Lit Plagueis' experimentation on Venamis

Discussion in 'Literature' started by SaucySarlaac, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. SaucySarlaac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 1
    Two questions,

    In Darth Plagueis when Venamis eats the comabloom and ends up on Aborah in Plagueis' laboratory, Plagueis learns that Venamis mind is gone, but his body remains. Later, he and Sidious are able to resurrect him several times.

    After the first death, Plagueis can return people to life, but their mind is gone, so how useful is this power? or is this the point that Plagueis could not quite master it entirely. He could return others to life, but they would not be the same as before, hence Sidious telling Anakin that if they worked together they could learn it.

    Also, does Palpatine kill Plagueis in his apartment because the opportunity arose without knowing all of the knowledge Plagueis has on cheating death? or did he believe he knew how to do it based on the sessions with resurrecting Venamis, only to learn after the fact that he was missing something and couldn't do it?
  2. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    I don't remember it being said that their mind was always gone. Perhaps only for Venamis, because of the comabloom, but I'm sure Plagueis could have healed him even of that if he so desired.

    It also seems to have been left intentionally vague on how knowledgeable and skilled Palpatine was at midichlorian manipulation. I think it's safe to assume he never mastered it as much as Plagueis did, but we don't know how much he did know.
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  3. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Only just started to finally read Plagueis last week, but it's interesting to hear about their memories fading.

    That actually matches up with Plagueis's writings in the Book of Sith about the mind dissolving into the Force almost instantly.
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  4. SaucySarlaac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 1
    That clears it up a bit, but remember the story of Plagueis' first assassination of Sienar, choking him and allowing blame to fall on the cooks for incorrectly prepared bloat fish. It says he was carbon frozen and then his organs vat grown and replaced but Sienar was gone. I wonder if Plagueis was able to recall consciousness from the force once the victim was dead and being resurrected.

    It just seems inconclusive or as you say intentionally vague as to how effective the resurrection process was... I wonder if they return to it.

    I'd like to think Plagueis was able to retain consciousness like Yoda, Obi-Wan, Anakin and Qui-Gon (though never seen, only heard) in the force.
  5. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Feb 7, 2013
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  6. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    The Sith can retain consciousness after death, but it's not permanent or natural, and seems to usually involve anchoring their spirit to something in the physical world (kind of like horcruxes, but Sith have been doing this in the EU for years before Harry Potter).

    Exar Kun seemed to have his spirit anchored to his temple, Karness Muur had his talisman, Sion used his own decaying body,Krayt used his own rejuvenated body... Palpatine was able to exist, untethered in limbo, for a while, but it seems to have really driven him insane (it might not even have been Palpatine that survived, just dark side energy that was imprinted on by Palpatine that thought it was Palpatine).

    Only by following Qui-gon's advice can one do it permanently, be completely free, and be at peace.
  7. Darth_Foo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 4
    Just finished my fourth time reading this and IMO while it is vague it makes sense that Sidious can at least heal others because Plagueis' plan that they would heal eachother and therefore live forever. But like you said the text doesn't say one way or another wether he can heal himself
  8. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    True, I remember that part, but it isn't really clear if Plagueis had yet gotten around to teaching Palpatine that part. Personally, I think he did, but there's no way to know for sure.
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  9. Darth_Foo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 4
    Right. Or we can assume he may have taught himself at some point afterwards.
  10. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Poor Qui-Gon, disproved by NPOV of the CSWE. :p
  11. General Immodet Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    Sorry for spamming your thread, but since this is a Plagueis thread I thought this would be the right place to post it.
    Does anyone know whether the planet of Sith worshippers Plagueis and Palpatine visit is the same planet seen in the Star Wars Tales comic The Sith in the Shadow?
  12. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    No, they aren't the same, the planet from The Sith in the Shadow hasn't been identified yet, while the planet from Darth Plagueis is called Kursid.
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  13. SaucySarlaac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 1

    Interesting point, if they were able to heal eachother, back and forth, but struggled with healing themselves personally, how comes Palps didnt teach Anakin to heal his disfigurements and likewise, why did he not heal Vader's injuries.

    We are led to believe Palpatine thought Anakin was diminished by his injuries, but he also tells Yoda Vader will become more powerful than either of them. Did it happen to conveniently work out for Sidious that he had a powerful apprentice who was dangerously co-dependent on him and not powerful enough alone to supplant him. It raises the question which I constantly ask, did Palpatine intend to end the rule of two with himself and just have a long line of apprentices or did he actually want a strong one to replace him? I imagine the former rather than the latter. He tells Plagueis that he was wrong to think he would be excused from the Rule of Two, but hypocritically believed himself to be.

    Maybe thats characteristic of Sidious and maybe all Sith lords.

    back on point though, I don't think Sidious knew everything, he was just took the opportunity to kill Plagueis when he had the chance, maybe he didn't know when the opportunity might arise again, so just thought, 'I'm sure its written down somewhere in Aborah records' or believed he could trial and error learn it as Plagueis had.
  14. Unbowed.Unbent.Unbroken Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2012
    star 1
    Pretty much. Based on the novel and Plagueis' chapter in the Book of Sith I conclude that, given enough time, Plagueis would have become the strongest being that ever existed, bar none.

    Sidious had to realize that he would always be a step or two behind Plagueis in power, so he had to get rid of him while it was still possible, before the old Muun eventually found the secret to eternal life.
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  15. Esg Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    His consciousnesses used one of His Hands and traveled to Byss
  16. SaucySarlaac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 1

    Totally, I also believe Plagueis was on the road to becoming the most powerful Sith Lord, possibly force user. He had measured an increase in Midi-Chlorians so who knows how far they would have continued to increase. However, his additional strength would stem from a perversion of the will of the force through his manipulations. He also noticed that the force was fleeing from him (as he leaves Sojourn before it is bombed) and also the age-old question pops up, was Anakin created by the force (not by Plagueis) as a counter to the Sith lord? Was it fighting back through a physical agent as it had succumbed to Sidious and Plagueis' shift? I personally believe it had. Anakin was meant to destroy Plagueis but Sidious got there first. (not for here, but speculation perhaps for a lead for the next trilogy with Plagueis coming back and Luke having to face him)
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  17. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I think it's very strange that the Force "fights back" by creating the very thing Plagueis was trying to create in the first place.
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  18. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Poetic justice- it gives him exactly what he wants- but makes what he wants, the very thing that will destroy his Sith order.
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  19. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    The Force be a petty mistress.
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  20. SaucySarlaac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 1
    Indeed. The Sith seek dominance and we are told its all about balance. When one side seeks to dominate, there can never be balance, so its fitting the force spawns a corporeal personification of the itself in order to destroy those seeking to exert their will over it. Interesting how Anakin trained as a Jedi in the lightside destabilises the force further by adding the number/volume of those tapping into the force, magnifying the disparity between light and dark. Through human circumstance, matters tip Anakin to the dark.. or was it the will of the force all along that he should fall? hmmm questions, questions.