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Author Topic: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
Vader-Hater 
Registered: Nov '02
6187_Yoda
Date Posted: 11/19/02 4:47am Subject: RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
I think that Mace's being a traitor is a definite possibility. I had thought about it before, but I left that theory for a while I guess because so many fans are against it.

One point: if you're going to believe that Mace IS a traitor, then you should probably also just accept that Palpatine IS Sidious. Why? Because such a huge part of the argument of their being two different people is the assumption that all those top Jedi would certainly sense a Sith Lord in their presence, especially after spending so much time with him. So if Mace is such a bad guy, and Yoda can't still clearly see it, then it's also most reasonable to say that they wouldn't be able to sense that Palpatine is Sidious either.

Hey, I don't know if anyone would like to see either Mace being a traitor or Palpatine not being Sidious more than me. But these are just things to consider, that's all.

That was a good point I read a few minutes ago that I hadn't thought about. It's Dooku's whole thing about Windu being "worthy of recognition in the ARCHIVES of the Jedi Order." Could that really be just a simple coincidence from lame script-writing?

I just don't know! I'M SO CONFUSED!

 

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My dream Ep. III surprises:
Palpatine is not Sidious
Anakin has a father
There can be more than 2 sith
Mace is one of them
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doublejointed  125 posts
Registered: Feb '02
6383_Bariss (71809)
Date Posted: 11/19/02 10:59am Subject: RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
I feel that Yoda does seem to look at Mace with looks of concern or doubt, but there is still absolutely no proof to back the theory outside of speculation

speculation

speculation

speculation

 

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Adam and Eve were sitting in the garden, and Adam said to Eve, "look we are one with God, One with Nature, We will never die, we will never age, and all our dreams come true the instant we think of them, and Eve said, "Yup, its just not enough is it"
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hippie1kenobi  344 posts
Registered: Apr '02
6230_R2-D2
Date Posted: 11/19/02 12:05pm Subject: RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
One question I have with the Mace=traitor question is, Why?

Wouldn't the story be more poignant and interesting if the Jedi (and by extension the Republic) fall due to their arrogance and failure in properly training Anakin? Having somebody turn out to be a traitor just seems a little deus ex machina to me. There is really no reason for it other than for the sake of putting a twist in the movi.

I guess if someone can explain why a traitor is necassary or useful to the plot (or at least interesting) I might buy into it.

At least the Sid =/= Palp crowd lists some reasons why they feel it is a required twist to answer some questions.

 

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Darth Geist  5919 posts
Registered: Oct '99
6270_Darth Vader
Date Posted: 11/19/02 8:18pm Subject: RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
"This is conclusive proof."

I'll get back to you when I stop laughing.

 

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When George Lucas was in his early twenties, he was wrecking his health in the
burning Tunisian desert, risking a new and fragile career on a movie no one believed in.
When I was in my early twenties, I was complaining on the Internet about George Lucas.
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CarbonKnight  2608 posts
Registered: Apr '02
6281_Hayden Christensen
Date Posted: 11/19/02 8:29pm Subject: RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
I actually like this idea of Mace being the traitor. It makes alot of sense in many ways.

Lucas and Jackson claim that the purple lightsaber was given because Jackson liked the color. Well, what if it's the color blue merging into red? RED + BLUE = Purple

Plus, this twist would make Episode 3 really cool.

Unlikely of course, but really cool.

Mace = Spiked Weapon
Mace is also Bald like Maul and Vader, and the Emperor

Plus, if he's so good why isn't he a ghost in Episode 6, huh?? Case closed.


 

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Dooku: "Surely you can do better!"
Obi-Wan: "I can do better, and don't call me Shirley!"
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ksid  1136 posts
Registered: Nov '02
6148_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 11/19/02 8:52pm Subject: RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
doublej Go check out AOTC again.

Hippie This is not the forum to discuss Ep III speculation.



"Nothing will be as it seems in this trilogy - paraphrasing Lucas"

 

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varza  3480 posts
Title: Former Albuquerque FF CR
 Registered: Nov '02
41174_Sith Happens
Date Posted: 11/19/02 9:48pm Subject: RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
um carbon... if mace showed up in 6 would all the jedi show up in 6? the only ones that showed were ones who were connected in some way directly with Luke-his father, his first teacher and his 2nd teacher. If this other guy showed luke would probably wonder who the heck he was.

Mace isn't a traitor-if anything I think he concerned about the council. He isn't the one that ordered the clone army to be taken to the planet and gave approval for Mace to take the remaining jedi. um, he was the one who mentioned to Yoda about speaking to the council about stepping down because they seemed to be loosing their mental abilities-or something along that lines-and Yoda said no.

hey wait a second-Yoda is the traitor. He didn't kill dooku when he had the chance. he ordered the army to be put into service... oh my... wink

 

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Just because your paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face - Harry, Dresden Files
-I would be more active but I found WOW and can't find my way back...
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homeless_jedi  3645 posts
Registered: Feb '02
6598_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 12/31/02 5:01am Subject: RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
I had to bring this up..because people are seeing the film..more and more ..now that it is on dvd....and yet my theory still holds water....i admit..my first post was ..very crude? limited? yes..but if you see some of my other ones thy actually makes..sense...this is not a race issue..im not saying mace is a traitor because he is black..no..but some of you had to bring that up before..along the line..of reason...but reading the recent..traitor threads..and how people are finally realizing this..it actually almost..makes this theory..true..how can so many people be so wrong? they cant..i saw the films..many times in the movies like i said before..and i noticed it right away..hey i could be wrong..somewhere along the line..but my isntics never failed..
this is why im back..and back to stay!

 

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Jake_Barnes  4576 posts
Registered: Jun '02
6325_Rebel Deck Officer
Date Posted: 12/31/02 6:33am Subject: RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
I have never read anything in this thread that would pass even an all-encompassing definition of the word "proof." It makes me wish we could "un-up" threads.

 
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mi6agent56 
Registered: Mar '02
Date Posted: 12/31/02 2:46pm Subject: RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
For Lucas to make Mace a traitor would kinda damper Sam Jackson's desire of "dying honorably" in Episode III. By turning traitor, he would deprive the fans of their like for the character, as they would probably be mad at his treachery, and then, when he is to be killed, I mean the death is meaningless, or pretty dishonorable. Of course, he could see the error of his ways, turn, and then die honorably, but I think once you betray someone/something, it's hard to repent. Also, if the acting of Sam Jackson is indicitive of him being a traitor, just think BLUE.

 

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Just when you think you’ve thrawted evil(EpI),
evil makes a return(Ep2) and appears to
have won but a hero figure arises(EpIV), who
takes a fall(EpV), recovers and discovers the true hero,
who proves good will always triumph over evil(EpVI).
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homeless_jedi  3645 posts
Registered: Feb '02
6598_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 12/31/02 11:42pm Subject: RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
george lucas once said that "the jedi crumble from within"

that has to mean that someone in the jedi a very powerful jedi..that no one can suspect to be a traitor...is..

sure we all know anakin and dooku is a traitor..to know that..it dont take a genius. its obivious..but in my experience..on facial expressions and movement..im sure..a 100% that mace is a traitor..everytime i watch the film..im convinced. somehow i get the feeling he was working with dooku..but dooku betrayed him..hence the line...." a mention in the jedi archives" or something like that..dooku knows that he cant reveal mace's true identity because mace will kill him..so he is scared of letting anyone else know...

also. sam jackson always wanted to fight with yoda. and i think he will get his wish in ep3.when yoda realizes that mace is working with a sith..to bring down the jedi..because of lack of faith.. " we should inform the senate of our dimished ability to use the force" somewhat in that line..

and then yoda says" only a sith would know of that"

that makes ..windu the sith..and notice how yoda looks at him..when he says that to him.in the chair..he wonders about mace..

i believe that is why mace was created..just to serve as the traitor..there are two..leaders in the jedi council..yoda and mace.who do you think will betray who?

others things i have mentioned..mace's lightsaber is purple..and it looks like a sith's saber..almost like maul's..

mace knew that dooku had a great army..and he took all the jedi there on a suicide mission..it was a trap. for the rest of the jedi..but dooku and mace made it look so real..like they were actually at war with eachother..but notice how he doesnt kill him? and when mace kills jango..dooku is way..way surprised..like saying "hey your on my side you idiot"

one more thing. in the begginning of the film..mace stands up for dooku..refuses to make him look bad and defends him all the time..
and when obi wan finds that the bounty hunter is the clone..and reports to yoda..notice how mace all the sudden walks in and interrupts "no, no one ordered the creation of those clones" ..it is almost like he is scared of talking about it..and changes the subject..immediately..

his fighting style is that of a sith..

well..i dont think..this could be fact..or proof..and i said before..im not saying that this proof..is a 100% fact..it depends on who you are and what you believe.

 

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homeless_jedi  3645 posts
Registered: Feb '02
6598_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 12/31/02 11:44pm Subject: RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
george lucas once said that "the jedi crumble from within"

that has to mean that someone in the jedi a very powerful jedi..that no one can suspect to be a traitor...is..

sure we all know anakin and dooku is a traitor..to know that..it dont take a genius. its obivious..but in my experience..on facial expressions and movement..im sure..a 100% that mace is a traitor..everytime i watch the film..im convinced. somehow i get the feeling he was working with dooku..but dooku betrayed him..hence the line...." a mention in the jedi archives" or something like that..dooku knows that he cant reveal mace's true identity because mace will kill him..so he is scared of letting anyone else know...

also. sam jackson always wanted to fight with yoda. and i think he will get his wish in ep3.when yoda realizes that mace is working with a sith..to bring down the jedi..because of lack of faith.. " we should inform the senate of our dimished ability to use the force" somewhat in that line..

and then yoda says" only a sith would know of that"

that makes ..windu the sith..and notice how yoda looks at him..when he says that to him.in the chair..he wonders about mace..

i believe that is why mace was created..just to serve as the traitor..there are two..leaders in the jedi council..yoda and mace.who do you think will betray who?

others things i have mentioned..mace's lightsaber is purple..and it looks like a sith's saber..almost like maul's..

mace knew that dooku had a great army..and he took all the jedi there on a suicide mission..it was a trap. for the rest of the jedi..but dooku and mace made it look so real..like they were actually at war with eachother..but notice how he doesnt kill him? and when mace kills jango..dooku is way..way surprised..like saying "hey your on my side you idiot"

one more thing. in the begginning of the film..mace stands up for dooku..refuses to make him look bad and defends him all the time..
and when obi wan finds that the bounty hunter is the clone..and reports to yoda..notice how mace all the sudden walks in and interrupts "no, no one ordered the creation of those clones" ..it is almost like he is scared of talking about it..and changes the subject..immediately..

his fighting style is that of a sith..

well..i dont think..this could be fact..or proof..and i said before..im not saying that this proof..is a 100% fact..it depends on who you are and what you believe.

 

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homeless_jedi  3645 posts
Registered: Feb '02
6598_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 12/31/02 11:45pm Subject: RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
george lucas once said that "the jedi crumble from within"

that has to mean that someone in the jedi a very powerful jedi..that no one can suspect to be a traitor...is..

sure we all know anakin and dooku is a traitor..to know that..it dont take a genius. its obivious..but in my experience..on facial expressions and movement..im sure..a 100% that mace is a traitor..everytime i watch the film..im convinced. somehow i get the feeling he was working with dooku..but dooku betrayed him..hence the line...." a mention in the jedi archives" or something like that..dooku knows that he cant reveal mace's true identity because mace will kill him..so he is scared of letting anyone else know...

also. sam jackson always wanted to fight with yoda. and i think he will get his wish in ep3.when yoda realizes that mace is working with a sith..to bring down the jedi..because of lack of faith.. " we should inform the senate of our dimished ability to use the force" somewhat in that line..

and then yoda says" only a sith would know of that"

that makes ..windu the sith..and notice how yoda looks at him..when he says that to him.in the chair..he wonders about mace..

i believe that is why mace was created..just to serve as the traitor..there are two..leaders in the jedi council..yoda and mace.who do you think will betray who?

others things i have mentioned..mace's lightsaber is purple..and it looks like a sith's saber..almost like maul's..

mace knew that dooku had a great army..and he took all the jedi there on a suicide mission..it was a trap. for the rest of the jedi..but dooku and mace made it look so real..like they were actually at war with eachother..but notice how he doesnt kill him? and when mace kills jango..dooku is way..way surprised..like saying "hey your on my side you idiot"

one more thing. in the begginning of the film..mace stands up for dooku..refuses to make him look bad and defends him all the time..
and when obi wan finds that the bounty hunter is the clone..and reports to yoda..notice how mace all the sudden walks in and interrupts "no, no one ordered the creation of those clones" ..it is almost like he is scared of talking about it..and changes the subject..immediately..

his fighting style is that of a sith..

well..i dont think..this could be fact..or proof..and i said before..im not saying that this proof..is a 100% fact..it depends on who you are and what you believe.

 

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homeless_jedi  3645 posts
Registered: Feb '02
6598_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 12/31/02 11:47pm Subject: RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
george lucas once said that "the jedi crumble from within"

that has to mean that someone in the jedi a very powerful jedi..that no one can suspect to be a traitor...is..

sure we all know anakin and dooku is a traitor..to know that..it dont take a genius. its obivious..but in my experience..on facial expressions and movement..im sure..a 100% that mace is a traitor..everytime i watch the film..im convinced. somehow i get the feeling he was working with dooku..but dooku betrayed him..hence the line...." a mention in the jedi archives" or something like that..dooku knows that he cant reveal mace's true identity because mace will kill him..so he is scared of letting anyone else know...

also. sam jackson always wanted to fight with yoda. and i think he will get his wish in ep3.when yoda realizes that mace is working with a sith..to bring down the jedi..because of lack of faith.. " we should inform the senate of our dimished ability to use the force" somewhat in that line..

and then yoda says" only a sith would know of that"

that makes ..windu the sith..and notice how yoda looks at him..when he says that to him.in the chair..he wonders about mace..

i believe that is why mace was created..just to serve as the traitor..there are two..leaders in the jedi council..yoda and mace.who do you think will betray who?

others things i have mentioned..mace's lightsaber is purple..and it looks like a sith's saber..almost like maul's..

mace knew that dooku had a great army..and he took all the jedi there on a suicide mission..it was a trap. for the rest of the jedi..but dooku and mace made it look so real..like they were actually at war with eachother..but notice how he doesnt kill him? and when mace kills jango..dooku is way..way surprised..like saying "hey your on my side you idiot"

one more thing. in the begginning of the film..mace stands up for dooku..refuses to make him look bad and defends him all the time..
and when obi wan finds that the bounty hunter is the clone..and reports to yoda..notice how mace all the sudden walks in and interrupts "no, no one ordered the creation of those clones" ..it is almost like he is scared of talking about it..and changes the subject..immediately..

his fighting style is that of a sith..

well..i dont think..this could be fact..or proof..and i said before..im not saying that this proof..is a 100% fact..it depends on who you are and what you believe.

 

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homeless_jedi  3645 posts
Registered: Feb '02
6598_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 12/31/02 11:49pm Subject: RE: mace windu is the jedi traitor. proof here!
george lucas once said that "the jedi crumble from within"

that has to mean that someone in the jedi a very powerful jedi..that no one can suspect to be a traitor...is..

sure we all know anakin and dooku is a traitor..to know that..it dont take a genius. its obivious..but in my experience..on facial expressions and movement..im sure..a 100% that mace is a traitor..everytime i watch the film..im convinced. somehow i get the feeling he was working with dooku..but dooku betrayed him..hence the line...." a mention in the jedi archives" or something like that..dooku knows that he cant reveal mace's true identity because mace will kill him..so he is scared of letting anyone else know...

also. sam jackson always wanted to fight with yoda. and i think he will get his wish in ep3.when yoda realizes that mace is working with a sith..to bring down the jedi..because of lack of faith.. " we should inform the senate of our dimished ability to use the force" somewhat in that line..

and then yoda says" only a sith would know of that"

that makes ..windu the sith..and notice how yoda looks at him..when he says that to him.in the chair..he wonders about mace..

i believe that is why mace was created..just to serve as the traitor..there are two..leaders in the jedi council..yoda and mace.who do you think will betray who?

others things i have mentioned..mace's lightsaber is purple..and it looks like a sith's saber..almost like maul's..

mace knew that dooku had a great army..and he took all the jedi there on a suicide mission..it was a trap. for the rest of the jedi..but dooku and mace made it look so real..like they were actually at war with eachother..but notice how he doesnt kill him? and when mace kills jango..dooku is way..way surprised..like saying "hey your on my side you idiot"

one more thing. in the begginning of the film..mace stands up for dooku..refuses to make him look bad and defends him all the time..
and when obi wan finds that the bounty hunter is the clone..and reports to yoda..notice how mace all the sudden walks in and interrupts "no, no one ordered the creation of those clones" ..it is almost like he is scared of talking about it..and changes the subject..immediately..

his fighting style is that of a sith..

well..i dont think..this could be fact..or proof..and i said before..im not saying that this proof..is a 100% fact..it depends on who you are and what you believe.

 

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