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mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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1stAD
Registered:
May '01
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Date Posted:
6/24/02 1:24pm
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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How can one keep this discussion on target when the original assertion is so completely worthless?
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altx0022
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
6/24/02 1:32pm
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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Fallen, the shroud of the Dark Side has. Closed, this string must be.
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Oakessteve
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
May '99
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Date Posted:
6/24/02 1:35pm
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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I think there's one big thing which contradicts homeless_jedi's theory, which I'm not sure that anyone's brought up yet. If Mace Windu is a traitor, then why, in some of the novels, do we get inside his head? If George does have plans along the lines that homeless_jedi mentioned, he would have made Mace a no go area for the EU authors, like he has done with Jar Jar, Padme, and Yoda. But as he hasn't, and as he appears in quite a few of the EU novels, and is always doing things for the best interest of the Republic, I think that rules out your theory. I could be wrong here, but it seems silly for George to allow the authors to get into Mace Windu's head, when he's going to turn out to be a traitor.
Also, as with the thing about him defending Dooku, it's hinted in the film that once he and Dooku were friends, and like anybody would when somebody badmouths a friend, Mace Windu was defending him. He couldn't see somebody like Dooku, who before he left the Order was obviously a man who was greatly respected, doing anything so violent, and that's the way I read the scene. Then again, I could be wrong.
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Molly Oakes
1996-2003
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DARTH-JAD
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
6/24/02 1:43pm
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
- Date Edited:
6/24/02 1:50pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DARTH-JAD
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Reasons to believe that MASTER MACE WINDU is jedi traitor:
After I watched AOTC for the third time last week, I notized that there was something very strange in Samuel jackson´s performance. His character acted different than the last time on TPM. He looked very insecure, concerned, and sometimes suspicious.
Here is the list of facts that made me believe that MASTER WINDU is the Jedi traitor: (THESE ARE JUST MY OPINIONS, I ONLY WANT YOU GUYS TO SEE THE MOVIE WITH A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE, AND MAKE YOUR COMMENTS)
1. There is a JEDI TRAITOR in this new trilogy:
-Someone ordered the new clone army without consulting the jedi council and The kamino´s leader said they received the order from a jedi master.
-Someone erased KAMINO from the library archive. Only a jedi could have done that.
2. WINDU´s interest in knowing if anakin is really the chosen one:
-Just like in TPM master windu talks about the fact that anakin might be the chosen one. He told obi-wan to not worry about anakin´s attitude.
-He seems to like the idea of anakin being on his own, and not under obi-wan´s leadership. He´s the one who asked anakin to protect padme on her trip to naboo.
-He asked anakin to stay in Tatooine and not going to geonosis to rescue obi-wan.
3. WINDU´s supporting of the clone army:
-“we are keepers of the peace not soldiers”..he told palpatine. That can only mean that he knows that the war is about to begin and that the jedi cannot fight it alone.
-When obi-wan told yoda and windu about the existence of the clone army and after yoda said ..”blind we are if the construction of this army we could not see...” , Master windu suggested yoda to tell the senate that the jedi are no longer capable of protecting the republic.
-After palpatine aproved the creation of the army in the senate, Windu said to yoda “ WELL.....IT IS DONE” acting like he knew that it was going to happen soon or later
4. WINDU´s knowing about DOOKU´s plans
-When padme said that she believed that DOOKU was trying to kill her, windu defended him by saying that dooku was once a jedi.
-It was windu´s idea to send padme back to naboo, making it imposible for her to vote in the senate
-When he arrived at the arena, windu didn´t try to strike dooku down with his saber. He could have done it because dooku was not facing him at the time, but he chose to intimidate jango instead.
-Altought yoda told him that capturing dooku was important in order to stop other systems to join his crusade, Windu seemed more interested in talking control over the clone army than helping obi-wan and anakin to stop dooku
5. WINDU´s killing Jango Fett:
-Yoda asked obi-wan to capture jango in order to interrogate him. If jango got captured it could interfere with dooku´s plans because he knew too much. So jango had to be killed. Besides he was not useful to dooku anymore.
-Jango told obi-wan that he was hired by a man called TYRANUS (dooku). That could means that jango didn´t know that mace was helping dooku and explains why jango tried to kill him the arena.
-While the other jedis were fighting the droids, windu seemed more interested in killing Jango
-Right after killing jango windu had that “UPSS....I´M SORRY....I HAD NO OTHER CHOICE....” kind of look on his face
CONCLUSIONS: I have come up with this conclusion:
1. Master Mace Windu betrayed the jedi because he believed in the necessity of changing the structure of the jedi order to bring the balance to the force. He didn´t agree with the jedis not supporting the creation of the army because he wanted the clone army to be under the jedi orders to use them to stop the corruption of the politicians and protect the republic from the dark side, so he helped dooku order the army without the council approval..He wanted to create a new jedi order, one that will emerge as the leader group of the republic instead of the old senate, one that will use the army to control the separatist movements, one that will have anakin skywalker as its great leader and will see him become the greatest of all jedi just like the prophecy said. He used dooku´s help because windu believed in the ex jedi´s good intentions of stopting the sith lord and stopping the corruption in the senate. He didn´t know about dooku being Darth tyranus and Palpatine being a sith.
MASTER WINDU BETRAYED THE JEDIS BECAUSE HE WAS MANIPULATED BY DARTH SIDIOUS AND DARTH TYRANUS.....
WELL...THAT´S JUST MY OPINION....IT´S ONLY EXPECULATION AND I´M NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE ANYBODY ABOUT MACE BEING A TRAITOR....SO PLEASE NEXT TIME YOU SE AOTC PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT I SAID AND MAKE YOUR OWN OPINIONS ABOUT THIS TOPIC
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
6/24/02 1:47pm
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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You are correct. Sidious, Yoda, Padme and Jar Jar had little in additional info in the eu. Only what is known from the time period. Maul was done when Shadow Hunter was released.
Also, he was friends with Dooku and you are right to say that it's hard to believe that your friend is a bad guy. Until you see it.
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1stAD
Registered:
May '01
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Date Posted:
6/24/02 2:05pm
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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NO, YOU pay attention next time you watch because half the stuff you're making up never happened!
1. There is a JEDI TRAITOR in this new trilogy:
-Someone ordered the new clone army without consulting the jedi council and The kamino´s leader said they received the order from a jedi master.
-Someone erased KAMINO from the library archive. Only a jedi could have done that.
1)The Jedi traitor is so obviously Anakin Skywalker that it boggles my mind to think that ANYONE can think it's someone else!
2)Dooku was a Jedi Master, HE deleted Kamino from the archives, HE ordered the clone army and hired Jango Fett to be their template.
2. WINDU´s interest in knowing if anakin is really the chosen one:
-Just like in TPM master windu talks about the fact that anakin might be the chosen one. He told obi-wan to not worry about anakin´s attitude.
-He seems to like the idea of anakin being on his own, and not under obi-wan´s leadership. He´s the one who asked anakin to protect padme on her trip to naboo.
-He asked anakin to stay in Tatooine and not going to geonosis to rescue obi-wan.
1)Windu NEVER told Obi-Wan not to worry, he told Obi-Wan to have faith in Anakin. Two COMPLETELY different things.
2)YODA orders Anakin to protect Padme.
3)Mace wants Anakin to stay put so Padme's life WON'T be placed in danger.
3. WINDU´s supporting of the clone army:
-“we are keepers of the peace not soldiers”..he told palpatine. That can only mean that he knows that the war is about to begin and that the jedi cannot fight it alone.
EVERY JEDI is aware of this fact, the simple truth is that there are too few Jedi and too many Seperatists. How does this statement of fact lead you to believe that Windu supports the Clone army? LEARN TO FRIGGIN' READ AND LISTEN.
-When obi-wan told yoda and windu about the existence of the clone army and after yoda said ..”blind we are if the construction of this army we could not see...” , Master windu suggested yoda to tell the senate that the jedi are no longer capable of protecting the republic.
The Jedi AREN'T capable of protecting the Republic in a time of war. How does this make him a traitor?
-After palpatine aproved the creation of the army in the senate, Windu said to yoda “ WELL.....IT IS DONE” acting like he knew that it was going to happen soon or later
LEARN TO READ AND LISTEN PLEASE, you are putting meaning into words when they do not exist.
4. WINDU´s knowing about DOOKU´s plans
-When padme said that she believed that DOOKU was trying to kill her, windu defended him by saying that dooku was once a jedi.
Ki-Adi-Mundi defended him as well. This is not evidence of betrayal, it is evidence that the Jedi still revere Count Dooku.
-It was windu´s idea to send padme back to naboo, making it imposible for her to vote in the senate
It was YODA's idea.
-When he arrived at the arena, windu didn´t try to strike dooku down with his saber. He could have done it because dooku was not facing him at the time, but he chose to intimidate jango instead.
Jango is clearly armed to the teeth and a much more immediate threat than Dooku.
-Altought yoda told him that capturing dooku was important in order to stop other systems to join his crusade, Windu seemed more interested in talking control over the clone army than helping obi-wan and anakin to stop dooku
WATCH THE MOVIE. God, you know why they landed? Heavy anti-aircraft fire torched the gunship right next to Mace's. He had two choices, either land or be destroyed. And in case you've got some kind of attention deficit disorder, it is YODA who is wasting time ordering the clones around.
5. WINDU´s killing Jango Fett:
-Yoda asked obi-wan to capture jango in order to interrogate him. If jango got captured it could interfere with dooku´s plans because he knew too much. So jango had to be killed. Besides he was not useful to dooku anymore.
Sigh...when someone is trying to kill you, you can't be bothered with capturing them! Jango already tried to fry Mace once, now he's shooting at him.
-Jango told obi-wan that he was hired by a man called TYRANUS (dooku). That could means that jango didn´t know that mace was helping dooku and explains why jango tried to kill him the arena.
Or maybe MACE WASN'T HELPING DOOKU AND YOU'VE FABRICATED ALL THIS NONSENSE.
-While the other jedis were fighting the droids, windu seemed more interested in killing Jango
JANGO IS SPECIFICALLY TARGETING MACE WINDU THE ENTIRE TIME, WHY CAN'T YOU JUST PAY ATTENTION TO THE DAMN MOVIE!?
-Right after killing jango windu had that “UPSS....I´M SORRY....I HAD NO OTHER CHOICE....” kind of look on his face
There is NO reaction shot of Mace after he kills Jango, what the HELL were you watching? After Mace decapitates Jango, there is a shot of BOBA FETT's reaction.
PAY ATTENTION TO THE FRIGGIN' MOVIE next time you watch.
And I'm spent. 
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homeless_jedi
Registered:
Feb '02
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Date Posted:
6/26/02 3:17am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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1stad. do you have any proof? that what you are saying is true?
proof that dooku or anakin erased the files?
proof that mace wasn't helping dooku?
proof that dooku ordered the clone army?
no. yo do not.
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Oakessteve
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
May '99
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Date Posted:
6/26/02 3:37am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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How about my point, homeless_jedi? Do you mind coming up with an answer for that?
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Molly Oakes
1996-2003
"Lots of planets have a north."
Dark Lord of the JCC
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Antilles01
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
6/26/02 3:49am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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homeless_jedi, do you get some sort of weird pleasure out of making everyone think you're an idiot? Does complete idiocy come naturally? Are you a smart person in disguise, just here to make people angry as you watch and laugh? I bet that's it, really, honestly. I want to try it too!
DEFINITIVE PROOF THAT MACE IS ANAKINS FATHER
1. Mace never mentions Shmi Skywalker. Coincidence?
2. Mace always sits in the same chair. Strange? Yes! What is he hiding?
3. Mace tells Qui-Gon that Anakin will not be trained in TPM. Who else but his father would say that?
4. Mace sits cross legged in his room that he shares with Yoda. This is clearly an indicator that he is the father of Anakin.
5. Yoda tells the audience at the end of AOTC 'Begun this Clone War has, and Mace is the father of Anakin!' That's definitive proof right there, ive watched the movie 247 times and he says it every time.
6. When Mace comes into the arena, he yells down to Anakin, 'Hey son!'. This is only in the digital version. In the film version, he says 'How's it going, son?!'
7. In AOTC Yoda is meditating and he hears Mace yell out, 'I am the father of Anakin.' Then Mace walks in the room. Coincidence?
There you go, sorry if this has been discussed in another thread.
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Antilles01
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
6/26/02 3:55am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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Oh oh oh, plus Mace has the purple saber. Its well known that only Anakins father has a purple saber.
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homeless_jedi
Registered:
Feb '02
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Date Posted:
6/26/02 3:59am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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hi oaksteve. well you do bring up a good point. but most of the eu literature out there does not completely focus on mace windu. in the comics he just serves as a behind the scenes character. i know he doesnt have his own comic. and to be honest, i dont think he deserves one. and you know how eu is sometimes taken in some directions that george would never agree with. lucas is a very smart man. he thinks like we do. and he plans to do this secretly. you dont suppose he would let this just be published. but he does give you clues in the film. you just have to pick em up.
mace windu, dooku and qui gon were on this plan together. they planned to bring down the jedi. mace is just holding on a lil longer until he best refuses to continue to be a jedi. you can clearly see in episode 2 that he wants to quit. as he tells yoda that the jedi have lost the use of the force. what he is saying is that its over. that is why yoda looked at his weaknesses and his dark side. it came trough.
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Nephrite
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
6/26/02 4:00am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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Antilles01 LOL 
but I think the purple saber means he's a Lakers fan.
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Antilles01
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
6/26/02 4:02am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
- Date Edited:
6/26/02 4:05am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Antilles01
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oh, and DARTH-JAD? a sock? come on homeless. Thats sad 
and yes, Nephrite.
Laker fan=Anakins father.
There's absolute proof. Case closed.
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homeless_jedi
Registered:
Feb '02
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Date Posted:
6/26/02 4:06am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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antilles. i must admit you made me laugh very loud.
antilles. that was not me. but i can tell he is pretty smart.
one thing i dont understand? why is everyone attacking me? hey im the one who revelaled this before anyone else..should'nt i be congratulated?
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Antilles01
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
6/26/02 4:29am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
- Date Edited:
6/26/02 4:33am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Antilles01
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right moron, i just find it strange that he registered after this thread had started, he has five posts to his name (all Mace Windu traitor topics) and his arguements are structured and written just like yours. But oh well.
'but i can tell he is pretty smart'
L O L That's pretty funny. See, now you made me laugh! 
And people are attacking you because we generally don't like blatantly stupid people. I know I can't STAND them.
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