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Author	Topic: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
RevengeofDahveed Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 12/27/02 6:09pm Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	I simply refuse to believe that Lucas actually credited old 30's serials for the acting/dialogue style of his PT. I dont believe its true, and if it were i dont believe he would actually admit it publicly.
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RevengeofDahveed Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 12/27/02 6:10pm Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason............... - Date Edited: 12/27/02 6:12pm (1 edits total) Edited By: RevengeofDahveed
	oh wait he was talking in general, not the dialogue/acting specifically. thats actually quite plausible and quite unfortunate. ill probably never hear the commentary, could someone accuarately quote what he said regarding the influence of serials?
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ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Title: Moderator Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 12/27/02 6:21pm Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason............... - Date Edited: 12/27/02 6:22pm (1 edits total) Edited By: ST-TPM-ASF-TNE
	Here, RevengeofDahveed, read this. This is taken from another thread, and I only got the ones that relate to this topic: (1) "I wrote the rough backstory 30 years ago. It was designed to be a Saturday afternoon cliffhanger. I started [production] in the middle, because I don't like to start in the beginning." (On wooden acting criticism) "The acting is a throwback to the 1930s because of the digital process. The actor is often acting to a blue or green screen, just as in the 1930s actors acted in the artificial environment of stages. In the 1950s, realistic method acting became popular. This is a different form of acting, not better or worse. Americans don't know how to do this type of acting, but the British still do." (on shooting digitally) "Film has become too expensive. Film has to be transferred to digital to edit, so just eliminate the middle step. Also, digital allows you to do more, it gets rid of the gatekeeper inherent in the high cost of film. Digital opens the way for low budget filmmaking." (on re-using themes) "I purposely used a couple of shots (In AOTC) reminiscent of Ray Harryhausen [Clash Of The Titans and Mysterious Island], such as the monster attacking the Jedi with the spear. In each story, I re-visit the same themes. For instance, there is the loss of a parent and the issue of giving up." (On independence) "I am independent. I do not need to listen to the studios. I made this for myself, not money. I don't care about the commercial side of things. Therefore, Star Wars will open in less theaters than Spider-Man. I picked the theaters. I care about the quality of the projection, not just the box office return." (the future) "When I have completed all six movies as part of the Star Wars series. There will be no more Star Wars. Now, I am writing some new scripts which are experimental, non-narrative and non-linear." - GEORGE LUCAS (2) Thursday May 16, 2002 The Guardian With a beneficent wave of his hand, George Lucas declines to make a fuss. It is his 58th birthday and he's in a joyless hotel suite talking about work, but hey, he says with a shrug, that's the way it goes. The checked shirt and scraggly beard are his regular-guy camouflage. He talks in an affable drone. The billionaire creator of Star Wars is anticipating the premiere of Attack of the Clones with the unshakable good humour of a man who controls everything he sees. "I'm sure this one will do fine," he says, reclining contentedly. If there is a tinge of defensiveness in his sunny tone, it is because the latest instalment of Star Wars will inevitably be hammered for failing to live up to its 20-year-old predecessors. Such was the fate of The Phantom Menace and, although this is a better film, it will be received by many Star Wars purists as laughable. There is one scene in which Anakin Skywalker thrashes camply about in his sleep, crying "No!" at his nightmares. It is such a cliche that one assumes it was put in for parodic value; Lucas doesn't smile. "It's not deliberately camp. I made the film in a 1930s style. It's based on a Saturday matinee serial from the 1930s, so the acting style is very 30s, very theatrical, very old-fashioned. Method acting came in in the 1950s and is very predominant today. I prefer to use the old style. People take it different ways, depending on their sophistication." Lucas says he never claimed to be good at writing dialogue. "I've always been a follower of silent movies. I see film as a visual medium with a musical accompaniment, and dialogue is a raft that goes on with it. I create films that way - very visually - and the dialogue's not what's important. I'm one of those people who says, yes, cinema died when they invented sound. The talking-head era of movies is interesting and good, but I'd just like to go to the purer form (3) Page 89-91 in the "Behind the scenes AOTC" book "I wanted to write a love story in a style that was extremely old-fashioned, and frankly I didn't know if I was going to pull it off. In many ways this was much more like a movie that from the 1930s than any of the others had been, with a slightly over-the-top, poetic style-and they just don't do that in movies anymore. I was very happy with the way it turned out in the script and in the performances, but I knew people might not buy it. A lot of guys were going to see this movie, and most guys think that kind of flowery, poetic talk is stupid--'Come on, give me a break.' More sophisticated, cynical types also don't buy that stuff. So I didn't know if people would laugh at it and throw things at the screen or they would accept it. Let's face it, their dialogue in that (couch) scene is pretty corny. It is presented very honestly, it isn't tongue-in-cheek at all, and it's really played to the hilt. But it is consistant with the over all Star Wars style. Most people don't understand the style of SW. They don't get that there is an underlying motif that is very much like a 1930s western or Saturday matinee serial. It's in that more romantic period of making movies and adventure films. And this film is even more of a melodrama then the others."--GEORGE LUCAS These are 100% true -----signature----- Angela Why so serious?
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ksid Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 12/27/02 6:28pm Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason............... - Date Edited: 12/27/02 6:37pm (4 edits total) Edited By: ksid
	Ok this is only my honest opinion, but I think, as far as far as acting and dialogue was concerned Lucas was lazy. The dialogue in AOTC isn't just bad, it's pathetic. Sometimes I wish I could see it, with the dialogue turned off. Note, I'm not talking about sfx here (I don't care about special effects). -----signature----- Psychiatric Helpline 1-800-901-CHIL
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MachinatingMachiavel Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 12/27/02 7:00pm Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason............... - Date Edited: 12/27/02 7:02pm (1 edits total) Edited By: MachinatingMachiavel
	Oh no, the OT doesn't have cheesy campy acting at all. Uh-huh. Again, people are taking common perceived weaknesses in both the OT and the PT; they're denying that they existed in the OT, nostalgia will do that to ya, and hammering the PT for having them. If someone's going to take down the PT, take them down with something more solid than "bad acting". -----signature----- "There is no stability...only politics. The Republic is not what it once was The senate is full of greedy squabbling delegates. There is no interest in the common good." F.I.G.S
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RevengeofDahveed Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 12/27/02 7:11pm Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason............... - Date Edited: 12/27/02 7:13pm (1 edits total) Edited By: RevengeofDahveed
	Hey thanks for the lengthy quotes, ST!! I wonder if hes ever said any of this stuff BEFORE the movies were "filmed". Then it wouldnt seem like such a rationalization. Even if we take him at his word (and i think its perfectly reasonable to do just that)i still find his assertions almost surreal. wow. thanks again ST and in response to the previous post ill just say that the love story in the OT was handled and written VERY differently than the PT. not judging or comparing, but Ray Charles can see the distinction between the two.
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ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Title: Moderator Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 12/27/02 7:16pm Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	No problem I really wish more people who interviewed Lucas before TPM asked him questions about how the acting and dialogue would be like so that he could have cleared this all up before the films came out. I can honestly say I believe Lucas intended the style of the PT (as well as the OT) to be the way it is now in terms of acting (which is still very good from Liam Neeson, Christopher Lee, and Ewan McGregor), and dialogue -----signature----- Angela Why so serious?
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RevengeofDahveed Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 12/27/02 7:23pm Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	well from the above quotes, it seems hes saying that acting style was in part a result of all the "artificial" blue/greenscreen environments. this actually confirms what many suspected/feared: that Lucas' indifference to working with actors was disastrous perfomance-wise because of all the bluescreen stuff. although to be fair, one has to consider poor casting in the case of Jake Lloyd.
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MachinatingMachiavel Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 12/27/02 7:38pm Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	LOL, man you guys make it sound like the actors were completley dead in every scene with blue screen. To me, when Anakin jumps onto the Reek, it doesn't look like he's sitting on a blue piece of wood just staring ahead waiting for something interesting to happen - it looks like he's riding a reek! They DO react when the droids roll in surrounding them at the "intermission" of the arena. You guys make it sound like the actors were practically inanimate. The Confession scene is hardly "bad acting". Even Yoda acted well. Actually he's never acted better. Natalie's love pledge had soul in it. Ian McD, well, needless to say, his lines were perfectly delivered. The Dex/Ewan dialogue was untouchable. I don't see where you guys see bad acting. Corny dialogue, yes, but its Star Wars, not The Silence of the Lambs. -----signature----- "There is no stability...only politics. The Republic is not what it once was The senate is full of greedy squabbling delegates. There is no interest in the common good." F.I.G.S
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RevengeofDahveed Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 12/27/02 8:10pm Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason............... - Date Edited: 12/27/02 8:15pm (1 edits total) Edited By: RevengeofDahveed
	its impossible to "prove" that a particular performance was bad or good. if you really believe that in general the acting was good (or, gulp, great) in AOTC then thats super!! just accept the fact that there are many many intelligent movie buffs/sw fans who would (respectfully) disagree with you. the only question we have is: are we talking DIFFERENT standards here or just LOWER standards. i honestly dont know. although i believe its telling that people continue to single out the performance of Ian McD in the PT as if it were Oscar calibre. he was good. period. in the milieu that is the PT, i guess not embarrassing yourself with GL's dialogue is noteworthy. and i guess it is.
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Darth_Zidious Registered: Dec '01	Date Posted: 12/27/02 8:17pm Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	just accept the fact that there are many many intelligent movie buffs/sw fans who would (respectfully) disagree with you. Thank you for that breaking news! We never heard anyone say this before! Blind we would be without your guidance.
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RevengeofDahveed Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 12/27/02 8:25pm Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	believe me there are several possibly delusional people on this board that are convinced that us non-gushers dont like TPM or (much of) AOTC because we somehow "dont get it". its probably true that the PT naysayers were partly to blame by making some of you feel dumb for liking these movies with rather insensitive posts. maybe i was guilty of this in the past at times. i apologize. it was an obvious point i admit. sorry
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Darth_Zidious Registered: Dec '01	Date Posted: 12/27/02 8:36pm Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	believe me there are several possibly delusional people on this board... No amount of posting will help such people. I have come across very few posters who are blind to the criticism. However, I do strongly believe myself that all five movies are of the same quality. I don't see any big difference between them. i apologize. "Apology accepted", as one famous Darth said.
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DamonD Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 12/27/02 8:41pm Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	"Apology accepted", as one famous Darth said. Without the accompanying Force choke, I assume? -----signature----- I love all 6 Star Wars films. Live with it. Member of FIGS, the Fantastic Ian (McDiarmid) Gushers Society.
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RevengeofDahveed Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 12/27/02 8:50pm Subject: RE: Serial movie making died long ago for a reason...............
	quote: I don't see any big difference between them. I see...[backs away slowly] but i kid Darth Zidious.
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