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Topic:
The Official Matthew Woodring Stover Discussion Thread
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chissdude10
Registered:
Jul '01
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Date Posted:
8/7/02 2:30pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Matthew Woodring Stover Discussion Thread
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WHY do you hate Stover's writing?
He was not meant to write sw novels in my opinion,and he overstated the Vong forces. I also found traitor to be ethically and morally upsetting.
WHAT about it incenses you so?
As I said, I found it upsetting. I also found other parts I hated that I wouldn't dare speak of because I know I will be in deep crap.
HOW did you come to these conclusions.
From my own thinking, how else.
Step Off.
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Mastadge
Title:
Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '99
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Date Posted:
8/7/02 2:36pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Matthew Woodring Stover Discussion Thread
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I asked Stover a while ago, and IIRC, it's "tie-shahl"
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"This will be our reply to violence:
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More devotedly than ever before."
- Leonard Bernstein
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busdriver
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
8/7/02 3:51pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Matthew Woodring Stover Discussion Thread
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Thanks Mr.Stover for writing a great SW's novel. I don't think i, or many others can say that enough. I will defintely have to look up more of your novels at the local book store.
One question (though as i look at the boards you recieve about 50 questions every minute, so you'll likely have no time to respond)
How do you feel about reader's reactions towards your novels being too graphic? Though having only read Traitior, i have heard people who have read your novels that they can be intense, and was just curious on your take.
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"Everything I tell you is the truth"-Vergere
"Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength, War is Peace"- 1984
"Philosophy- Who needs it? Everyone"- Ayn Rand
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dp4m
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
8/7/02 4:59pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Matthew Woodring Stover Discussion Thread
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WHY do you hate Stover's writing?
He was not meant to write sw novels in my opinion,and he overstated the Vong forces. I also found traitor to be ethically and morally upsetting.
But then he's done exactly what a writer generally sets out to do -- affect a reader on a deep, if not visceral, level using nothing but words and ideas. I also found this book to be the one of the first where I thought Yuuzhan Vong forces were NOT invincible or overstated. But I think that was mostly because I gained a greater understanding of how they were grown/cultivated.
WHAT about it incenses you so?
As I said, I found it upsetting. I also found other parts I hated that I wouldn't dare speak of because I know I will be in deep crap.
I'm sorry you found it upsetting -- but does that mean MWStover's WRITING is "crap" in your opinion, or the BOOK? As many know, I absolutely hated that Anakin Solo died in Star by Star, but that doesn't diminish Troy Denning's writing abilities in the slightest. Indeed, due to his writing I found I ranked the book as the highest on my list so far DESPITE my not being happy with the plot. As you yourself are planning on being a writer (fairly shortly, no?) -- would you rather people like your writing or your plots? I'd think it'd be the former...
HOW did you come to these conclusions.
From my own thinking, how else.
Duh! 
I meant because of your religious upbringing, a literary disagreement, prose, etc... what we like and who we are shape many of our likes and dislikes. By exploring these we gain greater understanding of one another -- what community's all about, isn't it?
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"Looks like you're about to get pwned" - Eric Cartman
"Awarding experience points for cleverly and creatively generating an enjoyable experience. How warped is that?" - Darths & Droids
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chissdude10
Registered:
Jul '01
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Date Posted:
8/7/02 5:37pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Matthew Woodring Stover Discussion Thread
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Im sorry, I see what your saying and agree, except I find Stover wrote Traitor in a way I don't like. What he said somtimes I had trouble reading, it always seemed liek there was a line of blasphamy somwhere...
I should not base his writing as crap, but Im going through a sort of crisis as it is with my thinking, and Ive been very angry latly. All Traitor did was make me even more mad.
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MWStover
Title: Author:
-ROTS
-Shatterpoint
-Traitor
Registered:
Jan '02
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Date Posted:
8/7/02 8:33pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Matthew Woodring Stover Discussion Thread
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JB --
Btw, terrific movie. Nice work, fella.
<<1) How does it feel to mess around in such large genre within a genre such as Star Wars? Is it difficult working with characters that are a) not your own b) already in development c) not able to become completely developed within your story?>>
It's most intimidating. TRAITOR wasn't especially difficult from a character standpoint, because every single situation Jacen has to deal with in it is new to him -- he's feeling his way, kind of like I was. To do a novel showing, for example, his relationship with Tenel Ka and his family maturing as he goes through these changes . . . that would have been more challenging.
<<2) How much of your time, if any, was spent consulting other previous and/or future authors in the NJO to gain insight or other material regarding your main characters? How difficult a collaboration was it, if a collaboration at all?>>
A considerable time, just to make sure we weren't contradicting each other. Beyond that, TRAITOR is pretty self-contained.
<<3) Do you feel like you are completely finished with the characters you explored in Traitor?>>
Several of them still have a ways to go, but thye are out of my hands now. I'm not sure that I'll be taking them up again in the future. I'll find out not long before you folks do, I imagine.
And Mast's correct: tie-shahl, with a slight emphasis on the second syllable.
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"My idea of a properly-run universe is one in which everyone in it reads everything I write."
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Nom Anor
Title: TFN Books Staff
Registered:
Mar '00
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Date Posted:
8/7/02 10:24pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Matthew Woodring Stover Discussion Thread
- Date Edited:
8/7/02 10:27pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Nom Anor
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Chissdude,
If my memory's correct, you are Catholic are you not? I'm a Methodist. Now aside from some basic denominational and ceremonial differences, our two religions are basically the same. We won't discuss those differences in depth, because that's not what this forum is about. Needless to say they are both branches of Christianity.
I'll admit that I'm not the perfect example of what a Christian should be. I believe that there is only being who is perfect, and I think you would agree the same.
With that said, I read Traitor and I didn't find anything blasphemous or heretical. In fact, I liked Traitor so much that I've purchased Matt Stover's four other books. Right now I'm reading Iron Dawn. The test will be with Jericho Moon, where Yahweh (the traditional God of Chrisitianity and Judaism) is an antagonist. I am going into it with the assumption that the book is not heretical, but merely a view from the eyes of group typically branded as "evil."
In my beliefs, I find only one force in the universe to be inherently good and one to be inherently evil. People are free to choose which side they will gravitate towards, but are not strictly one or the other. We all have the capacity for "evil" within us and everyone has imperfections, which I think Traitor addresses. I suspect MWS's other novels address this as well.
If you want to go into a more detailed, one-on-one discussion about this with me you know how to reach me. I understand if this is a sensitive issue.
On a side note to Matt Stover, I sincerely hope that doing a Star Wars novel gives you the publicity you deserve. I don't know about the sales figures of your other books, but all the NJO novels invariably end up on the best seller lists, so I see good things for you in the future. Hopefully your other books will make it back into print as well - I had to do some wide searching to find your first two.
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Nick "Nom Anor" Hess 
Author: The Yuuzhan Vong Database
"Dawn. Sweet death of mortal night."
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Mastadge
Title:
Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '99
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Date Posted:
8/7/02 10:32pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Matthew Woodring Stover Discussion Thread
- Date Edited:
8/7/02 11:00pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Mastadge
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The test will be with Jericho Moon, where Yahweh (the traditional God of Chrisitianity and Judaism) is an antagonist.
Don't go into it too sure of that. This is the vengeful God of the Tanakh, not the tender, forgiving God of the New Testament. There was a big personality change from the one text to the other. Also, and it's been a while since I've read the book so I may be remembering faultily, but while God and the Jews are the "bad guys" of the tale -- i.e., the guys giving Barra and Co. a hard time -- they aren't eevil. It's a big conflict of interests, and God doesn't really act any differently than how he's been portrayed in the books of Moses. I mean, if you'll recall, God had people stoned for picking up sticks, punished the people as a whole for the transgressions of one, and called down lightning and earthquakes and stuff for what, today, would seem minor blasphemies.
//note to self: read Jericho Moon again so you can actually discuss it without making an ass of yourself.
EDIT: For the record, I was raised Jewish.
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"This will be our reply to violence:
To make music more intensely,
More beautifully,
More devotedly than ever before."
- Leonard Bernstein
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Nom Anor
Title: TFN Books Staff
Registered:
Mar '00
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Date Posted:
8/7/02 10:52pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Matthew Woodring Stover Discussion Thread
- Date Edited:
8/7/02 10:57pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Nom Anor
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Also, and it's been a while since I've read the book so I may be remembering faultily, but while God and the Jews are the "bad guys" of the tale -- i.e., the guys giving Barra and Co. a hard time -- they aren't eevil. It's a big conflict of interests, and God doesn't really act any differently than how he's been portrayed in the books of Moses.
That's what I was attempting to explain, but it's a little difficult having not read the book yet (so you're "note to self" applies to me in this case as well ). It's just a familiar story seen through someone else's eyes.
Basically what I was trying to say (in a complex jumble of words) is that the role of antagonist is merely a point-of-view issue. That's why I'm not too worried about Jericho Moon being a "blasphemous" book.
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Nick "Nom Anor" Hess
Author: The Yuuzhan Vong Database
"Dawn. Sweet death of mortal night."
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CooperTFN
Title: TF.n EU Staff Emeritus
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
8/8/02 12:38am
Subject:
RE: The Official Matthew Woodring Stover Discussion Thread
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I'm hesitant to get into the debate here, as I think I just began getting into it in the "Nature of the Force" thread, so instead, this is me making a smartass comment about the fact that chissdude said "Step Off".
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Mike Cooper's Official Site http://www.helikitty.com "Your tongues can't repel flavor of that magnitude!" "If nobody KNOWS that they're related, is it that big of a deal?" - Eleventh_Guard "I bid you all Dark Greetings!"
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The Gatherer
Title: Manager Emeritus/TF.N Books Staff
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
8/8/02 3:03am
Subject:
RE: The Official Matthew Woodring Stover Discussion Thread
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Hi everyone,
Just wanted to let you know that the interview with TF.N Books and Matt Stover is now available at the following link:
http://theforce.net/jedicouncil/interview/mattstover.shtml
Enjoy!
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Co-Author - Timetales
http://www.theforce.net/timetales
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TFN Books Contributor
http://www.theforce.net/books
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KansasNavy
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
8/8/02 8:21am
Subject:
RE: The Official Matthew Woodring Stover Discussion Thread
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I think MWS is the boldest author to enter the SW fold. Not only is he willing to say crap in an interview, but also be the first to write 'crappy' in a SW novel (as far as I know). I just find that funny, and I don't know why. That's also interesting that he might've stolen some ideas if he could've.
How far along is Matt with Shatterpoint?
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Mavrick889
Registered:
Feb '99
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Date Posted:
8/8/02 9:17am
Subject:
RE: The Official Matthew Woodring Stover Discussion Thread
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I'm decidedly agnostic and I loved the book. And no, there aren't any hugely antireligious tones in the book...
At least none that I noticed.
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dp4m
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
8/8/02 9:43am
Subject:
RE: The Official Matthew Woodring Stover Discussion Thread
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I'm decidedly agnostic and I loved the book. And no, there aren't any hugely antireligious tones in the book...
Well... that's your opinion.
Of course, I never noticed the Christian elements to The Chronicles of Narnia when I was reading them as a child (and neither did CS Lewis when he wrote them apparently)... but others did.
It's all a matter of opinion. A certain point of view, if you will...
I, myself, didn't notice anything *inherently* anti-religious in overtones... however, I can see where some of the undertones of "Everything you have been taught about this being inherently evil is wrong -- it's not evil if you don't let it be evil" could SERIOUSLY affect very religious persons.
-----signature-----
"Looks like you're about to get pwned" - Eric Cartman
"Awarding experience points for cleverly and creatively generating an enjoyable experience. How warped is that?" - Darths & Droids
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CooperTFN
Title: TF.n EU Staff Emeritus
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
8/8/02 1:07pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Matthew Woodring Stover Discussion Thread
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From a certain point of view, the entire NJO can be taken as a statement against religion, considering who the bad guys are and how their society functions.
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Mike Cooper's Official Site http://www.helikitty.com "Your tongues can't repel flavor of that magnitude!" "If nobody KNOWS that they're related, is it that big of a deal?" - Eleventh_Guard "I bid you all Dark Greetings!"
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