Lit Plagueis' Downfall

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Slowpokeking, Feb 18, 2013.

  1. Slowpokeking Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 5
    I think it's quite predictable. He was great and wise in the beginning, like Sidious said, "who in his time really was", but later he mostly rely on Sidious of the politics and focus on the secret of immortality, the co-chancellor is a quite dumb idea, if he didn't ask for it Sidious would mostly still keep his life for a while since Sidious hadn't learned cheat death yet.

    Also in the end Sidious mentioned "Yinchorr, Dorvalla, Eriadu, the Neimodians, clone army and Dooku" were all his idea, he just used Force suggestion to give it to Plagueis, is that really true?
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Feb 18, 2013
  2. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 9
    I don't know about "quite" predictable. It was somewhat predictable, given what we already know about Palpatine. Plagueis came up with the idea of using the Sith to infiltrate the Republic government rather than fighting the Jedi openly as they had in the past, and he used Palpatine, who was a brilliant political strategist, to implement this plan. And Palpatine beat him at his own game.

    Palpatine and Plagueis met their downfalls in similar ways: Plagueis got too full of himself to realize that he was being played, and Palpatine got too full of himself to realize that maybe Vader, deep inside, loved Padme (and thus their son) more than he revered the Emperor.
  3. Slowpokeking Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 5
    I think Plagueis is better on the big picture of the politics, but Sidious is better on knowing people's emotion and desire.
  4. Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    On a case-by-case basis, it's unclear. If we go back into the text we see that some of it definitely was his idea as alleged: the function of the clone army, and a related suggestion that the Jedi must be made to appear to be the enemies of the Republic. For the rest of it, we don't have specific textual evidence to support Palpatine's claim, though we can always choose to believe that the relevant material took place off-page. In some cases saying it was his idea doesn't seem very meaningful, as in the case of Maul literally dropping into his lap. In the case of Dooku, the text makes it look like it was all Plagueis' idea, as opposed to anything prompted by Palpatine.

    Also, I don't think Force suggestion was necessarily required; Sidious could have used simple mundane suggestion.
  5. Unbowed.Unbent.Unbroken Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2012
    star 1
    I recall that Luceno hinted in an interview somewhere that it was more on the self-aggrandizing side of things. For all his megalomania, I think Sidious always felt a degree of inferiority torwards Plagueis.

    Sidious' speech as he's killing his master is almost schizophrenic in nature. I find it funny. Sidious has no qualms about completely taking credit for Plagueis' work, yet in the same breath accuses Plagueis of "with meticulous skill, manipulated him into committing patricide, matricide, fratricide." He says he was Plagueis had him "under his thumb". "But Master- never!"
    It's even funnier when it comes to the issue of power:
    - first he calls himself 'his equally powerful apprentice'
    - then he calls himself "the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy has ever known" (how would he know anyway?)
    - then he uses Plagueis' own words to justify his death:"How often you said that the old order of Bane had ended with the death of your Master. An apprentice no longer needs to be stronger, you told me, merely more clever."

    Well which is it Sidious? Stronger, equal or weaker but more clever?[face_tee_hee]
    Last edited by Unbowed.Unbent.Unbroken, Feb 19, 2013
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  6. Darth_Pevra Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 6
    Not shizophrenic. Narcisstic. Sith Lords like Palps, Plagueis and even Vader are all megalomaniacs who try to compensate some secret feeling of inferiority through sheer power. All of them were repressed in some way before they became Sith. Plagueis through Tenebrous, Palps through his father, Vader through Watto and the Jedi order.

    And that's why their statements about power are so conflicting. Sometimes their own insecurities are more on the surface than other times.
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  7. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    Bane in Path of Destruction, with his father.
  8. Slowpokeking Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 5
    He did become very very powerful at that time and even more powerful later, mostly handle the business by himself when Plagueis was achieving immortality.