Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. I-poodoo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2001
    star 4
    yowsa! I'm gone for a day and all this sprouts up.

    Anyway by request I'm reposting this from EUC thread discussion

    CoW
    J. Michael Stacinsky also had many happy things happen to his characters after the Dark Times in B5. They were allowed some real victories along the way, even when things seemed darkest too. Del Rey has WAY overdone the "sadism", to the point that the characters who survive aren't likely to ever really recover.


    *I absolutely agree here. This is where DR has really come short. They?ve had an imbalance too much sadism for little benefit. DR?s Sadism should have been used to have the characters gain as much as they lost, to have the characters learn something, to provide a challenge for the characters to overcome. The characters in NJO, DNT, and LOTF have gained little so far and lost a lot. They haven?t learned much and the books that follow they either forget what they learned before or the lesson gets perverted or misunderstood by the next writer. As for overcoming challenges?The only thing DR has had them accomplish is survival?some didn?t even accomplish that.

    Dart
    a)Luke's character arc in the OT concluded. The only way to continue to use him as a character really was the approach used by Zahn, to make him 'the first of the new'; and it was an obvious strategy, so much so that both TTT and DE simultaneously came up with the angle. However, launching an existing character on a new arc creates immediate issues. This was complicated by,

    c.) When DR got the contract, they recognised (rightly, I think) that Luke's two major arcs through Bantam - his singleness and his Jedi Order - were concluded. Instead of crafting a new arc for him, their initial response was to conclude that it was time for Luke to go. Lucas nixed the idea, and DR have been playing 'ooopsie' ever since. Shoehorning Luke into the early NJO led to a poor characterisation that has never been fully recovered from.


    *But the problem is Luke and most of the characters except for the exceptions of Anakin Solo and Jacen Solo don't have a character arc under DR's watch. They've been trying to remake a franchise built around the "Herp's Journey" and transforming it into a more reality based foundation for the GFFA which is just at cross purposes to what SW is.

    Everyone was convinced that Anakin Solo was going to be the Luke of the NJO. Then DR killed him off and tried to make Jacen the hero, but the problem with that is they didn't really try to treat that with the panache a story founded around "The Hero's Journey" would have done, and having Jacen go bad sabotages the effort they made with his character in the second half of NJO.

    They're supposed to be plotting ahead between writers and editors, but honestly I can't tell if they are. They just have no direction...they're in the control room frantically running around flipping switches and pushing flashing buttons...I'm starting to seriously wonder if DR even knows what it is trying to do with this SW liscense they have.

    Nobody
    Its arguable whether Star Wars is really Anakin's story. The movies are his story, since he shows up in all six of them, and I think Lucas said so too, but its arguable how one can interpret his story. Yes, he falls (though its a somewhat tragic flaw), becomes evil, one of the more iconic fictional evil figures, but in the end, he is redeemed by the love of his son and dies in the light.

    LR
    I'd actually respectfully disagree to that one. It is a story of Anakin's internal struggle to be a good being rather than an exterior struggle against the evil Empire. Yes. That is a revision of the focus from the external to the internal but it is still ultimately a story of good vs evil, and good does triumph. It still I believe a story of heroes fighting and ultimately winning over darkness, in the end, Anakin chose his son, chose the light side of the Force over the dark side.

    2nd Quest
    Though, one could say he could have made the right choice 23 years earlier and saved a lot of people a lot of suffering. I've liked the not
  2. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    patchworkz7

    Reposted from the REV thread at CoW's request:

    Thanks, Patch!

    For me, the words that Luke speaks are just loaded with meaning upon meaning, and since Luke is NOT a character who is prone to vengence,... I think it just shows the humanity of Luke Skywalker,

    It's true, Luke is NOT prone to vengeance. Yet all of the passages that I quoted for you indicate that he WAS killing for personal reasons. Luke WAS seeking and killing for revenge. I don't really think this showed the "humanity of Luke Skywalker." Luke's brand of "humanity" involves compassion, forgiveness, and redemption.

    because I think he had loved the person who Lumiya was and wanted very badly to bring her back into the light...

    I agree that Luke would have liked to have brought Lumiya back to the Light, as he would like to bring EVERYONE back to the Light. However, I'm not one who is convinced that Luke "loved" Lumiya all that much. Did you ever read the Shira Brie issues of Marvel? They never really had all that much of a relationship. Shira's whole purpose in trying to get close to Luke was to kill him or discredit him. Yes, I think Luke was attracted to her and may eventually have grown closer to her, but they really hadn't progressed very far in a "relationship". Right before they got into those TIE fighters for their mission, Shira kissed Luke. He was truly surprised. I took that to mean this was the first time she had ever kissed him. Then, during that mission, the Force told him there was an enemy in the ship he shot down. That ship was Shira's. Over the years, they faced each and fought each other many times. I wouldn't exactly call that much of a love story.

    So the words Luke spoke actually bothered me. To me, it almost seemed like he was mocking her, like: "I'd never let you fall, but I WILL kill you."

    And if Luke truly felt badly about killing Lumiya, if it had bothered him, wouldn't he have been sad afterwards? He wasn't. The book says, "Now he could breathe again."

  3. patchworkz7 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2004
    star 4
    I did read the Shira Brie issues of Marvel (and the later Lumiya ones), and I think Luke was attracted to her, and at that point he was still young and prone to crushes. Men tend to take early crushes rather seriously. Not all men, but Luke is thoughtful, sincere, introspective, and clearly attracted to Shira.

    Do I think they had a passionate affair? No, but I do think he felt for her, and he also had some guilt for shooting her down, even if she WAS the enemy, because that's who Luke is.

    As to "Now he can breathe again", he's deathly afraid for Ben. Remember that Luke was ready to charge off because Ben was threatened. Mara calmed him down and smoothed over his fears and he let her go because he thought she could handle Lumiya just fine, not expecting her to run into Jacen.

    He can breathe because he doesn't think Ben is in danger anymore.

    Was there an element of vengence involved? Yes, but I think there was also a bit of preemptive protection of Ben since he now believes Lumiya is out to harm him and his family.

    However, I do think there can be several readings of that scene and dialogue, which is why I say that they're very loaded words. With the fall echoing a "fall to the darkside" as well as a physical fall, the fight itself echoing their first fight as Luke and Lumiya, and the idea that Luke will stetch out a hand to any in need.

    It's a complex scene with complex emotions, which is why I like it. I do understand why you dislike it, but while I think your points are all very valid, I think they're only part of the reading of that scene. I don't think your reading is wrong, quite the opposite, but for me, there was just more to it than that.
  4. Dawud786 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2006
    star 4
    It's not just Anakin's struggle against darkness. The OT is still a story of an internal battle, just the PT is. They cover both the inner spiritual struggle and an external struggle against evil. The problem with the Clone Wars is that the battle lines are not truly clear. Which, I think, is the an allegory for the confusion in Anakin Skywalker himself.

    In the OT the battle lines are exceedingly clear. Rebels good, Imperials bad. Which is an allegory for Luke's own inner state where right and wrong are pretty clearly defined for and by him. He doesn't suffer any confusion and the only time he's every really close to giving into his anger is on the DSII. It is via Luke's clarity that Anakin can even come out of the shroud of Darth Vader. Placing the two trilogies together does not make it one story about Anakin Skywalker by any means. Especially when the focus of the story shifts so dramatically away from Anakin/Vader in Episode IV. The OT is clearly Luke's story.
  5. Ulicus Lit'ari

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2005
    star 6
    Since they're rewriting the Marvel stories anyway, they might as well rejig the story about and make Luke and Shira Brie lovers. [face_whistling] (I'd like to see the whole Shira Brie arc redone by Dark Horse, personally)

    Still, even if they don't do that, I think it's a much better story if both Shira Brie and Luke really did care a great deal for one another, and would have - barring her accident - shaken off the yoke of her Imperial Masters.

    And, hey, CoW - for all we know, the reason Luke looks so surprised that Shira kissed him is because it's the first time she's done it in public. ;)
  6. Dawud786 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2006
    star 4
    I'd like to see Shira Brie/Lumiya re-tooled by DH. Maybe not make her and Luke lovers... but I'd love better art. Those issues are tough reads viewed from today's standards.
  7. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    patchworkz7 :

    I think Luke was attracted to her, and at that point he was still young and prone to crushes.

    But there's difference between an attraction/crush and real love. If Luke had truly loved her, maybe there would have been an added poignancy to having to kill her, but Shira/Lumiya has really been his enemy for most of his life. While he should regret taking any life, however necessary, I don't really see a special sadness here because this was a "love of Luke's life". She wasn't. She was more of a nemesis. I don't know if Shira herself ever had any real feelings for Luke. I saw it all as an act to get close to Luke to kill or ruin him.

    Though I do agree that Luke probably felt guilty about shooting her down and causing all of those injuries. As you say, that's who Luke is. But, she was the one who was really at fault. The Force DIDN'T betray Luke, Shira did. She DID mean to harm him.

    As to "Now he can breathe again", he's deathly afraid for Ben. He can breathe because he doesn't think Ben is in danger anymore.

    But this wasn't said or even implied in the text, I don't think. The line comes in right after Luke has killed Lumiya. There is no thought of Ben. There is no thought about Luke being sad or sorry for ending Lumiya's life. There's only the idea that "Now he could breathe again". *I* took that to mean he had satisfied his thirst for vengeance. :(

    With the fall echoing a "fall to the darkside" as well as a physical fall,

    Yes, I saw that in there. I'm sure Luke did wish he could have kept Shira from a fall to the darkside. Unfortunately, she had really already fallen before he even met her.

    and the idea that Luke will stetch out a hand to any in need.

    And I DO like the IDEA of Luke stretching out to those in need. Unfortunately, in this case, it was a false offer of help, as right after saving her from a fall to her death (Which I would have liked far better, as it would have been part of a fair fight) with that outstretched hand, he killed her, again, making it VERY personal.

    I don't like the scene at all, because it reminds me too much of Anakin Skywalker taking revenge after his mother's death by killing Tuskin women and children. Heroes should NOT stoop to the level of the villains, and that's what I see Luke doing here. And after SO many years of being a Jedi knight, this scene truly bothers me. I see it as the worst thing Luke has EVER done in is life. I see this as his worst darkside act. :(
  8. J_K_DART Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2001
    star 5
    Re: Luke and politicians, I think the most interesting commentary on this was in the Corellian trilogy. There, Mon Mothma warns him what's going to happen; sooner or later, he'll inevitably be drawn into a cause of some sort, and he'll have to become active in politics. However, Mothma argues, if Leia has skills she has not chosen to develop that she shares with Luke, then the same is true of Luke; he has political skills that he has not chosen to develop.

    Again, it's interesting to look at that as yet another subtle attempt to launch Luke into a new character arc, one that hasn't really been dealt with as effectively as it could've been. CoW: Your comments re: Luke's idea of handling the Order differently in HoT actually underscore my point. Zahn's whole purpose in HoT seems to have been to finally 'wrap up' several of the prominent Luke-style character arcs, while at the same time providing a couple of pointers to ones he thought could be developed further. Again, they weren't particularly.
  9. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Actually, I considered Shira Brie to be genuinely falling for Luke Skywalker. The kiss she gave him was genuine and I believe we were (as the readers) expected to believe that Shira Brie was going to defect and join the Rebellion for real. That's when the horrible transformation to Lumiya occurs and makes it all the more poignant for Luke that HE COULD HAVE redeemed her at one point but that moment passed.

    As for why I think their relationship should be retconned, it was Lucas who said "A kiss is equivalent to a sex scene."

    :)

    Luke was quite the swashbuckler back in those comics, I point out.

    But yes, for me, the final scene with Luke Skywalker and Lumiya as written by Traviss incorporates elements of vengeance but his final words underscore that it's not nearly so simplistic as Luke wanting to murder her for killing his wife. It's also twisted with the tragedy that he loves Lumiya as a former friend and intends to kill her for her own good as well.
  10. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5

    Nobody145

    I prefer to think of it as Luke's story, but he only appeared in three (four, if you count RotS) movies while Anakin was in a major character in all six movies.

    Isn't it rather strange though to have the villain be the major character in the story? That doesn't really sit very well with me. That's why I prefer to think of Luke as the major hero of the saga and Anakin/Vader as the major villain. Like C, I like to think of the PT as Anakin's story and the OT as Luke's story.

    making Zayne Luke's ancestor would elevate him a lot. And if the Fetts get an ancestor 4,000 years ago, then some other family lines should last at least that long.

    Hey, I agree! Certainly the most important family in SW should have a known ancestor as long ago as the Fetts do!

    And its kind of funny having Luke nag at Cade again and again. He's like a conscience Cade can only drown out by knocking himself out with deathsticks.

    I'd like to see Luke appear more to Cade more often. I'd also like to see him make even more of an impact on Cade.

    Killing Caedus isn't that incredibly hard, they just need an opportunity.

    As apparently even a Mandalorian commando knows. :( I wish Luke wouldn't have blown HIS opportunity in Revelation either. As you said, when it was clear that Caedus didn't want redemption, Luke and the other Jedi just should have blasted his ship when they had the chance.

    Though the alternatives of either Jaina or Luke killing him aren't exactly appealing either... I'd cheer if he ended up dead, but it would still do a lot of psychological trauma to the rest of his family.

    That's why I'd like to go with the Force-stripping option.



    Jedi Ben

    I tend to see one point of ROTJ being that a Jedi, even a supremely skilled one, cannot conquer the dark side alone. It took both Luke and Anakin to kill the Emperor.

    It does seem to take teamwork. I'm glad that you agree that the entire saga shouldn't "all be perceived through Anakin". While Luke may not have been in all six movies, his importance in the saga is without question. Without Luke, Anakin would not have been redeemed and Palpatine would not have been defeated.

    Returning to Luke, it's interesting that the craftier elements of Luke's personality aren't often looked at.Luke is a good deal defter at dealing with politicians than is often shown, BP has a good example of this. What Luke came to understood is the faith in the entire democratic process was on the verge of collapse and with that goes any authority that resides within it.

    Not only in politics, JB. I think Luke's craftiness and resourcefulness are often forgotten in the EU. Luke was actually quite clever and resourceful in the films. I particularly liked his sort of "Trojan Horse" method of getting his lightsaber into Jabba's palace and his ideas for taking down AT-ATs.

    I-poodoo

    *But the problem is Luke and most of the characters except for the exceptions of Anakin Solo and Jacen Solo don't have a character arc under DR's watch. They've been trying to remake a franchise built around the "Herp's Journey" and transforming it into a more reality based foundation for the GFFA which is just at cross purposes to what SW is.

    I certainly agree about the characters, especially Luke. Except for a few things here or there, like the killing of Shimrra and Lomi Plo, Luke hasn't even been given all that much to do. His characterizations are all over the place, and he doesn't seem to grow or develop. Luke seems to keep needing to relearn what he already knew. I feel that Luke has regressed since VotF. The vengeance killing was the worst. :(

    *I don't feel Anakin is the chosen one at all. It was Luke who defeated the Sith when he stopped his fit of rage in that fight with Vader. When he threw his lightsaber to the floor That was Luke seeing the Power of the DSide, and deciding that power was not really worth it. That's the defeat of the Sith and why Luke is the Chosen
  11. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

    VIP
    Member Since:
    May 9, 2000
    star 6
    I think the Shira Brie arc has some of the best art and storytelling in the whole Marvel run, personally.

    I've ALWAYS read subtext into the gap between her hauling him into a kiss and "Several Hours Later", or whatever the next caption is: dangerous mission, possibility they might not come back, that sort of thing - Shira says as much.

    Bear in mind that, at that point, Shira's mission was to shoot down Luke. I doubt that Palpatine or Vader would want to remove the Galaxy's best source of viable Skywalker genetic material without exploiting it. [face_mischief]

    And I think that she did have feelings for him, as well....

    Of course, this leads to the question of whether Luke's compassion would extend to having comfort sex with his wing-mate, and generally, into the question of what sort of man the Jedi Master is.

    I have to admit, I like Luke Skywalker when he's scarred and human, but I think that he can only be a successful protagonist if he retains his sense of goodness and his ability to act like the hero-king he is for the Jedi Order.

    I'll go so far as to say that DelRey may have ALREADY fatally damaged the character in the canon continuity: they've had him being ineffectual for the length of TWO full story-arcs in NJO and DN3, and while he stood up and took out his lightsaber at the end of both, he's in danger of becoming something of a cliché.

    In 'Legacy of the Force', we had "Farmboy spurred into action by a major character death in the middle hardcover" as in SbS, followed by "Farmboy reverts to his usual moral hesitancy", and we may get "Farmboy beats the bad guys in the final hardcover", although it will be by Denning, and I've generally liked the way he writes Luke - not least because he depicts him as a great tactical-level starfighter commander, which is what he is and always was.

    To adapt something that Spock once said to Jim Kirk, "Leading an X-wing squadron is his first, best destiny: anything else is a waste of material".

    But I digress. 'Legacy of the Force' was the series that could have saved Luke Skywalker, and there were a lot of good "Luke moments", even good "Luke books"; but the couch-topato Luke sitting in the sofa watching TV in Bloodlines killed his momentum in the series, and the paralysed Luke who did nothing for the length of Sacrifice until he lost his temper at the end had no heroism at all; the hesitant, questioning Luke of Fury was probably the reason I didn't enjoy that book more fully - his character scenes were strangely at odds with his action scenes.

    Though I'll admit that I think his scatalogical discussion with Tenel Ka was the single best Luke scene of the series.

    The thing is, Luke is in danger of his pattern getting tighter: he sits on his hands and worries, then gets up and attacks the bad guys with all the skill we would expect, and then pulls his punches at the end of the book, because the plot needs the conflict to continue until the end of the nine-book arc. He's starting to look like a moral hypocrite, and an incompetent as well.

    The question is, what do we do with Luke Skywalker now?

    Personally, I think Tenel Ka should drag him away to Hapes - or Dathomir - to be Allana's stepfather, and to sire a lot more Skycrawlers. :D

    But perhaps the authors should learn from Zahn's experience - the man has written seven Luke-focused novels, after all: firstly, have the action come to him, and secondly, give him lots of individual physical and analytical challenges to get through in the novel. That way, Farmboy is stretched by the story, and getting through the book is an accomplishment in itself, even if the bad guys escape at the end of the book.

    - The Imperial Ewok
  12. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Counterpoint, Luke isn't exactly a chaste fellow either. He had numerous other girlfriends in the Star Wars comic book series. Plus, we've seen Luke involved with Callista and Akkanah amongst other individuals in the Saga. One of my favorite arguments in comic book fandom was whether Superman was a virgin before his wedding to Lois Lane and a comic book writer pulled out a number of Silver Age books that pointed out that the Man of Steel had DOZENS of girlfriends during the "I'm not even that particularly FOND of Lois Lane period."

    (canonically, he lost his virginity to Lana Lang after High School I believe)

    Luke's nobility of human spirit comes primarilly from his compassion and his courage to stand against evil in all of its forms. One of the important things to avoid losing when writing about the Son of Skywalker is the fact that he's also very much an average guy when you cast aside his noble qualities, which is one of the things that Superman often loses. Smallville/Superboy/Christopher Reeve's Superman was initially successful for the simple fact that Clark Kent (the real one---not the disguise) is a likeable guy you can find in a bunch of cities around America.

    His relatability factor is matched with Luke's own desire to make something of himself at the Academy. I tend to think the best Luke Skywalker depictions in the series have been the following books....

    * Splinter of the Mind's Eye
    * The Truce at Bakura
    * Dark Empire
    * Darksaber
    * Vector Prime
    * Destiny's Way
    * The Unifying Force

    An odd series of choices but I put them all together because they largely show Luke active and working the various problems out. Honestly, I don't much care for Timothy Zahn's Luke partially because he seems like Mara's sidekick half the time.
  13. Dawud786 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2006
    star 4
    So why do we want our heroes to be fornicators though?

    Personally I don't find that to be a particularly endearing quality. I certainly don't want it in my heroes.
  14. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Honestly, a part of it has to do with the fact that the RL people I know who focus on their chastity have included some of the most loathsome examples of humanity that I know of. I'm a very religious person but the taboos regarding sex that some of my fellow faitful hold has literally come to overwhelm everything else about their faith. The fact a person is an otherwise good and noble human being means apparently nothing to them unless they're following their sexual taboos.

    While I don't appreciate a hero who treats women as disposable, I actually prefer a relaxed attitude from heroes towards sex. This may be partially because in the right circumstances, it helps remove traces of misogyny that certain attitudes might actually convey. In the case of Shira Brie and Luke Skywalker, it's the fact that he was able to have a adult and respectful relationship with a woman in a war zone.

    Of course, I might also be operating from a somewhat sexist perspective embodied by these two TV tropes.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AManIsNotAVirgin
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SexAsRite-of-passage

    I figure, if a hero must be "down to Earth in some way." The idea that he gives into temptation regarding ready and willing members of the Opposite Sex seems to be far preferable than Anakin Skywalker slaughtering children in a fit of rage after his mother's torture/murder.

    Anakin Skywalker, unlike Luke, WAS a virgin before marriage. That makes him SOOOO much better.

    o_O
  15. NelanisGhost Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2006
    star 4
    How do you know? Besides, what so bad about it? He was so young, he was like 19. He was brought up in very repressed place. I still think he was healthier in his ability to love, than the people around him, but they drove him nuts. Palpatine is just as screwed up and repressed.

    Luke got married when he was around 40. It would be unrealistic for a hero of the galaxy to have NO girl at all, because some Mara fans thinks the force "told him to save himself for her" when he had no idea who "her" was. I think Luke had lots of casual sex and there's nothing wrong with that. He was a cute young man and sweet and accepting of people. He also had a mission and a focus.

    But after he was married I think he was more hung up than Anakin was. He couldn't stand being away from Mara for ten minutes, and Anakin spent months away from Padme, because he was a dedicated young general. He believed in what he was doing, and his side. His side went away from him in a way. He stayed with it til the bitter end because he couldn't admit when he's wrong. Pride was his biggest stumbling block, Luke being somewhat needy is his.
  16. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Mostly, I'm reading Anakin's body language and attitude towards Padme.

    But they did a Tales story about it.

    Anakin recieves an offer but basically says no because as a Jedi he has to focus on his training and hes thinking of someone else (Padme) when he's 18.

    Yes, that boy had issues.
  17. NelanisGhost Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2006
    star 4
    Tales isn't canon though.

    He was pretty distracted by that Harem of the king though. I think Anakin liked quality babes. He wouldn't do just anyone. Snob!
  18. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    A lot of the Tales have been made canon since then.

    I just think it reflects Anakin's personality.
  19. Starwolf76 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2006
    star 1

    Jedi aren?t exactly squeamish about killing enemies, but usually the important factor is state of mind. In ESB and ROTJ, Luke knows he has to defeat Vader and the Emperor, but can?t do it in such a way he?ll fall to the Dark Side. In LOTF, Luke has been VERY worried about Ben going after Jacen with hate in his heart. Ben can?t even use any ?logistic gymnastics? in justifying an attack on Jacen. Most Jedi fighting Jacen see it as putting down a mad dog rather than defeating a Sith who is trying to take over the Galaxy.

    I don't think that's a spoiler, but from the blurb I read, it seemed that Luke is going to put some kind of illusion of his face on Jaina.


    Yes, that?s what I heard as well (they read the blurb on Force-Cast).

    Aside from a callback to elements in Betrayal, there had better be some solid reasoning behind this. This actually seems like something Jacen would do (and has done) to psyche-out an opponent, similar to Envy in the anime Full Metal Alchemist (which I heartily recommend in both anime and manga formats). Of course, maybe that?s part of Luke?s plan. Jacen morphing into Mara, Padme, pre-Mustafar Anakin Skywalker, etc. wouldn?t distract or unsettle Jaina the way it would Luke.
  20. Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2003
    star 6
    Also, that comic was originally released for Free Comic Book Day, IIRC, and Tales only reprinted it. So it's canon.
  21. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    Anakin may have been in more, but it started with Luke. It's his story of basically saving the galaxy.

    I don't mind Luke sleeping with Shira, but it's not a huge thing for me. I doubt he was a virgin when he married Mara.


    What??!? A, synopsis, please? Someone? Beuller?
  22. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    I don't really see a problem with Luke being linked to a few women, it isn't as if he's cheating on anyone, it's simple serial monogamy, which only links him to Bond really!

    COW,

    It does seem to take teamwork. I'm glad that you agree that the entire saga shouldn't "all be perceived through Anakin". While Luke may not have been in all six movies, his importance in the saga is without question. Without Luke, Anakin would not have been redeemed and Palpatine would not have been defeated.

    * It is notable that everyone who took on Palpatine alone died. It's arguable Windu may well have defeated him without Anakin's intervention.

    Not only in politics, JB. I think Luke's craftiness and resourcefulness are often forgotten in the EU. Luke was actually quite clever and resourceful in the films. I particularly liked his sort of "Trojan Horse" method of getting his lightsaber into Jabba's palace and his ideas for taking down AT-ATs.

    * Hmm, tow cables, now what was I doing last weekend? Oh yeah blowing up AT-ATs, TIEs, a Death Star and a Star Destroyer. (On Rogue Leader, the latter is actualy far more scary!)

    TME,

    * Lots to consider here.

    I have to admit, I like Luke Skywalker when he's scarred and human, but I think that he can only be a successful protagonist if he retains his sense of goodness and his ability to act like the hero-king he is for the Jedi Order.

    * Does this require him to be King though?

    I'll go so far as to say that DelRey may have ALREADY fatally damaged the character in the canon continuity: they've had him being ineffectual for the length of TWO full story-arcs in NJO and DN3, and while he stood up and took out his lightsaber at the end of both, he's in danger of becoming something of a cliché.

    * Yep, a LUKE SMASH cliche.

    In 'Legacy of the Force', we had "Farmboy spurred into action by a major character death in the middle hardcover" as in SbS, followed by "Farmboy reverts to his usual moral hesitancy", and we may get "Farmboy beats the bad guys in the final hardcover", although it will be by Denning, and I've generally liked the way he writes Luke - not least because he depicts him as a great tactical-level starfighter commander, which is what he is and always was.

    * Which tends, to me, beg the question of why he didn't do it earlier. Stories need a way to inhibit the hero without unduly weakening them, a hard balance to get right but very satisfying when done.

    To adapt something that Spock once said to Jim Kirk, "Leading an X-wing squadron is his first, best destiny: anything else is a waste of material".

    * I have to agree! [:D]

    But I digress. 'Legacy of the Force' was the series that could have saved Luke Skywalker, and there were a lot of good "Luke moments", even good "Luke books"; but the couch-topato Luke sitting in the sofa watching TV in Bloodlines killed his momentum in the series, and the paralysed Luke who did nothing for the length of Sacrifice until he lost his temper at the end had no heroism at all; the hesitant, questioning Luke of Fury was probably the reason I didn't enjoy that book more fully - his character scenes were strangely at odds with his action scenes.

    * And I wonder why I haven't been following this series....

    The thing is, Luke is in danger of his pattern getting tighter: he sits on his hands and worries, then gets up and attacks the bad guys with all the skill we would expect, and then pulls his punches at the end of the book, because the plot needs the conflict to continue until the end of the nine-book arc. He's starting to look like a moral hypocrite, and an incompetent as well.

    * Quite so.

    The question is, what do we do with Luke Skywalker now?

    But perhaps the authors should learn from Zahn's experience - the man has written seven Luke-focused novels, after all: firstly, have the action come to him, and secondly, give him lots of individual physical and analytical challenges to get through in the novel. That way, Farmboy is stretched by the story, and getting through the book is an accomplishment
  23. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Since they're rewriting the Marvel stories anyway, they might as well rejig the story about and make Luke and Shira Brie lovers. (I'd like to see the whole Shira Brie arc redone by Dark Horse, personally)

    wouldn't this make Luke a liar to Mara then ? and wouldn't that make a first ?
  24. NelanisGhost Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2006
    star 4

    Notice Mara is rather dubious despite his claims.
  25. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    not known Luke to lie especially when he has a force bond to the girl. seems pointless.