Jedi Council Forums - Drive You Mild (L/M, massive AU -- {Updated March 4!} Complete.)

Locked Topic | Read Only Topic | Previous Active Topic | Next Active Topic

« 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 » - Previous | Next | Reload

Author	Topic: Drive You Mild (L/M, massive AU -- {Updated March 4!} Complete.)
RebelPrincess Registered: Jan '01	Date Posted: 1/18/05 9:43pm Subject: RE: Drive You Mild (L/M, massive AU -- political intrigue, romance, drama -- {UPDATED Jan. 18!})
	“Not at all,” Luke replied. “Sith are just blinded by Darkness as Jedi can be by Light.” “The Light doesn’t blind,” Jade snapped. “No,” Luke agreed. “But you can use it to blind yourself. The Dark Side blinds all on its own.” He shrugged, leaving the obvious unsaid. Great lines...so true. I'm really enjoying the discussions between Luke and Mara. They both bring up good points. I still wanna know what Luke's up to! Looking forward to Friday! -----signature----- ROTS: Best. Movie. Ever.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
JediArwen Registered: Dec '02	Date Posted: 1/19/05 7:18am Subject: RE: Drive You Mild (L/M, massive AU -- political intrigue, romance, drama -- {UPDATED Jan. 18!})
	This is getting better and better, oba! More and more hints, more L/M interaction... L/M do not seem friendly but they are certainly curious about the other. Very curious, or more specific as Adi had said fascinated... The first step on falling for each other... Although, I think -and hope- that they'll have a long way ahead and we'll have a lot of this magnificently written interaction! Luke certainly is not a Sith, or at least he is a strange kind of Sith... And have many secret agendas... “That the Light and Dark Side are different, exact opposites, is not in question – but are intelligent beings so clear?” Careful, he warned himself. Don’t get to close to the truth. Very interesting theory! Much of my liking... I am very curious where you'll lead the story. My brain is working overtime, but... And probably he left Tatooine at 12 years old... No one but the Council knew where Obi-Wan had been for twelve years; and of course “Luke isn’t stupid. I’m not sure Sefer was an attempt at a decoy,” Obi-Wan said, looking at Adi. Mace didn’t fail to note that Obi-Wan still referred to Skywalker so familiarly, it's obvious where Obi was. I am still very curious to what happened and how Luke left Tatooine and come to leave with Vader...
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
DreamOfKenobi Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 1/19/05 9:37am Subject: RE: Drive You Mild (L/M, massive AU -- political intrigue, romance, drama -- {UPDATED Jan. 18!})
	Since I don't log on that often, I'm a little behind. But this story is worth every minute! I love it. Nicely done! -----signature----- Counting the days 'til Episode III "What happens in the cave stays in the cave." "You're going to be the death of me..." We are the Vaders and we plan to take over the galaxy!
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
LianaMara Registered: Oct '00	Date Posted: 1/19/05 9:58am Subject: RE: Drive You Mild (L/M, massive AU -- political intrigue, romance, drama -- {UPDATED Jan. 18!})
	LOVE the dialogue between Luke and Mara, oba. And Adi is right - they're much too intrigued by each other. Although if I were in Mara's situation, I must admit that the mind of an odd Sith Lord (if he even is one - I doubt Luke is truly evil) would be fun to unravel and disect. And I have now learned that I don't want to threaten Emperor!Luke - he may not be Sithy, but he is dangerous. [face_huggles] & partays with the Vaderians -----signature----- "For us, there is only the trying. The rest is not our business." --T.S. Eliot Leilaé, handmaiden of the Crest \|\| petit Jedi enfant of obaona \|\| Lani & Lali's blonde triplet
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
obaona Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 1/20/05 12:42am Subject: RE: Drive You Mild (L/M, massive AU -- political intrigue, romance, drama -- {UPDATED Jan. 18!})
	DarthIshtar: Thanks. The original version had the other word for an illegimate child, but I can't post that here, so . VaderLVR64: Thank you. Hehehe, and don't be jealous - I've been mostly lurking (I'm bad, I know), but I was catching up on your fics, and you're quite the talent. Exactly - it's not exactly romantic. But why would it be at this point? One of the things about this story that I think is different is that the whole romance part isn't going to come easily. It isn't fated to be, it's a decision they have to make. shrugs I don't want to spoil things for you, though. Elena: You're exactly right - that's what he does, that's what he has to do. And he's good at it. Sorry, no Han. Thanks for reading. RedGold: Thanks for reading. I'm glad you liked the whole Luke/grayness part. I found that really interesting to write, and the philosophical portions really sneaked themselves in. Chimpanzees? I don't want to know. Jedi-2B: No, he's not - and moreover, why should he be? A politican is not what he is. He's a leader of Jedi if he's a leader of anything. That's not to say, though, that he couldn't become very politically astute, even given the moisture farming background, but I just don't think it's a priority - I don't think it would really occur to him to do so, or as it being important (which perhaps it isn't). Luke has always seemed very intelligent to me, and if he had grown up under different circumstances, I think he could be like this, at least to some degree. If the old Jedi Order had never fallen, I think Luke would have made a great warrior/diplomat. Kind of like Qui-Gon Jinn. Anyway! Gabri said the same thing, about the two of them calling each other by their first names. So let me just tell you - you wait a while. Yep, Luke decided a major action was needed - Mara is making big leaps, and not ones he wants her to make. I'm also glad you liked the philosophy, as a lot of what I think creeps (obviously) into what Luke is saying to Mara. Really, you're just spot-on with your entire comment. Straddling the fence, eh? Thank you so much. LukesTheMan: Thank you. Jedi Trace: Did I ever mention that this story only gets more intense as time goes on? Thank you! Jedi_BMK: He imagined things would be difficult, but the way she moves past his emotional defenses is entirely unexpected. And you're right, that will come in it's own time. I'm glad you think Luke had a good point about Light and Darkness, and how they affect each other in people - it's something that I think, and something that seems to be to be exemplfied in Darth Vader, so - yeah. Thank you! Smuggler_Shidakis: The idea has certainly been opened up to her, and that's not something she had before. Acceptance of that, or even belief in it? Not quite yet. Thanks for reading. LaYa_: As I said to someone else, 'Sithspawned' was originally something different. I'm glad you liked the tension, and thank you. Jedi_Chani: Thanks! It certainly ended up being far more complex than I planned, though when you get down to it, and see it as a whole - I think it's actually pretty simple in theory. TheCrazyRodian: Thank you, I do try. HandofSkywalker86: Excuse me, a what? And yes, Luke is quite used to thinking on his feet, I imagine. Don't worry, Mara gets the last word eventually. Thank you! Leia: laughs Thank you. It's funny, my beta was reminded by that first line you quoted by a poem, about how perfection loses some of its beauty. I don't watch that show, but I have to agree - even if something isn't perfect, it can still beautiful. Just ask the mother of a wrinkly newborn baby. You're right, who could? Unless one was going through a whole list of cursewords, instead of the briefer 'damn!' and 'hell!' and so on. I'm glad you adore Luke's theories - that was fun to write, though totally unexpected from my perspective. People are very complex, and that's something that's really taken into account in this story. My beta and I were talking about Luke in this story, and how his character is defined by what he says and what he doesn't say. I allude to a lot of things in this story that give you a better insight into Luke's character. I forgive you. Thanks for reading, and the wonderful reply. Elli: giggles Aye, stars is one, certainly. Star Wars curses don't seem very practical to me, by and large. Luke's reactions are important. Delving into his psychology was fascinating. But yeah, I don't think anyone would dare to analyze Luke, assuming he even let them. And they probably wouldn't understand a lot of what he said anyway, unless they were a Jedi . . . and, well - yeah. Interesting you think that about the Light, though. I was trying to make a distinction between the Darkness blinding those who use it, and the Jedi blinding themselves with the Light. Hm. hugs and random nothingness right back Katarina42: Hope to see you there! Though why I keep getting the urge to post on Thursdays, I'll never know. RebelMom: I think I like writing this Luke better than Dark!Luke. Thank you! StarFighter5: I bet. See you on Friday. Somethingaboutme: Hehehe, thanks! And believe me, it is! Also much more difficult, though - trying to balance the two. I'm glad he's coming across well. Thank you! Jesina_Dreis: Aye. They're concerned with just reason. Interesting remark about what Luke says about the Force. I'm surprised and pleased you agree - because that's kind of what I think happened to the PT Jedi. I must admit, I tend to respect the New Jedi Order more than the old, because they seem so much more grounded in practicality (though clearly lacking the polish of the old Jedi). Thank you! Knight_Aragorn: You may, and I'll blush furiously. This story added another thing to my list of writing goals: clarity, conciseness, and doing three things at once in every scene. No wordiness, or extraneous scenes. The philosophy wasn't part of the plan for the story, but it worked out well, and it's something they end up discussing a lot - it's also very necessary to the story in the end, I think, because from their philosophy arises their actions. Oh yeah, Mara got to Luke. I think the Jedi did blind themselves (I'm glad you agree [face_happiness] ), and I think that's one of the reasons the Sith were able to destroy them. I don't they connected to people anymore, or that they saw themselves clearly. I like how you draw your conclusions - you're quite right, why else would Luke get so aggressive, unless it was true? One could say, I suppose, that even if it wasn't true, it wasn't what he wanted to her think, so really, it didn't matter if it were true or not, just whether she believed it to be true ... But I'm already confusing myself. I think Luke would expect some difficulty with Mara, actually. Remember, he wants a choice that he can manipulate but that the NR will still trust, and a weak bride wouldn't do for that. Perhaps he simply overestimated his ability to control her. I think Mara is just as stubborn here as in canon. And hey, I love you're rambling. Thank you! RebelPrincess: Thank you. They do talk a lot, don't they? As for what Luke is up to, well ... JediArwen: Thank you. I try to please my readers. You're right, they're very curious about one another - but I think Mara is more likely to admit to that than Luke, at this point. And yes, you can be relieved - there's a very long way to go, and tons more L/M interaction. Perhaps it is as was said earlier - that he is not a Sith, but he has the skills of one. What would that make him? Not quite a Dark Jedi ... I'm glad you liked the theory Luke proposes. Where do I lead the story? Intriguing places. And very good deduction on your part - I'm willing to admit that you are quite right. DreamOfKenobi: Thank you! I'm glad you're enjoying, and have fun catching up. LianaMara: Thanks! Hey, it was fun for me to unravel and dissect, and I was writing him. But it's a dangerous situation for Mara to be in - for her to allow herself to be in. Adi knows that, even if Mara doesn't. Yep, Lukie is very dangerous. You're partying with the Vaderians?? -----signature----- MS Word is designed by sadists with masochists in mind. - teh atty my recent Atton (KOTOR2) fic: http://boards.theforce.net/before_the_saga/b10475/30335989
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Jesina_Dreis Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 1/20/05 1:44am Subject: RE: Drive You Mild (L/M, massive AU -- political intrigue, romance, drama -- {UPDATED Jan. 18!}) - Date Edited: 1/20/05 1:46am (1 edits total) Edited By: Jesina_Dreis
	I must admit, I tend to respect the New Jedi Order more than the old, because they seem so much more grounded in practicality (though clearly lacking the polish of the old Jedi). Are you familiar with the original Jedi code, from about 4000 BBY? There's a debate going on about it in Lit, and what you said about practicality reminded me of it. Original Jedi Code: Emotion, Yet peace Ignorance, yet knowledge Passion, yet serenity Chaos, yet harmony Death, yet the Force Current Jedi Code There is no emotion. There is peace. There is no ignorance. There is knowledge. There is no passion, There is serenity. There is no death. There is the Force. Most people debating are of the impression that Luke should return to the old code, that it fits his outlook on the Force better than the current one does, and that it is more practical to accept emotion, ignorance, etcetera, and to accept that they do influence the way the Jedi act, whether or not they are supposed to. I know this isn't exactly what you're talking about, but what you said about practicality reminded me of it. It almost seems like, in this story, Luke sees it more with the duality that the original code implies, especially looking at the conversation he had with Mara in your last post. He doesn't seem to see it as Black and White/Light and Dark the way Yoda, for example, appeared to. I can give you the link if you're interested. ~Jes~ -----signature----- Stay safe, Ev Big sister to valin_halcyon Rest in Peace, Jeremy http://www.heatherjanes.com http://z9.invisionfree.com/downtime
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
obaona Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 1/20/05 1:58am Subject: RE: Drive You Mild (L/M, massive AU -- political intrigue, romance, drama -- {UPDATED Jan. 18!}) - Date Edited: 1/20/05 2:01am (1 edits total) Edited By: obaona
	You're going to find this funny: I'm lurking on that thread. (Oops, I should be about lurking. ) Most people debating are of the impression that Luke should return to the old code, that it fits his outlook on the Force better than the current one does, and that it is more practical to accept emotion, ignorance, etcetera, and to accept that they do influence the way the Jedi act, whether or not they are supposed to. I agree with that. It does seem more balanced, and frankly, more practical. The Jedi can intrepret the Code (as it is) all they want, but when it comes down to the simple words, I think the old one is just more logical and practical. I know this isn't exactly what you're talking about, but what you said about practicality reminded me of it. Obviously the thread didn't exist when I began writing this story (or wrote the parts I've posted), but it certainly does apply. It almost seems like, in this story, Luke sees it more with the duality that the original code implies, especially looking at the conversation he had with Mara in your last post. He doesn't seem to see it as Black and White/Light and Dark the way Yoda, for example, appeared to. You're right, he does. Something I hadn't (couldn't) consider at the time, but Luke would be more likely to believe in the old code than the new one. If I ever do a sequel, I'll certainly have to keep this in mind. I find it to be a fascinating discussion, and kind of a - different look into how the PT Jedi are set up (in the head), as opposed to before or after. With Luke's background (the one in this story, and to some degree, perhaps even the canon one), he can't ever see things that simply, nor do I think he could ever accept it as blindly as the Jedi are taught to. It says in some PT-era book that the Jedi are taught to question everything - and I tend to think, everything but the Code. It's too engrained in them to obey it without question (because they aren't wise enough to question) when they're Padawans. At least, that's my opinion. Perhaps that's also why Mara is apparently so willing to go against what the Jedi are telling her (stay away from Dark!Lukie) and question what is, for the Jedi, the very basis of their lives. Emotion, Yet peace Ignorance, yet knowledge Passion, yet serenity Chaos, yet harmony Death, yet the Force That just sounds so cool. [edit] Whoa, I really rambled. But that was a great, thought provoking comment - had to reply. -----signature----- MS Word is designed by sadists with masochists in mind. - teh atty my recent Atton (KOTOR2) fic: http://boards.theforce.net/before_the_saga/b10475/30335989
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
ThePariah Registered: Jan '03	Date Posted: 1/20/05 2:05am Subject: RE: Drive You Mild (L/M, massive AU -- political intrigue, romance, drama -- {UPDATED Jan. 18!})
	catches up and delurks You know what, Oba? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that, for all of his political acumen, discipline, and formality, this is one of the most human portrayals of Luke that I've ever read, period. Call me crazy, but I've never felt such an unequivocal sense of honesty in his character before this story, and it has nothing to do with his manipulations as a ruler. The way he is here reminds me of an old dicho that Mom always says: "Ni muy bueno, ni muy malo"--"Neither too good or too evil." Mom said this is the best way a person can be in order to be a decent person and not get taken advantage of in life. Everybody's already commented on this "grayness" of character well enough that I don't need to repeat it, but I think I'm unique in thinking that I almost love this Luke more than his normal, virtuous self, because it doesn't restrict him from his inherent humanity. I don't equate humanity with humanitarianism here, but with the antithesis of dehumanization...and if you want to know what I'm talking about, just go check the EU. In a nutshell, I feel like standing up and cheering for this fic not only because it's unspeakably fantastic, but because for once, finally, at last...there's a Luke who isn't afraid to live. -----signature----- Eternal Groveler to rhonderoo, VaderLVR64, Knight_Aragorn, Oba, & the SJRS crew Has a postcard from the Dark Side. "I suspect that most if not all the world's ills could be cured by humour transplants."--Karen Traviss TEMPORARY SET-UP!!!
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Jesina_Dreis Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 1/20/05 2:14am Subject: RE: Drive You Mild (L/M, massive AU -- political intrigue, romance, drama -- {UPDATED Jan. 18!}) - Date Edited: 1/20/05 2:15am (1 edits total) Edited By: Jesina_Dreis
	You're going to find this funny: I'm lurking on that thread. I've just started to get up the nerve to post in Lit...and I'm not surprised that that drew you. I agree with that. It does seem more balanced, and frankly, more practical. The Jedi can intrepret the Code (as it is) all they want, but when it comes down to the simple words, I think the old one is just more logical and practical. The Jedi order that Yoda and Ben were from just seemed to take the new code too literally. I actually kinda liked Anakin's defense of a Jedi being able to love in AotC. And I don't think that the Jedi could do what they do without feeling passion for it...but then, maybe I have a different definition of passion. I tend to equate passtion with a fervent belief in something, and I would say that the Jedi are nothing if not passionate about their devotion to the Force. Obviously the thread didn't exist when I began writing this story (or wrote the parts I've posted), but it certainly does apply. Funny how that works...it almost suggests that the New Jedi Order are really a lot like the ancient Jedi Order? I find it to be a fascinating discussion, and kind of a - different look into how the PT Jedi are set up (in the head), as opposed to before or after. Like I said above...it's almost an indication of Luke's parallels to the older order, the one that went by the original code. With Luke's background (the one in this story, and to some degree, perhaps even the canon one), he can't ever see things that simply, nor do I think he could ever accept it as blindly as the Jedi are taught to. I agree, wholeheartedly. I think he's been through too much to see it that way. The New Jedi Order...they have other "jobs" so to speak. Luke was a fighter pilot. By the NJO Jaina is as well. Leia is a politician. They do other things that, I think, don't allow they to see it in black and white. There are shades of gray and I think Luke's experiences, the intermittent and late training he received, etcetera, combine to enable him to see the gray areas. It says in some PT-era book that the Jedi are taught to question everything - and I tend to think, everything but the Code. You know, right as you said that, I was thinking "everything but the Code" myself. And it's interesting to look at AotC and to see that Anakin clearly DOES question it...I think his conversation with Padme about love is an indication of that. As is, you could say, his marriage to her. And then, we see what happens to him, and it makes me wonder if the Jedi would attribute his fall to the fact that he questioned the Code, at least in part. It's too engrained in them to obey it without question (because they aren't wise enough to question) when they're Padawans. And, unfortunately, by the time they're adults, everything they do is built on that foundation. To question it is to shatter the ground on which they stand. Perhaps that's also why Mara is apparently so willing to go against what the Jedi are telling her (stay away from Dark!Lukie) and question what is, for the Jedi, the very basis of their lives. And how will they react when she does that? That just sounds so cool. It's interesting to me, because it's an acknowledgment of everything that exists and that impacts the lives of the Jedi and those whom they serve. It accepts the Jedi live in the greater galaxy, not in their own cocoon. Well, I need to get to bed, but I'll gladly continue this discussion tomorrow. Jes -----signature----- Stay safe, Ev Big sister to valin_halcyon Rest in Peace, Jeremy http://www.heatherjanes.com http://z9.invisionfree.com/downtime
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
obaona Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 1/20/05 3:07am Subject: RE: Drive You Mild (L/M, massive AU -- political intrigue, romance, drama -- {UPDATED Jan. 18!})
	ThePariah: Wow, that's a really amazing comment. You've really got me thinking here. I understand what you're saying, but it wasn't something I'd actively considered before. But you know, Lucas himself said that Luke makes all the right choices (at least in the movies ) where Anakin made the wrong ones. Luke is, can be, something of an idealized character, and since he is portrayed that way to a degree even in the films, it's pretty inescapable. There's always a sense that while Luke is tempted by the Dark Side, he's a complete good guy. Considering your view (which I don't disagree with, btw), where the story goes might be especially interesting for you. I'm suddenly seeing philosophical implications that I hadn't considered before, in the darkness in Luke, as well as the light. Ultimately, though, if I'm reading what you're saying right, the thing isn't that this Luke is touched by darkness that makes him so human, but that he's so touched by the grayness of life - and is himself dancing in those gray areas. I hope that makes sense. Still, the Luke we know so well isn't entirely without those gray areas, and they've been explored somewhat (even in the EU, yes ). But this is way more extreme than that (thought I'm not sure extreme is the right word). Anyway. Great comment. Thank you. Jesina_Dreis: I've just started to get up the nerve to post in Lit...and I'm not surprised that that drew you. Discussion on the various forms of lightsaber combat also interest me (in a 'these people know way more than me, but this is cool!' sort of way), but yeah ... I haven't really gotten my courage up yet - I've posted there a few times, and that's it. The Jedi order that Yoda and Ben were from just seemed to take the new code too literally. I actually kinda liked Anakin's defense of a Jedi being able to love in AotC. And I don't think that the Jedi could do what they do without feeling passion for it...but then, maybe I have a different definition of passion. I tend to equate passtion with a fervent belief in something, and I would say that the Jedi are nothing if not passionate about their devotion to the Force. I agree. I also liked Anakin's defense - it makes way more sense to me than the Jedi Order's attitude on love, from what I've seen. I also agree with your defintion of passion. I think the Jedi see passion as something out of control and wild, and their devotion to the Jedi as more - their purpose, their calling, so of course they're happy doing it. It's the way things are meant to be. Whereas Anakin, I think, sees being a Jedi as being passionate about helping others. Which again, is more compassionate than 'oh, it's my purpose'. (At least, I think so.) Like I said above...it's almost an indication of Luke's parallels to the older order, the one that went by the original code. I think you might be right, which is something I hadn't considered. The PT Jedi tend to be, in my mind, the 'old' Jedi - hard to remember that there was a Jedi Order before that, with different ideals and beliefs. Of course, that has interesting implications for Anakin and the whole Chosen One thing, if you think about it. Anakin is supposed to balance the Force by killing Palpy (and destroying the Sith), no? But he also changes the Jedi, back to what they used to be. (At least, sort of. But then again, Luke was the catalyst for Anakin killing Palpy, I suppose Anakin can be the catalyst for changing the Jedi.) Probably going wild here. I think he's been through too much to see it that way. The New Jedi Order...they have other "jobs" so to speak. Luke was a fighter pilot. By the NJO Jaina is as well. Leia is a politician. They do other things that, I think, don't allow they to see it in black and white. There are shades of gray and I think Luke's experiences, the intermittent and late training he received, etcetera, combine to enable him to see the gray areas. They're coming at it from all kinds of different angles, I think, which allows for so much more understanding. With the old Jedi, they were all brought up the same way - with different talents and ultimately different missions, but still with that same base. So not just different jobs - or maybe not even that at all, if I can disagree - but something even more fundemental than that. It seems to me that Luke is, in the EU, generally pretty careful not to say 'this is the right way to do things', beyond things like 'don't turn to the Dark Side'. You know, right as you said that, I was thinking "everything but the Code" myself. And it's interesting to look at AotC and to see that Anakin clearly DOES question it...I think his conversation with Padme about love is an indication of that. As is, you could say, his marriage to her. And then, we see what happens to him, and it makes me wonder if the Jedi would attribute his fall to the fact that he questioned the Code, at least in part. You know, they could. In fact, they probably would, if any of them aren't busy enough running to think about it. So Luke's ignorance is kind of refreshing, in that way, because he isn't influenced so much by that kind of thinking. Of course, perhaps his not following the Code was responsible for his fall in a sense, because he knew the Code was wrong, but had no clue what was right, then, either. Palpatine probably found him a lot easier to sway into his line of thinking for that reason. And, unfortunately, by the time they're adults, everything they do is built on that foundation. To question it is to shatter the ground on which they stand. Exactly! And how will they react when she does that? Will they even know? It's interesting to me, because it's an acknowledgment of everything that exists and that impacts the lives of the Jedi and those whom they serve. It accepts the Jedi live in the greater galaxy, not in their own cocoon. nods I started thinking about the 'ignorance, yet knowledge' line as opposed to 'There is no ignorance. There is knowledge' line. The second sounds kind of, well, arrogant - whereas the first doesn't, admitting fault, and yet, not letting go of knowledge just because of that. That's what I get when I just look at the words. Well, I need to get to bed, but I'll gladly continue this discussion tomorrow. I look forward to it. Hope you don't mind me going through this point by point. -----signature----- MS Word is designed by sadists with masochists in mind. - teh atty my recent Atton (KOTOR2) fic: http://boards.theforce.net/before_the_saga/b10475/30335989
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Neo-Paladin Registered: Dec '04	Date Posted: 1/20/05 6:34am Subject: Fantastic
	Personally I love the Vaderians. I just like the idea that Vader had such a strong sense of presence that a cult devoted to him cropped up. Their trying to kill his son and apparent heir makes me wonder if someone is pulling their strings... As to the code, this has been an interesting discussion. I think the thing to keep in mind is the Jedi sought (for lack of a better word) Zen. This is a state far removed from the everyday, when you are enlightened and everyone else around you is not that creates a barrier. You see the world differently. In the Force this gives the Jedi great strength and great weakness. I take the Jedi code and imply that the phrase "in the force" is added to the end of the first three lines: There is no emotion. There is peace in the force . There is no ignorance. There is knowledge in the force . There is no passion, There is serenity in the force . There is no death. There is the Force. Now it makes more sense to me (as a member of the unenlightened masses ). As for the last line, it can stand as is if you paid attention to what Yoda said in ESB: "Beings of light are we, not this crude flesh!" A key lesson that seems to be forgotten by most people, but I've found it the most powerful and important line in ESB (even more so than "I am your father!"). Wow, this must be a good story. It's generated a lot of intelligent discussion. Kudos and thanks. -----signature----- Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar. Edward R. Murrow
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
WhosScruffyLooking Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 1/20/05 6:59am Subject: RE: Drive You Mild (L/M, massive AU -- political intrigue, romance, drama -- {UPDATED Jan. 18!})
	I've been reading, but not sure I posted. Very interesting story. I also saw a correlation with Dune, which is fantastic. Another great sci-fi book (mostly the first one, at least in my opinion) Luke as a politically savvy Emperor is extremely interesting. I like seeing this side of him. No farmboy here, but still Luke. Nice!
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
The_Good_Twin Registered: Jun '03	Date Posted: 1/20/05 11:44am Subject: RE: Drive You Mild (L/M, massive AU -- political intrigue, romance, drama -- {UPDATED Jan. 18!})
	“I have my lightsaber,” she pointed out softly, “and you are unarmed.” “I am the weapon,” Luke hissed. - With a casual flick, Luke shifted the lightsaber away from her throat, turning it on as the business end faced beyond her. He dropped it over her shoulder, and while she was fast in grabbing the hilt, she wasn’t fast enough to stop the blade from lightly touching her skin. - I've never thought that Luke would really hurt Mara. But well, Mara had just to be a little bit faster the next time. So it's not really his fault alone. Skywalker was a lying Sithspawn after all. Good intentions, her ass. Great line. But is Mara as a Jedi allowed to use such a language? Nevertheless that line was just typically Mara. Great post again! -----signature----- "Ich geh' jetzt 'nen Plätzchen mampfen, Mampfred!" "Wie, du stehst auf der Leitung?"- "Hä? Ich hab' gesagt,ich hab' 'nen Finger in der Zeitung!" - ".. ?:\|.."
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
academygrad88 Registered: Apr '04	Date Posted: 1/20/05 12:27pm Subject: RE: Drive You Mild (L/M, massive AU -- political intrigue, romance, drama -- {UPDATED Jan. 18!})
	WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL!!! Sorry that I cannot make a long post. I have been busy with a project deadline. I cannot wait until tomorrow's update! Keep up the good work!!! AG88 -----signature----- I love my Bomb Disposal Expert Winner of more Golden Ewoks™ than you can possibly imagine! Check out the pictures I made: http://ag88.deviantart.com/ ! You will Kriff Luke Skywalker!~ The Real last Command http://swff.bpweb.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Jesina_Dreis Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 1/20/05 12:56pm Subject: RE: Drive You Mild (L/M, massive AU -- political intrigue, romance, drama -- {UPDATED Jan. 18!})
	I agree. I also liked Anakin's defense - it makes way more sense to me than the Jedi Order's attitude on love, from what I've seen. Exactly...I can't understand how an Order so dedicated to, essentially, the preservation of life can be opposed to love. It just doesn't make sense. I mean, I can understand where they're coming from, that emotional entanglements can cause problems, but it still seems so out of touch with their reason for existing. I also agree with your defintion of passion. I think the Jedi see passion as something out of control and wild, and their devotion to the Jedi as more - their purpose, their calling, so of course they're happy doing it. It's the way things are meant to be. Whereas Anakin, I think, sees being a Jedi as being passionate about helping others. Which again, is more compassionate than 'oh, it's my purpose'. (At least, I think so.) I agree, completely. I mean, think about how Ben and Yoda react to Luke running off to Cloud City. Granted, they understand how important it is for Luke to remain alive and true to the Light in a way that he does not. But they pretty much dismiss his feelings - any feelings, really. And they expect him to do the same, and he can't, because he wasn't raised to have that absence of passion. Of course, that has interesting implications for Anakin and the whole Chosen One thing, if you think about it. Anakin is supposed to balance the Force by killing Palpy (and destroying the Sith), no? But he also changes the Jedi, back to what they used to be. (At least, sort of. But then again, Luke was the catalyst for Anakin killing Palpy, I suppose Anakin can be the catalyst for changing the Jedi.) Probably going wild here No, I see what you mean. Maybe the balance the Jedi needed wasn't just in the Force, Light/Dark, but also in the Jedi themselves. The Old Code seems much more balanced than the new. They're coming at it from all kinds of different angles, I think, which allows for so much more understanding. With the old Jedi, they were all brought up the same way - with different talents and ultimately different missions, but still with that same base. So not just different jobs - or maybe not even that at all, if I can disagree - but something even more fundemental than that. You can certainly disagree...you said what I was trying to say far better than I managed to. Of course, in my defense, it was 5:30 am for me. They've all had different training, come from different places in the galaxy, different places in their lives. Some have served the Dark Side in one way or another, some have not. Some have been trained from childhood, others learned about their talents years into their lives. They've all had different experiences and I think that they each balance out the others in a way the prequel-era Jedid didn't have. It seems to me that Luke is, in the EU, generally pretty careful not to say 'this is the right way to do things', beyond things like 'don't turn to the Dark Side'. I think part of that's because he doesn't know. But I think more of it is, he doesn't feel that it's his place to dictate how the Jedi should live their lives - and I think that's a good thing. You know, they could. In fact, they probably would, if any of them aren't busy enough running to think about it. I'd be interested to see a conversation between Yoda, Mace, Ben, about Anakin's fall, see what they attribute it to. I bet it's not to their own ignorance. So Luke's ignorance is kind of refreshing, in that way, because he isn't influenced so much by that kind of thinking. Of course, perhaps his not following the Code was responsible for his fall in a sense, because he knew the Code was wrong, but had no clue what was right, then, either. Palpatine probably found him a lot easier to sway into his line of thinking for that reason. You mean Anakin's ignorance? Threw me for a second. I think Anakin was kind of in limbo. He didn't have the Jedi upbringing either, coming into it at ten years old. There's a line in a song, "You've got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything." I think it kind of applies to Anakin. He was swayed by Palpatine because he DIDN'T have a belief to cling to...but then, I think I'm just restating what you're saying. nods I started thinking about the 'ignorance, yet knowledge' line as opposed to 'There is no ignorance. There is knowledge' line. The second sounds kind of, well, arrogant - whereas the first doesn't, admitting fault, and yet, not letting go of knowledge just because of that. That's what I get when I just look at the words. Y'know, I said just about exactly that over in Lit: to presume that there is no Ignorance among the Jedi is incredibly arrogant. Maybe this is why I like your story so much. We seem to agree quite a bit on the philosophy of it. I think that's why I like your writing of Luke. As ruthless as he seems to be, I think he sees the Force the way I think the Jedi should...and in less strange terms as Jacen. Hope you don't mind me going through this point by point. Not at all...I'm doing the same thing. Jes -----signature----- Stay safe, Ev Big sister to valin_halcyon Rest in Peace, Jeremy http://www.heatherjanes.com http://z9.invisionfree.com/downtime
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History

« 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 » - Previous | Next | Reload