but one thing he always seems to do is gain the loyalty of his apprentices and train them. So why wouldn't he do that with Anakin? Third, if Palpatine is an innocent, why is he planting these bad ideas in Anakin's head? And if Palpatine is not an innocent and knows his master's goal, I still don't know why Sidious would let Palpatine turn Anakin. That is too much power for a clone puppet to have.
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Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 6/9/02 2:00pm Subject: RE: *The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread*
	Sometimey, On your last point, Who was delegated to turn Luke ? Did Vader do it? What did the Emperor tell Vader? Remember?
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