Discussion in 'Literature' started by sabarte, May 12, 2008.
I know it is. That is why I said "I think".
Guys, this line of conversation never gets anywhere.
Person A: TCW never does X.
Person B: They did X that one time.
Person A: That's your opinion.
Conclusion: A and B disagree with each other.
Hondo and Bane were actually two characters I had in mind when I made that comment. TCW is a kid's show, and deserves some leeway, but even compared with some of its peers, I feel characterization is not its strong point (much like the prequels). I'm down on TCW a lot, but I do enjoy quite a few aspects of it.
Hondo is not someone I can fully judge, as I have not seen the latest episodes featuring him, which has won him some acclaim... in all prior appearances, though, I have trouble seeing him as anything more than a shallowly written rogue-with-a-heart-of-gold (though the writers never really struck the balance necessary to make those types of characters work reliably).
Bane, though, is the epitome of my problem with TCW's original characters, in that he's nothing but a caricature. Even after a half-dozen appearances, he barely has more personality than Boba Fett from Return of the Jedi. He's a character with little purpose beyond selling action figures. As I've mentioned, this is a kids show, so I'm not expecting three dimensional characterization from the villains of all people, but it does help if the villains have at least some presence or charisma. Bane has the charisma of a wet dish cloth.
I could quite easily forgive the fact that Bane is created to fit snugly into a set archetype if he was written to be more, to take the somewhat tired space cowboy and make it interesting, but the writers of TCW are content with him being an exceedingly bland villain of the week.
To be quite honest, I had to look Riyo Chuchi up. I seem to recall her now, but I honestly can't remember anything memorable about her character, so I'll refrain from commenting more on her.
I said interesting, not memorable . Bane is memorable simply for being a cowboy in Star Wars... though he doesn't bring much to the table beyond that.
I kind of want to give you Rex, and I have to give them credit for making an attempt to differentiate the clones, though I feel that's something they get very mixed results on. Rex seems to have a distinct personality, if nothing else due to his sheer presence on the show, but I've never truly felt anything for any particular clone, after the first season episode Rookies. Embo embodies my rant on Bane to an even greater extent, but he gets away with it for essentially being a background character. Talzin is the last one I'm tempted to acknowledge. Sure, she's just a witch in space, but I think the important area where she differs from Bane is that she's fairly interesting and mysterious, where Bane's depth ends at his rocket boots.
Now, I don't think TCW is all bad with characterization. They aren't bad at all when it comes to characterizing existing characters. I feel they do a good job with Obi-Wan's personality, and I actually love Anakin's optimistic personality change. I've always felt that he should have some Han Solo esque swashbuckling hero traits about him. Believe it or not, I also feel they've nailed Maul, even if Savage is largely a disappointment. They captured Chewie well, and actually, in my opinion, made Aurra Sing more likable.
You do have a good point on TCW not always relying on the White Human Male (and the one prominent original White Human Male TCW original I can think of, Lux, is easily one of the most shallow and ill conceived characters of the show, in my opinion). That said, I do think their diversity owes much to the visual medium; it's actually a benefit to make characters alien, because it will likely lead to a more memorable image (once again, Bane). And besides, I don't feel the (alien) diversity means a whole lot in the long run if the characters themselves are rather boring.
Well, if you wanted, you could boil almost any internet debate/argument/pissing contest to that formula. Doesn't make it less fun/necessary to more thoroughly outline the steps involved, as long as both sides are willing to elaborate a bit.
Person C[ooper] posts the above.
Dear me, I've become predictable.
Sure, TCW often looks great, but for the nuanced story I'll take the Jabiim comics and Labyrinth of Evil over Umbara or Heroes on Both Sides, thanks very much.
I continue to think that TCW and the rest of the Clone Wars stuff can coexist peacefully. I'm far from TCW's biggest fan, and I do feel they sometimes appear almost flippant and disrespectful in the way they casually contradict pretty large things (like character deaths), but overall I feel TCW adds more than it takes away. If nothing else, Star Wars is extremely well suited to the animation medium.
I think the most annoying thing is that TCW could be awesome, but is content to be merely good sometimes, fairly bad other times. And by "awesome", I don't even mean following canon; I mean the formula of the show as is offers so much more potential than what's being taken advantage of. Of course, this is the part where I say I haven't seen the last few episodes, so for all I know it's the greatest thing since the creation of fire.
It could, but TCW's flouting itself as the story of the Clone Wars is rather annoying. (See: the Mon Calamari and Kamino rehashs of the older pre-RotS EU)
The Separatist Parliament, the use of Z-95s and Y-Wings, and the use of EU planets such as Onderon certainly are steps in the right direction at expanding the canon of the conflict for the better, killing Piell and Gallia isn't. I'm cynically hopeful about this show, if that's possible; I don't downright hate it like some others.
Exactly, it's like the TCW writers can't make up their minds on whether or not to acknowledge the EU. At this point, it's certainly possible to make all the Clone Wars stories go together. In the future, however, I hope the show's creators decide to either respect the EU or leave it alone entirely.
Well, that is a function of the medium. Novels can take longer to explore the story, while comics you can take the time to appreciate the fine details if you so desire. Clone Wars is a visual show with 22 minutes to cover the plot (if not the entire story, that is what multiparters are for)
My problem with TCW is I am perfectly happy with the multimedia project timeline, to the point that it is the Clone Wars to me. The way I see that isn't a function of the medium, its a function of George Lucas and LFL doing whatever the heck they want to do because apparently they can.
I still do not get why the Clone Captain serving Anakin was called 'Rex'.
-) It should have been Alpha! I know Lucas and Filoni did not like that too many names beginning with an 'a', but still...
-) 'rex' is a reference to a dinosaur. Do dinosaurs even exist in SW???
Yeah, I estimate we've got like maybe a couple minutes max before the Lit Latin Linguists pounce on this thread.
I don't even know Latin and I sighed at that one.
I'll let the, er, Lit Latin Linguists deal with the main issue here, but the answer to the question is yes. One of L. Niel Smith's less strange additions to the universe.
Yes they exist, and they're smart.
Seriously, they open and close doors like nobody's business.
Rex, regis (m): means "King" in Latin.
@ to it
"So, what, does that mean there's Latin in Star Wars? Suspension of disbelief, much?"
Unless, of course, they are using the windows.
Jello pulled some strings with JSarek when he wrote that article, clearly
They also build and use ray guns! Mankind is doomed.
Well, you can't pin it entirely on me. jSarek did say he had me in mind when he wrote that part of the article, but there's actually a long-standing basis for why it makes perfect sense to match up High Galactic and Latin and though I've persisted on that point over the years, I'm not the only one to have seen it.
We see Latin in Star Wars all the time -- Imperator-class, anyone? Let's not even get started on the Procurator and Quaestor class ships either. And it's not just the Saxtonites, Stackpole referred to an ISD Imperator in Wedge's Gamble, and a little thing called ROTS introduced the Venator class. These are all Latin words.
Moreover, there's a lot of pseudo-Latin out there -- Pliada di am Imperium is one of them, but they're everywhere (Dan Wallace used some in the Atlas rather recently, intending it to be High Galactic). Given the similarities between High Galactic and Latin (a prestige language of the Imperial Court and used for formal Republican terms in its secular variation, and used to describe Jedi techniques in its ecclesiastic variation), I decided that High Galactic not only ought to be an analogue of Latin (which I think was always intended, even as far back as Marvel), but it could cover the usage of Latin itself within the GFFA. That's not to say that they're one and the same -- there's a lot of pseudo-Latin that's also High Galactic, and some things (e.g., cho mai) aren't even Latinate in general. It shouldn't be treated as a 1:1 conversion (compare HG fi with Latin filius. for instance) but an analog.
As an added bonus, we get nice little things like Adumari archaic basic perator resembles both Latin/HG imperator (emperor) and HG pera (father).
@ not only agreed with me and made the similarities canon(for which I am eternally grateful), but he went the added step and explained that the usage of the Latin alphabet in SW is essentially transliterating Basic words into the HG alphabet for prestige purposes. It was a nice touch and one I hadn't thought of.
P.S. if you haven't read his "The Written Word" article yet, you're seriously missing out -- HG is just one small part of a very excellent article.
Best part of that image? The sound effect.
I dunno, I rather like the Visas Marr cosplay that the dino is doing. Surely it'll fool everyone into thinking he's a Miraluka.