Jedi Council Forums - Friends No More [Jag and Shawnkyr] - COMPLETE

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Author	Topic: Friends No More [Jag and Shawnkyr] - COMPLETE - Replies, 2/13/05!!!
WynssaStarflare Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 10/28/05 9:04am Subject: RE: Friends No More (Jag and Shawnkyr) - New Update - 10/28!!
	Poor Jag. What a horrible situation. Definately between a rock and a hard place. For the interspecies relationships, I've never thought they were that big of deal. I actually see the Jag/Shawnkyr thing as very believable, because they are so alike. But then being with someone who is exactly like you isn't always a good thing. Great post! I really am looking forward to seeing who he ends up with. -----signature----- Finally free!!! Now only to find employment....
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Jaya Solo Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 10/28/05 12:16pm Subject: RE: Friends No More (Jag and Shawnkyr) - New Update - 10/28!!
	I think writers are rarely able get out of being a human because we are humans. We tend to give our characters parts of what we know, so it's not just that we make our characters all have human characteristics but that we give them aspects of our culture. In some cultures, it's not proper to be so open about love and so on. In other cultures they are more open and accepting of different lifestyles. I think you're able to see the world that they are from which makes you be able to express their culture and turn that into how characters act. You see the entire picture. I think that's what great writers do: they have an entire world planned out in their mind and they have their characters all thought out. That's what you're doing. Great job! -----signature----- Padawans: DreamingIce, LostJedi26 Restoring Order: http://boards.theforce.net/the_saga/b10476/24000645 Green Eyes 4: http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=24195159 Palpatine's Blog: http://boards.theforce.net/the_saga/b10476/25399668
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Inara Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 10/28/05 3:15pm Subject: RE: Friends No More (Jag and Shawnkyr) - New Update - 10/28!! - Date Edited: 10/28/05 3:24pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Inara
	ADDENDUM TO AUTHOR NOTES: First off, I want to thank you guys for the very kind reviews and for taking the time to answer my questions. I'll wait until I post the next chapter before I respond to your answers, but I'm really glad that I understand what you guys are all saying, and I agree with all of you to in certain ways. I just want to make a quick note before I continue with replies. Though it seems like it, this story isn't so much about romance as it is about Jag and Shawnkyr themselves, and the journey of self-discovery they undergo. What is happening to them is more than mere attraction. They are facing racial boundaries, cultural taboos, and familial expectations - all of which are affecting their decisions. For them, the question of sleeping together isn't just a matter of if they should or not. It's also a matter of how others will perceive them, and of how they will feel about it afterwards. Think of it as US racial issues from thirty years ago. Jag and Shawnkyr, even if they wanted to get together, would have to face the scorn and perhaps even hatred of the Chiss. And remember, in the Ascendancy, Jag is the alien. So whatever he might suffer, Shawnkyr will suffer a lot more since it will be her own people who will ostracize her. So whatever risks that Jag is taking, Shawnkyr is risking even more - and all because she genuinely cares for Jag. This is a level of devotion that Jag has never received from Jaina (in profic), unfortunately. I'm not saying that Jaina is right or wrong, because her reasons for leaving Jag may very well be sound, but Jag doesn't know that. All he knows is that Jaina separated from him and became a Joiner - the one thing that his people hate with a passion. So Jag's own perception of his situation is very skewed. But he also knows that Shawnkyr is not human and can never be human for him, something he realized he needs after being with Jaina. The decisions that Jag and Shawnkyr will have to make will be difficult. Thanks for sticking with this so far! Now on to replies... -----signature----- "The Sun Crusher was originally conceived as a humane alternative to Kyle Katarn." http://www.thedarknest.com Dark!Horny!Jacen 1 6177 86515
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Inara Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 10/28/05 3:17pm Subject: RE: Friends No More (Jag and Shawnkyr) - New Update - 10/28!!
	JediTristan: What I liked best about this post was, of course, how organic everyone was. Jagged was ansgty, human, and self-sacrificng, Athan was his bad alien self, and poor Shawnie is very courageous. I never doubted them, though, and that's extremely important (and underrated. Doubt in a character takes time, after all, but it's kind of obvious in the beginning when something is, oh GASP cardboard). Thanks! I really wanted to make everyone in this fic accessible and understandable in their thoughts and motives. I didn't want Athan to be cardboard because regardless of how he expresses himself, he still has feelings and can be hurt. Jag and Kyrn also - I don't want them to seem weird. It's okay to disagree with what they're doing and not like them because of it, or conversely, adore them for it, but I don't want them to arouse only apathy. So no cardboard allowed in my stories!! Yay for you, and I"M SORRY TO KEEP YOU UP SO FREAKING LATE!!! I will be suffering for it for the remainder of the day, I'm sure. Chimpo_the_Sith: So she invited him... Well we shall see what will happen next... Soon! Silya-Nuruodo: Hi, CG!! I'm sure Shawnkyr will see that it's not so bad, on the contrary!! Pretty courageous for a Chiss to dare doing such a thing, though - perhaps she'll change some of her people's minds? You're definitely right here - a human/Chiss couple would create quite a stir on Csilla, and the repercussions would be serious. But who knows - perhaps the Chiss will grow more open minded if something does happen. Already, Shawnkyr's friendship with Jag is raising eyebrows... And Athan - who is Athan, anyway? She'll forget him very quickly once Jag is hers!! Poor Athan. It's always the other guy who finds himself being shafted. Gloria: And I loved Athan's questions about his perceptions of human behavior. laugh love grin. Thanks! He's just being honest here, and for him and the Chiss, Jag is the alien. Horrible habit - must break it. Yes, you must! We miss you, Gloria! Plus, I hardly see you on the lit forum either. Lola64: Someone ought to tell Shawnkyr that hibitydibity with a friend half the time ends a friendship anyway. So there's no need to do it just to keep the friendship. But who is going to tell her? The only humans that could help her are also intimately connected to the problem. And the Chiss have no understanding of the complexity and often contradictory ways of human behavior. She might think she's solving a problem, but she doesn't see that she may create a bigger one. And she also expects Jag to view her solution logically, but in this case, he's being very human and will respond accordingly. WynssaStarflare: What a horrible situation. Definately between a rock and a hard place. Indeed. He needs Shawnkyr, but his need could land him deeper. This madness for Shawnkyr is really keeping him from viewing things objectively. Jaya Solo: Thank you, Master. That means a lot coming from you. I think writers are rarely able get out of being a human because we are humans. We tend to give our characters parts of what we know, so it's not just that we make our characters all have human characteristics but that we give them aspects of our culture. Truer words have never been spoken. Shawnkyr's very alienness in this situation is warranted, and though we think she is acting stupidly, to her, it is a reasonable solution, one that would work with her own kind. And Jag, though he's spent an entire lifetime with the Chiss, doesn't know how they deal with romance, and he will be caught between human and Chiss behavior. -----signature----- "The Sun Crusher was originally conceived as a humane alternative to Kyle Katarn." http://www.thedarknest.com Dark!Horny!Jacen 1 6177 86515
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summerdaisy Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 10/28/05 3:51pm Subject: RE: Friends No More (Jag and Shawnkyr) - New Update plus an ADDED author note - 10/28!! - Date Edited: 10/28/05 4:04pm (1 edits total) Edited By: summerdaisy
	Sorry for the sporadicness of my replies, but med school is evil. I LOVED this chapter. Everytihng was building up perfectly. It's great how there is no bad person here - you made me feel badly for all of them, and though its not possible, I want all the characters to be happy, Shawnkyr, Jag, and Athan. I also like how this entire story is told from the Chiss POV and not the Alliance. It's a refreshing look into the other side. The emotions and interactions between Shawnkyr and Jag are entirely believable, and I don't doubt for a second their pain. Congrats, Inara. All your stories are thought provoking, but I think this one goes where few stories go. You've bravely waded into racial politics, and so far, everything you've said or explained is extremely plausible. EDIT: Bad grammar You put profic authors to shame, my dear, and you remind me again why fan fiction is so fun to read.
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Inara Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 10/28/05 6:50pm Subject: RE: Friends No More (Jag and Shawnkyr) - New Update plus an ADDED author note - 10/28!!
	I want all the characters to be happy, Shawnkyr, Jag, and Athan. Me too. I'm fond of all my characters now, even Athan and Thevan. I also like how this entire story is told from the Chiss POV and not the Alliance. It's a refreshing look into the other side. This was really important for me because the Chiss are so adamant about their position in the Dark Nest books, so I wanted delve into their realm. And this the story does take place in the Ascendancy... Glad to have you back, Summer! I hope med school hasn't been that bad. -----signature----- "The Sun Crusher was originally conceived as a humane alternative to Kyle Katarn." http://www.thedarknest.com Dark!Horny!Jacen 1 6177 86515
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summerdaisy Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 10/28/05 8:49pm Subject: RE: Friends No More (Jag and Shawnkyr) - New Update plus an ADDED author note - 10/28!!
	Inara posted: Me too. I'm fond of all my characters now, even Athan and Thevan. raises hand I nominate myself to take care of Athan. He can cry on my shoulder while Jag and Shawnkyr get it on. No matter how stoic Athan is, he has an organ in his body that was broketh, the organ that controlith the flow of his vital fluids. I think he means his tear ducts. Inara posted: Glad to have you back, Summer! I hope med school hasn't been that bad. I had exams all week. Believe me, you were smart to take a year off before grad school. And tomorrow is such a nice Saturday, and I have to spend it in anatomy lab with a cadaver.
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Csillan_girl Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 10/29/05 5:36am Subject: RE: Friends No More (Jag and Shawnkyr) - New Update plus an ADDED author note - 10/28!!
	Despite all the difficulties, I still hope that Jag and Shawnkyr end up together. (yeah, I love happy-ends... ) You write them so great together, Inara, you just have to make them happy!! -----signature----- We're professionals. Don't try this at home. crazy, sexy, marvellous. Shadow Sith Army - Master, retired "Ensalada mista, Baby!!" ~ Rock Pelly: My Gartenzwerg pwns your Laaf!
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Master_Jaina1011 Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 10/29/05 7:55am Subject: RE: Friends No More (Jag and Shawnkyr) - New Update plus an ADDED author note - 10/28!!
	I personally am a J/J fan but i read all kinds of stuff. Jaina/OC.. I'm usually up for everything and i think this is really awesome. I like the way you portray chiss culture and it makes me understand them. Shawknyr and Jag are really not that far off. Just keep up the good work... I enjoty reading this story! -----signature----- “Don’t try too hard, women change the rules and no matter how hard you try you will always be on the losing team. Just get used to it son, it’s the price of love.” Echoes of the Past by TkeiraLea I am Myself. No one Else.
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RenegadeEwok Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 10/29/05 10:40am Subject: RE: Friends No More (Jag and Shawnkyr) - New Update plus an ADDED author note - 10/28!!
	Wow...your portrayal of the Chiss is near flawless, given the ambiguity of their race. And what's more is that you're actually making me warm up to Jag. Though I've always found the Chiss themselves fascinating, Jag has, to me, seemed like a tarnish to their name...being so flat and, well, cardboard-esque. I like how you give him dimensions and depth. If they'd done that in NJO, I'm sure I would've been much more accepting of him as a character. I guess a good portion of my dislike comes from me being a J/Z shipper...guilty, but even I find Zekk a bit too practical and simple at times. The DN series has cultivated Zekk, but it hasn't done much for Jag. But, I proudly ship J/S now. An even smaller(?) one than J/Z.
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Inara Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 10/29/05 2:37pm Subject: RE: Friends No More (Jag and Shawnkyr) - New Update plus an ADDED author note - 10/28!!
	Csillan_girl: I still hope that Jag and Shawnkyr end up together. (yeah, I love happy-ends...) Well... You write them so great together, Inara Thank you! Master_Jaina1011: I like the way you portray chiss culture and it makes me understand them. Well then, Mission accomplished! Shawknyr and Jag are really not that far off. Thanks! Characterization is important to me, and I'm glad I've managed to keep them in character. RenegadeEwok: New reader!!!! Welcome! And what's more is that you're actually making me warm up to Jag. Though I've always found the Chiss themselves fascinating, Jag has, to me, seemed like a tarnish to their name...being so flat and, well, cardboard-esque. I like how you give him dimensions and depth. If they'd done that in NJO, I'm sure I would've been much more accepting of him as a character. I hate Captain Cardboard, and I hate wishy-washy Jag, which he sometimes slipped into in NJO. Being the son of Soontir Fel, the coolest Imperial ever, and Syal Antilles, the hottest holostar ever, as well as being the nephew of Wedge Antilles, the coolest pilot ever...there is no room for cardboard genes in that family!!! Seriously, Jag is a character with a lot of potential, and though Jaina brought out a lot of his good qualities, what makes me sad is the idea that only Jaina can bring out those qualities. It doesn't strike me as accurate. That's why I wanted to build him as having depth with his friends and family - while still being stiff and grim to outsiders, of course. I guess a good portion of my dislike comes from me being a J/Z shipper...guilty, but even I find Zekk a bit too practical and simple at times. The DN series has cultivated Zekk, but it hasn't done much for Jag. I like Zekk too, and I like the fact that Denning is allowing some of his personality to slip through. Because let's all be honest here, even without the meld, Jaina's always dominated that pair. So I hope Zekk starts to establish himself in TSW - and isn't killed off. As for Jaina ships, I think they can all work out some way or another...and that applies to Jag too. But, I proudly ship J/S now. An even smaller(?) one than J/Z. -----signature----- "The Sun Crusher was originally conceived as a humane alternative to Kyle Katarn." http://www.thedarknest.com Dark!Horny!Jacen 1 6177 86515
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RenegadeEwok Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 10/29/05 3:08pm Subject: RE: Friends No More (Jag and Shawnkyr) - New Update plus an ADDED author note - 10/28!! - Date Edited: 10/29/05 3:10pm (2 edits total) Edited By: RenegadeEwok
	there is no room for cardboard genes in that family!!! Don't worry, we still have Cem to fall back on! Seriously, Jag is a character with a lot of potential, and though Jaina brought out a lot of his good qualities, what makes me sad is the idea that only Jaina can bring out those qualities. Which is precisely why I do not ship J/J. I'd prefer to see Jag establish himself on his own terms and have a stand alone in LotF. I have mentioned countless times in other threads that he is a character with a large reservoir of latent talent. Whether the authors attempt to tap into it...presents itself as a separate issue... It doesn't strike me as accurate. That's why I wanted to build him as having depth with his friends and family - while still being stiff and grim to outsiders, of course. Of course. I never minded the grimness. I enjoyed the grimness...but unfortunately grimness without depth tastes like cardboard. On another note, despite the fact that I ship J/S at the moment...I'm hoping it'll end S/A. Call me quirky, but gritty endings always get to me more than surreal ones. Besides, Athan's one cool cat. I dare say I'm getting attached. I picture him like so: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/Myrmidon/Athan.jpg
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Gloria Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 10/29/05 6:00pm Subject: RE: Friends No More (Jag and Shawnkyr) - New Update plus an ADDED author note - 10/28!!
	Yes, you must! We miss you, Gloria! Plus, I hardly see you on the lit forum either. sad I know, I'm sorry. But I assure you, as soon as Swarm War thread starts, you won't be able to get rid of me. RenegadeEwok - Great pic. -----signature----- "And when the Chiss grew suspicious, they killed things."
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RenegadeEwok Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 10/29/05 7:22pm Subject: RE: Friends No More (Jag and Shawnkyr) - New Update plus an ADDED author note - 10/28!!
	Thank you Least that wipes out the fear of using Mr. McCrazyPants as the subject of the ava.
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Inara Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 10/29/05 8:36pm Subject: RE: Friends No More (Jag and Shawnkyr) - New Update plus an ADDED author note - 10/28!! - Date Edited: 10/29/05 8:46pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Inara
	Gloria: I too am eagerly waiting for T2Q to sticky the TSW thread... RenegadeEwok: Don't worry, we still have Cem to fall back on! Cem is quite the man. It's getting to the point where I like Cem better than most other characters - though technically, he's only a name in profic. I have mentioned countless times in other threads that he is a character with a large reservoir of latent talent. Whether the authors attempt to tap into it...presents itself as a separate issue... I totally agree. I think it'd be great if they had a series of novels or comics like they do for Han, Lando, Wedge, and Soontir. Call me quirky, but gritty endings always get to me more than surreal ones. Besides, Athan's one cool cat. I dare say I'm getting attached. Me too! Athan's such a good guy. There really are not antagonists in this story, unless one counts the Killiks. And I LOVE THE PICTURE!!!! Did you make it yourself? Damn, Kyrn is lucky if she has got all these hot guys to choose from...A very pleasant dilemma. Since we're sharing pictures, this is how I see Cem: -----signature----- "The Sun Crusher was originally conceived as a humane alternative to Kyle Katarn." http://www.thedarknest.com Dark!Horny!Jacen 1 6177 86515
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