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Topic:
mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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homeless_jedi
Registered:
Feb '02
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Date Posted:
8/11/02 11:48pm
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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actually i did notice that. glad you bring up a good point. like i said, he's a traitor...but of course this will be debated like all things are around here.
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AnotherAgentSmith
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
8/12/02 12:26am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
- Date Edited:
8/12/02 12:27am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
AnotherAgentSmith
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While your arguments to state that Jedi Master Mace Windu is a traitor are interesting, there's one question I'd like to ask out of interest and for debate.
Why? What's Mace Windu's motivation to betray the Jedi and serve the Sith?
(Obviously he's not a Sith himself since there can only be 2, and we have Darth Sidious and Darth Tyranus.)
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Atticus
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
8/12/02 12:27am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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I guess none of us will know for sure until Ep3 in 2005. However The_Homeless_Jedi does make some good points. And I was just thinking, I heard a rumor that Anakin is the one that kills Mace. So IF Mace is a traitor, maybe Palpatine makes them fight eachother to see who will be his new right hand man, kinda of like the LukeVader fight in ROTJ. 
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homeless_jedi
Registered:
Feb '02
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Date Posted:
8/12/02 12:46am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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WELL ANOTHERAGENT ..its clear hes working with count dooku and the separatists, he defended dooku verbally at the beggining and didnt kill him when he had the chance. i think he may be looking for a way out of the jedi. he seems to have lost faith in the jedi order. he does seem to be connected to the sith in a way( lightsaber and style of fighting) but no. he is not sidious apprentice, thats dooku.
i dont have all the asnwers, but it is clear he does not have faith in the jedi anymore. what bothers me is how he instructed the jedi to jump into the arena, into a trap. he knew they had no chance. he must have been the one to ordered the creation of the clone army, knowing the outcome. we will see mace fight yoda in episode 3.
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AnotherAgentSmith
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
8/12/02 2:45am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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You could be right.
But I don't really see any indications as to why Mace Windu would have lost his faith in the Jedi. (And at the start Ki-Adi Mundi is much more defensive of Dooku than Mace is, this just meant to show the arrogance and complacency of the Jedi order.)
His different color of lightsaber is just due to Sam L Jacksons request to have purple. His fighting style is Form VII lightsaber combat, which is by no means a Sith or 'bad' lightsaber combat style.
Mace Windu took some 200 Jedi with him to Geonosis and expected a battle, one with a few hundred Geonisians, not with thousands of battledroids.
As is clear form dialogue that was cut from the movie -which regrettable decision sparked much of the 'mace is a traitor' thoughts with people-.
Count Dooku: 'Brave but foolish. You're impossibly outnumbered.'
Mace Windu: 'I don't think so. One Jedi has to be worth a hundred Geonosians.'
Count Dooku: 'Is one Jedi worth a thousand battledroids?'
*Battledroids march in.*
Also it's sad they cut the raid on the Droid Control Ship which would have showed that Mace at least did plan for some contingencies.
And why would Mace hold his lightsaber at Jango isntead of Dooku? Well seeing Mace knows Dooku is a powerful Jedi -was at least- his chances of success and avoiding risk it's better to target Jango. Also they know Jango Fett is involved and has tried to kill Amidala. Of Dooku' sinvolvlment they're still unsure. Dooku migth still be a rogue politician who wants to have an army just as show to get his way and not use it. Unrealistic that last part, but seeing how difficult it is for the Jedi to accept that one who was once of their own has so turned to the Dark Side not unlikely.
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Darth_Fromupnorth
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
8/12/02 3:50am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
- Date Edited:
8/12/02 3:50am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Darth_Fromupnorth
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Edit: Nevermind...
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Darth_Bendover
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
8/12/02 3:56am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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I think the existence of this thread proves something or wider import.
Society is inherently racist and therefore cannot abide by the fact in this movie, one of the men at the top of a just organisation is black.
Old stereotypes and prejudices are at work here my friends, assuming on whatever level (concious or otherwise) that black = dark side.
Just because Lando was a traitor, doesn't mean all brothers are!!
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wookie_fett
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
8/12/02 4:48am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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Darth_Bendover - you really should aquire a new name before spewing forth on social commentary....
It is absolutely possible that Windu is a traitor - and it would be a shock on par with "I am your father..." to the general audience. It's silly to count it out...
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Darth_Bendover
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
8/12/02 6:48am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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Wookie Fett. I really feel that the name I have chosen is in no way connected to any opinion I might hold. Furthermore these reflections may vary from the satirical to humorous, and still seem to merit response from fans in here; including the likes of you.
At no point in my argument did I rule out that Windu COULD be a traitor, and in fact I only implied that I thought this not to be the case with an argument based on the potential prejudices of society which have 'spewed' as you would say, nearly 13 pages on the topic that the black man is a traitor.
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SHAD0W-JEDI
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
8/12/02 7:09am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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*SIGH*
Ironically, I recall, right after seeing AOTC, discussing with some friends how one of the benefits of having the SW saga set long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away was that it enabled the SW movies to make race a virtual irrelevancy IN THE FILMS THEMSELVES. That is, the characters are who they are, without the racial baggage that would be almost unavoidable in most other films. The characters are not racially self-conscious - Mace is black, yes, but the movies don't CARE... he isn't there BECAUSE his black, nor is his race an issue in the film, any more than is Anakin being white, or Typho being (I think!) a "South Pacific Islander". There is no discussion of race, of racial tensions, etc, because none of the characters are from Earth - it is an irrelevancy, a non sequitir. The characters are not "required" to swap racial banter, or to work out racial issues, or to be taken as reflective of modern mores, etc...
Of course, that does not prevent race from entering the DISCUSSION of SW, as is it did during TPM (Jar Jar, and so forth) - and the ludicrous flap over whether Jango/Kamino were veiled swipes at Hispanics....
Darth Bendover, your comment points out how film-makers can't win. Faill to cast a certain number of "minority" actors and you get hammered; cast them in any of the more interesting roles and you get hammered for alleged racist intent.
There is speculation re Mace mainly because of "economy of characters" - usually, when there is a mystery as to who did something significant, the solution to the mystery is someone who has meaningful screen time. In a murder mystery, you don't USUALLY have a conclusion where the detective says "After investigation, I have concluded that none of you in this room committed the murder - rather, it was the janitor, who hasn't actually been on screen at all in the last two hours". Obviously, that kind of thing isn't very satisfying for the audience. SO... if there IS a Jedi "traitor", it seems logical for speculation to center around the Jedi we have come to know, and not "Anonymous Jedi #17" who was only on screen in the back of one arena shot. Now, maybe Jedi #17 WILL be played up in Ep. 3, so it IS possible...but Mace comes under scrutiny (as has Qui-Gonn, I might add, along with the more obvous Dooku!) simply because, aside from Yoda and Obi-Wan (who seem exonerated by their portrayals in the ANH trilogy!) he is one of the more prominent, fleshed-out, and important Jedi.
If race motivates the speculation re Mace, is the speculation re Qui-Gonn evidence of an anti-white bias? For that matter...aren't ALL the villains in the SW universe pretty much white males, with few exceptions? Hmmm... and look at that nasty Palpatine!
There is plenty of OVERT racism to deal with in the world. Can't we stop trying to FIND lurking racism around every corner?
Shadow
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Darth_Bendover
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
8/12/02 7:30am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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You white Shadow? Rest my case.
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Slaphe
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
8/12/02 7:36am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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Mace is the coolest guy in the whole movie besides Yoda and Jango.But if you wanted proof you're looking in the rong movie.Heck does palpy ever mention to luke that mace did it if you are going to accuse anyone then accuse Anikin. Anikin is the man he isent in the second movie yet but when ob-1 relized he was the trator he tried to despose of him and failed. Its bs that he would BEACAUSE he is around yoda. Yoda is to strong with the force for mace to be liying all the time YODA WOULD NOTICE.
When mace killed jango he looked up at where the trade who'sits with hate in his eyes.
But i wish i had seen the movie 10 times. give mace a break.
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Darth Geist
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
8/12/02 7:52am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
- Date Edited:
8/12/02 7:56am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Darth Geist
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"You white Shadow? Rest my case."
Jeez, no racism there.
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annie_skywalker001
Registered:
Feb '02
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Date Posted:
8/12/02 8:32am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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So, is Mace a bad guy or not?
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AnotherAgentSmith
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
8/12/02 9:04am
Subject:
RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
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The best reply to that is 'maybe'.
We'll see when we watch Episode III in 2005 won't we?
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'These are my duties, I am a Jedi.' Aayla Secura
Please sign this petition to see Aayla Secura in Episode III: http://www.petitionpetition.com/cgi/petition.cgi?id=4964&action=read
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