Lit Rooting for the Empire (or certain Imperials)- why?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Iron_lord, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. Zane the Reaper Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 1
    [IMG]
  2. MistrX Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2006
    star 4
    They have the coolest theme music.

    Seriously, though, on one hand, Havac illustrates a major reason very well.

    And once in a while, you come across the noble Imperial. Like any named stormtroopers that Zahn writes.
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  3. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Have you seen those caps the Rebellion soldiers wear? If I were in their position I'd let the Stormtroopers shoot me so as not to die of embarrassment.
  4. thesevegetables Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    And even Luke wanted to be an Imperial pilot for years, calling it his only way off of the farm.
    Most of the Empire was made up of good people. Those people are not interesting mega-villains so we focus on the deeds of Palpatine, etc.
  5. Darth_Culator Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2005
    star 2
    Mace Windu said it best, in the Episode III novel: "The Republic is civilization. It’s the only one we have."

    Love it or hate it, the Empire is the successor to the Republic. It is civilization. The only goal of the Rebellion is to destroy it.

    The Rebellion is chaos.
  6. fett 4 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    I also like Stormtroopers for the simple reason I always route for the underdogs in a fight. I mean these poor guys can't shoot to save there lives (literally) and lose to TeddyBears, you cannot get more underdoggish than that.
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  7. Reveen Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2012
    star 3
    If the rebels put some actual effort into their equipment design they wouldn't have this problem.

    And there's the fact that most of the Imps that get shot in the movies are just schmo's doing their jobs, who might've signed onto the military for paychecks, career opportunities, or the adventure of it. Whereas the rebellion is an insurgency and by definition most of the people in it joined for the basic purpose of shooting people they don't like.

    So I got a bit less sympathy. Unless you're one of the saps that joined the military of a planet that itself joined the rebellion. Poor suckers.

    You say that like it's a bad thing.
  8. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    So being a traitor is OK if it's to the Republic, but not if it's to the Empire?
  9. Reveen Jedi Grand Master

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    Oct 4, 2012
    star 3
    The republic let the damn Bothans have a senate seat and handed over taxpayer's money to the Jedi for thousands of years. Screw 'em.
    Last edited by Landostrip, Feb 1, 2013
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  10. thesevegetables Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    The Jedi were the primary protectors of the Republic.
    The overarching goal of the old Jedi Order was not to discover the ways of the light side of the Force, but to use what they had to protect the Republic.
  11. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    The very fact that Palpatine is able to exploit the traditions of noble public service that the Old Republic is build around and twist it so serve his regime is just one of the things that makes the Empire so perverted. The Warfare guide has a great section on this covering the early Empire and how everyone seemed to have been along for the ride and only slowly beginning to wake up and realizing what the Republic had been turned into.
    Last edited by Gorefiend, Feb 1, 2013
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  12. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Patriotism is overrated anyway. I've never bought the idea that a person should be unquestionably loyal to a social institution, particularly one that's subject to quick change in leadership; so while "traitor" does not change meaning, the reasons one would defect may become more valid.

    On the other hand, the Imperials have better hats...
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  13. Darth_Culator Force Ghost

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    Dec 10, 2005
    star 2
    Oh, SO much better!
    [IMG]
  14. Zane the Reaper Jedi Master

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    Nov 5, 2012
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    ^
    The one on the left is hysterical lol
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  15. fett 4 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    We shall have to disagree about the Jedi here.

    The Jedi had no problem with Slavery or people suffering under it.
    They have no problem taking you children and sticking them in a creepy cult environment to be brainwashed.
    They had no problem starting a galactic civil war, or using a genetically created slave army, (which had been created in their name) to fight it
    They had no problem planing a military coup to overthrow the legitimate Government (before they knew he was Sith Lord) to insure a "peaceful transition" .. translation only having a Government that "they" approve off.
    They have no problem using a person's children to commit patricide, literally after standing and watching the father burn to a crisp, while declaring he's a brother and he loves him over his death screams.

    Put simply the Jedi are some of the most awful people around and saying they use the "Light side" is kind off a sick joke
    Last edited by fett 4, Feb 1, 2013
  16. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Ah, Windu, what a classic example of a Jedi dealing in absolutes right there...

    No forward thinking to what the next civilisation could be. :p
    Now, now, you'll upset @ if you go laughing at the one he affectionately calls ol' penis hat.
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Feb 1, 2013
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  17. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    There are six billion people on this planet. Every opinion imaginable is likely held by someone.

    Plus, this happens to villains a lot, often because villains get cooler stuff. At the least the Empire fans aren't as bad as the Zeon fanatics.
    Gorefiend likes this.
  18. Lugija Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2009
    star 4
    Remember that stormtroopers are the only ones who ever set their weapons on stun. You know, that setting in their weapons that lets them fight without killing their opponents.
    (Which should be used in every "Haw haw you can't shoot me, I have a hostage!" -situation but never is)
  19. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    Of course they have a problem with it but since they are bound to the Republic they can’t just start wars when they feel like it, especially in Qui-Gons case of being in Hutt space whilst on the run.
    They get parental consent not like they steal them and their "brainwashing" is a lot less extrem then many other organzied religons employ when teaching children.
    Dooku started it by trying to execute Republic dignitaries. The Jedi just resusced them.

    Of course they have problems with it, but part of Palpatines plan is precisely to force them into using it and catch them in the moral morass of the whole war.
    The Senate is the government, the Chancellor just its head and as Mace even mentions they intend to hand him over the Senate to judge.
    Palpatine was do to hand back his special powers he was granted for the war, thats all.

    Obi-Wan was in emotional turmoil at the time, though yes the scene was really badly set up and should have ended with being sure that Vader had died. Though I always liked how reluctant both Obi-Wan and Yoda are to sent out Luke, precisely because it would drive him to the Dark Side to actually take revenge.
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  20. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    It's fiction.

    It's ok to enjoy characters and events. Long ago there was a Disney special about The Villain. In fiction they are fun! They make the story. Reality? We would love nothing about Vader or Palpatine or Fett.

    So yes, I like the Executor more than I like any Mon Cal ship, but if both existed with the Rebels and Empire made real of course I'd be rooting for the good guys.

    From an entertainment point of view you sort of have to make the bad guys interesting in some way or else they are just bad guys, and we want nothing to do with them.
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  21. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    Same reason I love the Helghast. Because they are so damn interesting, much more so than the Heroes. Outside of the named characters, the Rebellion doesn't have a lot going for it in Charisma. The clean, organized ranks of Stormtroopers, the awesome looking if horrifically impractical Walkers, and the TIE AVENGER BEST FIGHTER IN THE GALAXY NO SCREW YOU DEFENDER AND MISSILE BOATS makes me love them. They get all the cool toys, and contrary to the EU's opinion that Tie pilots are braindead morons, they rip shielded fighters to pieces in every fight.
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  22. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    It's been argued quite plausibly that the Helghast have more claim to being the heroes in Killzone.
  23. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    Not necessarily. They're definitely the victims of the series, but they are far from Heroes. Their actions in the first and second games were mostly justified, but by the end of the third game, it was clear that the Helghast society was fracturing without strong leadership. With Radec and Visari dead, there was no effective figurehead for the nation, leading to the conflict between Stahl and Orlock.

    The Higs were capitalists who broke off from UCN to form their own colonies independent of Earth. Who they had helped fund interstellar travel in the first place. Then the UCN used their military might to crush the Helghan people and excise them from their garden world to their manufacturing planet, installing the ISA colonial forces to act as security while they pranced back to Earth.

    The ISA didn't start the war, but the Helghast didn't either. Both sides were fighting for their own ideals and historical rights, while the main antagonists sat back at earth, waiting to flatten the next person to dare step out of line.
  24. Lazy Storm Trooper Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 2012
    star 4
    "There's something about them I like"
    They are order in the galaxy. While some in the organization were corrupted the same came by said about the Republic and even our real world governments. But of the BILLIONS of men and women to sign the dotted line few ever though as themselves as evil or were corrupt. Most still had ethic and morals.

    Even though the old government of the Republic was purposefully took down by Palpatine the Empire fill the void left there well. I mean if the Jedi and rebels did not start an insurgency the Empire would have not needed to go to extremes (such as blowing up a planet) to keep order in the galaxy.

    "There's something about the Rebellion (or certain Rebels) I dislike"
    The Rebellion wish to take down order and civilization. They are merciless (see what Leia did to the downed Tie Pilot in the Star Wars #1 comic for an example), if they see an enemy they shoot to kill and take no prisoners and if they never rose up against Imperial reign we might not so many deaths in the galaxy.
  25. Zorkel567 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 20, 2010
    star 3
    I root for the Empire because if I don't Palpatine and Vader would execute me, just like the founders of the Rebellion, Mon Mothma, Garm Bel Iblis, and Bail Organa... Oh wait...
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