Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. instantdeath Force Ghost

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    Jul 22, 2010
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    I think it's less wanting to make relatable characters, and more an author doesn't want to take time and describe what every background character looks like. Sure, it can add atmosphere, but it's all too easy to slow the plot to a crawl that way. Of course, that's sort of bypassed in Star Wars, where most authors can get away with saying, "a Chagrian, a Nautolan, and a Selkath walked into a bar" without having to explain what any of them look like, since most SW books seem to be written with the assumption that you have wookiepedia at your disposal (this is both a good and bad thing in different ways)
  2. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

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    May 10, 2004
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    true but Kyp comforted her after Mikos loss I bet ;)
  3. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 12, 2012
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    Its alot more proof than the Derek is Kyle's kid cause they were both on the Millenium Falcon at the same time...
  4. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    MY THREAD IS IN YOUR BRAIN MUAHAHA
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  5. The_Forgotten_Jedi Jedi Grand Master

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    May 12, 2010
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    Gender wise though, doesn't the current council beat the movies? We have six female Jedi Masters to five male Jedi Masters. Three of those female Masters are non-human, and one is possibly non-white (Octa). So if they do the movie in that time period, they have the female half of the council pretty diverse.

    Still, that does leave at least seven white humans, and changing any of their skin colors won't really work. I guess Corran could screw up some hair dye again and turn green permanently, but that seems like cheating. What would be better: adding a non-white human male, or a alien male to the council? Up to this point, we haven't seen either option on the New Jedi Order's council (except for K'Kruhk, but he doesn't really factor into this, unless he's the one that gets added), so either one would be a step in the right direction. Still doesn't solve the orders Order's WHM problem overall though.

    Kyris proposed cleaning house a bit. That I'm mostly opposed to. The characters we have need to be fleshed out. Barratk'l may not have done much yet, but what we've seen of her shows serious potential. Kyp going down in a blaze of glory doesn't really fit the character he's evolved into. If he dies, I hope it's to save just one persons life with nothing big at stake. The Solusar's... yeah they can go. Most of the meetings they attend are by holoprojector anyway (although with the Jedi relocated to Shedu Maad, that would not be the case anymore) and they work better as the head of the Jedi Academy, not as council members. So that would leave three slots open. I would personally add two non-white human males and one alien male. If there is just one non-white human, he would get saddled with being the token Windu character.

    Of course, I think the chances of the EU being used to this extent are close to zero, so it's a bit of a moot point for the movies.
    Last edited by The_Forgotten_Jedi, Dec 17, 2012
  6. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 12, 2012
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    I would LOVE to include the council as it is, but that doesn't exactly fit with what the films will probably do. That being said, For the Solusars and the empty seat, i would suggest any three aliens... Maybe Lowie, Izal Waz, and random new alien... I guess I shouldnt be upset with Brakkt'yl, she is a step in the right direction. I feel like there should be a bothan on the council somewhere too...
  7. The_Forgotten_Jedi Jedi Grand Master

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    May 12, 2010
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    Lowie would be cool. Since Jaina's on there it sets a precedent for Jedi of that generation to join. Izal Waz is by far my favorite underused Jedi, but I don't think he would be a great fit on the council. A Bothan would be interesting, considering how vastly important they have been to the EU. The NJO does have four or five Bothan Jedi Knights running around already, but I believe they are all too young to be Masters yet. When it comes to adding a non-white human male, they would have to create a whole new character. Makre Medjev is the only one currently in existance, and he's the head of the Jedi Archives, and I think the two roles should be seperate. Plus the NJO badly needs some non-white characters. I'd set aside my wish for older characters to be used instead of new ones being created for that.
  8. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 12, 2012
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    I agree completely, however I would rather they look long term and explain that Kunor Bann as a Korun (Mace Windu's planet of origin). Give his some page time then lead him to the council in time...

    Valin will replace Corran someday
    Tesar will replace Saba
    Ben will sit on the council then replace his father...
    Lowie will sit on the council someday
    Tahiri probably will too
    Tekli will replace Clighal someday
    Start grooming Yanthar or Kolir for the seats...

    Future Council...
    1. Jaina Solo Fel (Confirmed)
    2. Ben Skywalker (It's gonna happen)
    3. Lowbacca (It's gonna happen)
    4. Tesar Sebatyne (It's gonna happen)
    5. Tahiri Veila (It should happen)
    6. Tekli (It's gonna happen)
    7. Valin Horn (It should happen)
    8. Kolir Hu'lya (Probably won't happen)
    9. Tiu Zax (Probably won't happen)
    10. Marr Idi-Shael (Probably won't happen)
    Plus two more aliens...
    On this council we have two human males, and two human females, (I'd throw Zekk on there, but I think he is staying in Hapan space for good).
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  9. The_Forgotten_Jedi Jedi Grand Master

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    Yeah, Zekk will be staying in Hapan space for sure, likely in a Jedi Watchman kind of role. I would throw out Tiu Zax from that list and add Raynar Thul though. It's pretty much a foregone conclusion he will be on the council at some point, and Zax hasn't been mentioned once since she was introduced as a very minor character. Sothais Saar would be a great character to continue developing towards a council seat as well.
  10. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    I actually had that exact same thought while walking around the Sith Academy.

    If I'd just been playing KOTOR, I doubt I'd have even thought about it, but having read people discussing diversity in TOR just a few days ago, it was on my mind and so is now bugging me as I try to get into the game at long last. :p
  11. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I can agree with Sothais Saar... He does have alot of potential... Would love a book with him and Avinoam Arelis fighting slavers... That being said, Saar would fit on the "Future Council"... Ok, ill sub Zax for Saar...

    Thul isn't officially back, Luke sent someone to bring him back, until he is back he is still ThrutThul (ugh). You are right however that he has been redeemed... I for one would love for him to start helping in the training of younglings... He would be a great understudy for the Solusars...
  12. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Can we please call them "Sith lackeys" instead of "the Empire"? 'cause, you know, they're not.
  13. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 12, 2012
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    Lol, if anyone wants to help out my Jedi knight, I am stuck to the point of spending and using all my med packs... Oh No...
  14. instantdeath Force Ghost

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    Jul 22, 2010
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    Can we call them the empire? Y'know, with a lowercase.
  15. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    That's fine. "Sith Empire" is also acceptable (and has a long basis in canon). It's just "Empire" and "Imperials" on their lonesome that irks me.
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  16. Esg Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    Isn't that what most of their Empires are?
  17. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Basically, yes. I can't stand Sith.
  18. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 12, 2012
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    On the note of Imperial Bias... Let's talk about the Imperial Knights in Legacy... It makes sense that most of them would be human, but there is that one Ikotchi... Not to mention we have a Chiss Moff in Legacy... Let's see the Ascendancy join the Empire some time soon
  19. Esg Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    No I mean most Empires in SW in general [face_batting]
  20. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    It is interesting that Legacy-era stormtroopers have displayed more diversity than the Imperial Knights thus far.
  21. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Yes, I know what you meant. I'm very good at responding only to what I want to respond to. Long experience in propaga--errr, truth-telling.

    Well, we know the Remnant had been trying to diversify its stormtrooper corps as early as SQ -- so it would make sense that they'd try to carry on further. I don't know, though, what they'd have to work with aside from the species who were already there, as I can't imagine any aliens saying "hey let's emigrate to the Remnant!"

    Things may have changed after the Remnant's expansion post-NJO and the Second Empire's presumed further expansion, but who knows.
  22. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

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    Nov 19, 2007
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    I like "Empire." It reinforces how completely and utterly absurd the whole thing is, from the Star Destroyers to the Grand Moffs.
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  23. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    "The Disloyal Imperial"

    If you were truly loyal, you'd be outraged every time somebody in general chat confused the Sith lackeys with the real, OT Empire.
  24. Rilwen_Shadowflame Force Ghost

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    Mar 27, 2005
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    :_|Was it something I said?



    :p
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  25. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    Yet another reason why Legacy righly does so well in terms of diversity.

    As I said before, by the end of the series, Rogue Squadron's known members didn't contain a single WHM. And the only known human member was a black female who was also Rogue Leader. :cool:

    Any scence on the bridge of the Alliance scores well on diversity too. I also really like a panel in Legacy #20 or #21 that showed the bridge pit crew of Stazi's battle cruiser Indomitable. IIRC, the pit crew had Duros, Mon Cals, Ithorians, humans, and at least 1-2 other species. Plus we had the awesome Captain Yorub, the most awesome Sullustan in history.

    --Adm. Nick
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