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obaona Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 5/24/05 10:08pm Subject: A Symbol, Perhaps (ROTS spoilers, Luke & Ben Skywalker vignette)
	Thanks for clicking, and for any who did not see the title, there be ROTS SPOILERS here. Title: A Symbol, Perhaps Summary: Ben talks with his father about his grandfather and destiny. Author's Note: I finally saw ROTS on the 23, and whoa. I won't go into my emotional reaction to it, though it was a huge one. Ever since I saw it, though, I wanted to write a fic in some way connected to at least some of the amazing themes and ideas and emotion presented in it. Finally, unexpectedly, this came to me today. (And as usual, bad title. sigh) Many, huge thanks to Pallas-Athena for beta'ing. I hope you enjoy, and as always, feedback is adored. The life-size hologram was not the most detailed; at the time when the recording had been taken, the technology simply did not allow for color or much visual depth. Nevertheless, the Jedi Council chambers were impressive, the ghostliness of them not impeding its visual impact. There were high arched ceilings and beautifully set stone, marked only by the unadorned seats of the Council. It was a mixture of simplicity and something simply intimidating. Most intriguing were the Jedi Council members themselves, of course, and Ben studied them closely. He stared at the stern visage of his grandfather, stilled in the moment, brooding and calm among the other Jedi. In this static image, Obi-Wan Kenobi looked at Anakin Skywalker from his seat, a reserved expression on his face. Ben knew that, if he let the holographic recording play, he would see that gaze continue, that carefulness that came from a desire to watch and help his former Padawan succeed. Of course, Anakin Skywalker was not on the Council long. He never attained the rank of Master. “Ben?” Ben turned at his father’s soft call, smiling slightly to reassure. Luke studied him for a second, not blithely taking that reassurance. Then his father broke his gaze and walked up to him, regarding Anakin Skywalker as Ben had been. “What do you see when you look at him?” His father spoke distantly, not warmly as he often did when speaking of the man formerly known as Darth Vader. Ben carefully repressed a start, surprised at the question. “A lot of things,” he finally answered. Luke looked at him sideways. “Tragedy, death, darkness? More than a relative, a symbol, perhaps.” “How did you know?” Ben asked quietly, realizing his father had, once again, seen far more deeply than Ben could himself. His father always made him feel younger than he was, almost sixteen now. “I’m not unaware of what he was, of his ... meaning, I suppose you could say,” Luke said, tone thoughtful. “But that’s not all you were thinking of, Ben, that I can sense.” “No,” Ben admitted, returning his gaze to his grandfather. Why did they all have blue eyes? Eyes like that, which could be so dark. “I was thinking about destiny, I guess.” “Yours, or his?” “Both,” Ben said, smiling wryly. “Was he destined to be so different from the Jedi? Was all the comfort they could offer him, at the death around him, was ... people die? It seems so meaningless, Dad, from that point of view. Why save people at all, if this life is not worth something, if it’s not so precious you’d do anything to save it?” “The old Jedi Order was not perfect,” Luke said bluntly. “And neither are we. What mistakes will new generations see in us? Will they judge us?” He paused. “I think they will.” “So do I,” Ben said softly. His father said nothing, and Ben let the silence settle. “Why does this concern you, Ben?” his father asked finally, turning away from the hologram, intently – almost fiercely, like Mom – looking at him. “What’s wrong?” “If you could change it all, would you?” Ben asked, meeting his father’s eyes, exactly like his own. “Would you stop your father from turning at the moment he fell, would you try to save the old Jedi Order?” Luke looked at him for a long, awkward moment, utterly taken aback. “Yes,” he breathed at last. “Then all this would be gone,” Ben said quietly. “Mother. Me.” Clearly not expecting such a painful jab, Luke took a moment to collect his thoughts. “Who is to say which path is better?” “Exactly,” Ben said intensely. “If you changed it, would it be worse? Would the Order stagnant and become worse than that which they fought against, the Sith? Would they echo the Republic in their fall and denigration?” “And what of all the dead?” Luke inquired, folding his hands in his robe. “What of all the dead that would be?” “Do you think it is as predestined as that?” his father asked, saddened. “That everything would be destroyed anyway?” Ben closed his eyes, turning away. “I don’t know. I wonder about my destiny, Dad. If I hear the darkness call, is it for a reason?” A stunned hesitation, then his father grabbed his shoulders, forcing him to face him and open his eyes. “Don’t you ever say that. Never. It’s not true. The darkness always lies, my son.” “That’s right,” Ben whispered, tears in his eyes. “I am your son. So what will happen to me?” His father caressed his face, wiped away the tears that had not yet fallen. “You will live your life. You are not fated to be me, or your grandfather.” He paused, searching for something in Ben, but Ben just looked back at him helplessly. “It is always a choice to turn. The Force moves within those choices, using them so the light always shines again, but it is choice that can bring darkness.” “What if I fall?” Ben’s voice broke. “Don’t,” was what Luke said. He didn’t deny it could happen. “I will always help you. Ben, tell me what’s wrong? What has happened?” “Nothing,” Ben said, shaking his head. “Yet, anyway,” he added with a slip of sarcasm. “If the dark side is calling to you this strongly, there is something in you that is weakening to it,” Luke said quietly, not with any accusation to his tone, but firmly nevertheless. “You were born with great strength in the Force, Ben. I cannot take that from you, I can’t ease that burden. But I can help you. I won’t fail you.” “I’m afraid,” Ben said, lowering his gaze. “Why?” “The friends I’ve lost, the thought of losing you and Mom. It could be any mission, that you ... go,” Ben said with a shrug, like this was normal, something he should be able to deal with. “Like the Jedi of old said, attachment leads to the dark side, right?” “Fear is natural,” Luke said finally. “But you can’t let it control you, guide you. You can’t let your fears dictate how you use the Force, or the rightness of your actions.” He paused. “Your mother and I will be all right. And all considering, if your mother can’t handle whatever happens, what makes you think you or I ever could?” he added with a slightly pained, but mostly genuinely amused smile. Ben choked on a small laugh. “Yeah.” “Have you sensed something specific?” his father asked, and Ben didn’t flinch away from meeting his even gaze this time. “Not exactly. I’ve just been having these really bad dreams,” Ben said, twisting his lip. “Then you can tell me about them, and we will do our best to make sure they aren’t visions of the future,” Luke said firmly. “And we will do it as Jedi,” he added softly. Ben gave him a small smile. “And die as Jedi?” “If that is what happens,” his father simply said. “But Dad, if you die ... I don’t know how I could stop myself from falling to fear and anger. It’s not fair, Dad,” he insisted, rubbing his face, really a way to not see his father’s calm face. “It’s not fair.” “Life is not really fair, Ben,” Luke said, and the words seemed to be almost pulled from him, like a shattering he did not want to be responsible for. “But it has balance. I’ve known peace and contentment as a Jedi, a sense of purpose that I never could have had otherwise. And would I ever have known my father otherwise? Met your mother? Had you?” “I don’t know, I heard your first meeting with Mom didn’t go so great,” Ben quipped. His father laughed. “But it was memorable nevertheless.” Ben just nodded. Not speaking again, Luke gathered Ben into a firm embrace, breathing into his son’s hair, holding him as tightly as he could, and that made Ben want to tremble. But he simply hugged his father back with desperate strength, which gradually faded into something calmer, warmer. He had to trust his father’s wisdom. Though in his father’s embrace he could not see it, Ben sensed his father open his eyes and stare at the stilled face of Obi-Wan Kenobi. [finis] -----signature----- MS Word is designed by sadists with masochists in mind. - teh atty my recent Atton (KOTOR2) fic: http://boards.theforce.net/before_the_saga/b10475/30335989
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DarthIshtar Title: Former CR Registered: Mar '01	Date Posted: 5/24/05 10:39pm Subject: RE: A Symbol, Perhaps (ROTS spoilers, Luke & Ben Skywalker vignette)
	Very interesting. My gut twisted upon seeing that luke would change it all when asked that. But Ben's emotions and fears were very well put. -----signature----- "I feel like a more down-to-earth Pink 5 when I'm writing Leah. Same attitude, less lip gloss." ~Me on how to get in the right mindset for Twilight fanfic.
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Pallas-Athena Title: TFN Fan Fiction Archive Editor Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 5/24/05 10:55pm Subject: RE: A Symbol, Perhaps (ROTS spoilers, Luke & Ben Skywalker vignette)
	Heehee, welcome for the beta. Lovely little vig, connecting one generation and its pains and problems to another. This is the sort of thing I alway want to see more of when reading the EU - introspection on the past and how it relates to the future. “If you could change it all, would you?” Ben asked, meeting his father’s eyes, exactly like his own. “Would you stop your father from turning at the moment he fell, would you try to save the old Jedi Order?” Luke looked at him for a long, awkward moment, utterly taken aback. “Yes,” he breathed at last. I love thins part, as you can probably tell Many of us fan ficcers love to go to that one moment (especially now, after seeing RotS, we know when the exact moment is) and make Anakin not turn and live happily ever after. But happily ever afters rarely happen, and it makes me wonder if the galaxy would have, in fact, been a better place had Anakin not turned “Then all this would be gone,” Ben said quietly. “Mother. Me.” We fan ficcers also seem to think that somethings are destinied to happen - Luke and Mara, Han and Leia, the birth of all the children - but, in actuality, life, death, and even birth occur under the mundane circumstances. The smallest change can altar everything. “Then you can tell me about them, and we will do our best to make sure they aren’t visions of the future,” Luke said firmly. “And we will do it as Jedi,” he added softly. Meh, now if only Obi-Wan had done that for Anakin, we might not be having this problem So, anyway, certainly a very nice break from the A/P RotS AUs and the angst Anakin-turned-Vader vigs, oba -----signature----- Do you ever get bored and find yourself scrolling down a thread just to read the signatures?
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Knight_Aragorn Registered: Jun '03	Date Posted: 5/24/05 11:21pm Subject: RE: A Symbol, Perhaps (ROTS spoilers, Luke & Ben Skywalker vignette)
	Excellent! There's no easy answer for something like that. I really like the way you tapped the issues and emotions in ROTS through the interaction between Luke and Ben. If I hear the darkness call, is it for a reason? This line really struck me. Simple, and somehow very chilling. Particularly if looked at in relation to Anakin and his fall.... I don't like that Ben's been having dreams. It seems very ominous in the context of the story... as though Ben could be facing a journey down the same path as Anakin. Luke's mix of concern and love was very touching, and that vague kind of helplessness he seemed to be feeling. That all he could offer in response to Ben's fear was, If that is what happens... The ending was very interesting. I like the link between Obi-Wan and Luke in the final line. It ties very nicely with the description of Obi-Wan in the opening paragraph -- his concern for Anakin, his desire for Anakin to succeed. Obviously Luke's position isn't all that dissimilar... I have to think about this one. I loved the subtlety of it. Fantastic work!
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lurker2209 Registered: Jan '05	Date Posted: 5/24/05 11:30pm Subject: RE: A Symbol, Perhaps (ROTS spoilers, Luke & Ben Skywalker vignette)
	This was very good. Very deep. Because i think Ben's right, when it comes to the abstract. The Old Jedi Order was collapsing. Rigid and sometimes arrogant, they needed to be reformed. Yoda's thoughts on this in Stover's novelization are wonderful. And maybe without Anakin's action that reform would have never come and the galaxy would have devolved into chaos. Maybe it wouldn't have. But on the personal side, I don't think the possibily of righting the future is ever an excuse for following a dark path. And that's what Luke really conveys to Ben, despite the fact that he doesn't have a satisfactory response to all the abstract questions. And I loved the bit at the end where Luke looked at Obi-Wan's image. Sort of a "how do I guide him through this" and "if you could fail, do I even have a chance?" look. Very good! ~Lurker -----signature----- "When I face the desolate impossibility of writing five hundred pages a sick sense of failure falls on me and I know I can never do it. This happens every time. Then gradually I write one page and then another." ~ John Steinbeck, Travels with Charley
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ithesock Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 5/25/05 1:52am Subject: RE: A Symbol, Perhaps (ROTS spoilers, Luke & Ben Skywalker vignette)
	Whoa. That was brilliant, as usual. I love the way your characters are well-fleshed out. The last line, especially, when Luke looks at Obi-Wan (looking at Anakin)...and wondering what he can do if ...well, if the worst happens. Bravo. -----signature----- Fields of Elysia (JA): http://boards.theforce.net/Before_the_Saga/b10475/20100957/?140 - 10/8 Epistles to a Master (JA, AU): http://boards.theforce.net/Before_the_Saga/b10475/20479680/?25 Lore-Master to Seven
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RedGold Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 5/25/05 7:01am Subject: RE: A Symbol, Perhaps (ROTS spoilers, Luke & Ben Skywalker vignette)
	Excellent as always. I really like how Ben's emotions are in termoil here and nothing has even happened yet! It's the anticipation that kills ya. -----signature----- Legend... Recluse... Forgotten... Will one day return... http://www.starwarsfanfic.com
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Neo-Paladin Registered: Dec '04	Date Posted: 5/25/05 7:33am Subject: RE: A Symbol, Perhaps (ROTS spoilers, Luke & Ben Skywalker vignette)
	You and your titles Yet again, I clicked because the title caught my attention, and then I realized who the author was At any rate, you've got another great fic here. I loved the honesty they had. Neither shied away from difficult answers. That lends this story a lot of power. For some reason this fic also inspired a question within me. Would Padme's fate be unchanged if Anakin hadn't fallen? He foresaw her destiny, and Yoda counseled he reconcile himself to it; we know fighting destiny brought it about. But he didn't see any of his destiny. I wonder if 'the dye was cast,' in regards to Padme by Ep III. -----signature----- Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar. Edward R. Murrow
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ZaraValinor Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 5/25/05 11:23am Subject: RE: A Symbol, Perhaps (ROTS spoilers, Luke & Ben Skywalker vignette)
	You...are...brilliant. The parallels are outstanding and...forget it I'm speechless. -----signature----- Proud Master to Meredith_Kenobi & Lolly_Tolly "He full-on Obi-Wan'd me!" Dean Winchester - Supernatural
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Jedi-2B Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 5/25/05 11:30am Subject: RE: A Symbol, Perhaps (ROTS spoilers, Luke & Ben Skywalker vignette)
	Excellent story, oba. I can see Ben having these doubts when he gets older, and Luke struggling to deal with them. But I don't like that Ben could easily inherit the ability to dream about the future deaths of his loved ones. -----signature----- It was on her fifteenth day in the darkness of the Nirauan cave when Mara Jade awoke to discover a rescuer had finally arrived. It was not, however, any of the potential rescuers she would have expected. It was Luke. ~~And the rest is history~~
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VaderLVR64 Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Feb '04	Date Posted: 5/25/05 11:51am Subject: RE: A Symbol, Perhaps (ROTS spoilers, Luke & Ben Skywalker vignette)
	Beautiful! I've often wondered if I would change certain paths in my life, especially knowing what I know now. And I've wondered if I could have changed something for one of my children especially. This portrayed so many of those conflicting emotions so poignantly. Lovely, as always. -----signature----- R.I.P John, Alex, Jason, and Christian Never forgotten Soldiers' Angels http://soldiersangels.org/ 2114 soldiers waiting for someone to care
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ari_stormset Registered: Apr '05	Date Posted: 5/25/05 11:59am Subject: RE: A Symbol, Perhaps (ROTS spoilers, Luke & Ben Skywalker vignette)
	(chuckles) Should've looked at the author before I read--but this has your fingerprints all over it, obaona, so I guess I didn't need to. Would we change it? Should we change it? My point: I don't think we can. And are human beings so strong that we can understand what we'r doing, what we're losing, and do it anyway? Cold we lose the comfort of the memories we've had, of everything we've ever known? I don't think so--but this worked so well in this viggie that I'm leaving that alone. You portrayed the fear of losing a loved one so well--and hauntingly well, considering that you just went to see RotS. Anakin didn't have the benefit of a real father,and I've wondered since seeing the movie: was that maybe the root of his downfall? Good job once again, oba! I'm jealous all over! Hee. -----signature----- I have never met a person whose greatest need was anything other than real, unconditional love. Rebel of a different sort.
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obaona Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 5/25/05 1:08pm Subject: RE: A Symbol, Perhaps (ROTS spoilers, Luke & Ben Skywalker vignette)
	DarthIshtar: Thank you. I think if Luke thinks that Anakin not falling would make the galaxy better, he couldn't help but reach for it, no matter how painful the consequences. As Mara has said to him, he always wants to save the universe. Pallas-Athena: Thank you again. Aye, I like seeing that too - how the past and future relate to each other, I suppose. And I've always liked to see how the past affects the person they are today - especially Luke. Ben, with his family history, makes for an interesting character despite the fact that he's still a baby in the EU. I'm not so sure the galaxy would have been a better place either, if Anakin hadn't turned, realistically speaking. I think the problems would have been more insidious ( ). Really, in the EU, I think those first years as the New Republic, they were able to avoid the problems of the old one, but they still fell to it again pretty quickly. I think sooner or later, the Jedi were doomed not to have a Senate to serve. I'm glad it was a nice break. For, I guess I don't need to write a vig getting into the characters during ROTS, at least not yet - the movie satisfied me way too much. Knight_Aragorn: I just kept having this conversation in my head about the Jedi, and whether they worth saving. And this is how that eventually came out. Yeah, that line was supposed to be chilling. The dreams, too, were meant to remind you of Anakin's path. That doesn't mean Ben will turn the same way Anakin did, but he has the same temptations. For all that I tried to answer all of Ben's questions through Luke, I really couldn't. I raised questions I couldn't answer myself. The last line was meant to be a punch in the gut, sort of, a reminder of Obi-Wan's position, and of course, "I have failed you." Luke says earlier in this that he won't fail Ben. But in the end, how much of it is up to Luke at all? I'm glad I got you thinking. I live to serve. [face_humble] Thank you! lurker2209: I agree (though I haven't read the novelization yet). That's how I feel about it, but Luke, here, doesn't want to pin it down that closely, that absolutely. The future is always in motion, eh? Yeah, you hit it on the nail - falling to the dark is never excusable. Luke doesn't have all the answers (and neither do I), but he knows that. And you really got the last line there, too. Since it's from Ben's perspective, it's hard to say what Luke is thinking at that moment, but considering all we know of ROTS and Anakin's fall, it's easy to see all the disturbing parallels. I'm glad you liked this. Thank you! ithesock: Thank you. And personally, I don't think Luke could do it. Obi-Wan could comfort himself that Anakin was dead, Vader was not Anakin. But Luke knows that some small part of the original person can remain in a monster, because that's what happened with Anakin. So how could he ever strike Ben down, knowing that there might be hope? Thanks again. RedGold: Nah, it's all the foreboding parallels. Thank you. Neo-Paladin: Really? How intriguing. I have to say, I had a lot of problems with the difficult questions and answers. Luke's inability to answer Ben's questions comes from my own inability. So I just tried to reach as far as I could to the truth of the issue. You know, I had the same question after I saw ROTS. I don't think the dye was cast - I think that when he was having those visions, he was already going down the path to the dark side. He never realized the cause of the dreams, the thing happening now that was making him see those things. He never went to the cause, he just wanted to stop the effect - and he couldn't. I think. Thank you for the thoughtful reply. Got me thinking here, now. ZaraValinor: Thank you! :D I'm pleased I made you speechless. Jedi-2B: Thank you. :D Yeah, it's a disturbing thought. But in my mind, Ben has always been a throwback to his grandfather. I don't know why, but he always has. VaderLVR64: I think it's something everyone wonders, especially as time (and life) goes on. But would it be worse or better? Yeah. Who knows? I'm glad you liked. Thank you. ari_stormset: Indeed? I wonder if I had posted this under a sock, you would have known. I'm not sure I agree with you - I don't know about that. Because if you did change it, you would know that you would change yourself - how can you miss memories you never knew? And people can do amazingly sacrificial things sometimes. For me, it's more the question of that uncertainty - will this make things better? It's weird, but I think in some ways Obi-Wan distanced himself from Anakin, trying not to be his father-figure, just his mentor, like an older brother. In ROTS that is very clearly seen - the brotherly relationship they have. But ... a parent never stops being a parent, and I wonder, did Anakin need a parent longer than Obi-Wan thought he did? That always worry, guiding, etc. Hm. Thank you. :D But pbbt that you're jealous. -----signature----- MS Word is designed by sadists with masochists in mind. - teh atty my recent Atton (KOTOR2) fic: http://boards.theforce.net/before_the_saga/b10475/30335989
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Neo-Paladin Registered: Dec '04	Date Posted: 5/25/05 7:37pm Subject: RE: A Symbol, Perhaps (ROTS spoilers, Luke & Ben Skywalker vignette)
	Well, I have to say, if you didn't have problems with the answers they wouldn't be difficult questions. I'm willing to say many of them were questions without answers, at least without definitive answers. You still did a beautiful job with them. I came to the conclusion that the dye was cast in regards to Padme. It all reaches back to Greek mythology, where once Fate had decided no one could change it (with the lone exception of Zeus). That's the thing with prophesy, it rarely brought anything but anguish, more so when you fought it; there was no changing it. I think that was the mythology Lucas was drawing upon there. If you ever find your self in mythology stay as far away from any prophet as possible! Now I think Anakin might have been able to change what the prophesy meant. Like perhaps she might have died in child birth, but been revived (those Jedi healers are pretty slick ya' know). However he fought it, and not only did it come to pass anyway, but in the most awful realization of the prophesy. -----signature----- Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar. Edward R. Murrow
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_Jedi_of_Destiny_ Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 5/25/05 8:03pm Subject: RE: A Symbol, Perhaps (ROTS spoilers, Luke & Ben Skywalker vignette)
	“But it was memorable nevertheless.” Too true. She does make an impression on everyone, doesn't she? A nice little viggie with Ben and Luke about destiny. That part about how Luke would change it all if he could--could that just be a need to see, and get to know his father more? A selfish desire, perhaps? Though if that were true, he'd probably opt to keep things how they were so he could hold onto Mara and Ben. Loved that piece. Thank you for writing it. -----signature----- "I know what I am--a fighter, the sister and daugher of heroes." Jaina Solo FADA Custodian? Many Paths to Tread: http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=20457154&replies=0
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Jedi_Tigris Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 5/26/05 1:05am Subject: RE: A Symbol, Perhaps (ROTS spoilers, Luke & Ben Skywalker vignette)
	Wow! Very deep, and thought provoking. otherwise incoherent right now -----signature----- "Who is more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-Wan Kenobi, ANH padawan/adoptee of Myri_Antilles Battling DRL...otherwise known as college and work... Please add me to your pm list when I review. Thanks!
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