Lit Star Wars: The Old Republic (Bioware MMO) [Spoilers Allowed]

Discussion in 'Literature' started by SephyCloneNo15, Feb 13, 2008.

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  1. Darth_Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2010
    star 5
    Because it is where the Star Map lies, and Ajunta Pall implies the Sith possessed knowledge/use of the Map and the Forge in the early days? Just an idea.
  2. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    Which then begs the alternate question: whose tomb did Naga Sadow take?
  3. Cronal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    If Vel is from the Hundred Year Darkness era, Sadow might have found his stasis pod and had it moved to his own tomb with the intention of waking the Dashade to serve him possibly?
  4. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    It occurs to me when it says he ate a thousand jedi, it might mean dark jedi. it isn't like they considered themselves Sith early on.
  5. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Yeah. After all, Sadow even still spoke of his Jedi blood - they were Lords of the Sith, rather than Sith themselves.

    That's actually one of the main things I'm curious about in TOR: will the rulers of the [Old-New-Reborn] Sith Empire still see themselves as the exiled Jedi rulers of the Sith? Or will they have started thinking of themselves as Sith? I'm assuming the latter, because the former seems too complicated for the average fanboi, but... the Exiles' descendants stuff does seem like it's going to be important.

    I suppose this may be why they've downplayed the Red Sith a lot, to get away from the idea of the Jedi being the masters of their Sith servants... "We're all Sith now." o_O

    As for Naga's tomb? Where's all this stuff about fortresses coming from? I'm rather intrigued all of a sudden about the idea there were fortresses there looong before they dug them up. I just thought all these things in TOR had recently been built (yawn) but if they've completed the digging that Revan had been doing? That's potentially pretty sinister. While I still assume that big ziggurat is presumably a new building, it'd be pretty neat if they'd just dug away so much of the valley that they'd unearthed an ancient pyramid. :)
  6. Kalphite Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2009
    star 2
    The hype behind him just too much for me...it's borderline ridiculous. Bioware is trying too hard to make him sound cool. There are ways to make somebody a good scary villain besides saying things like 'He's devoured hundreds of Jedi' etc etc.

    I haven't had internets for a couple weeks - going back to a previous update...the Codex? *sigh* Where to begin...

    I hated the story options you could access in Mass Effect/Dragon Age. Having to go to a separate menu to read hundreds of lines of text (In a video game!) just doesn't appeal to me.

    If you're going to put story into a video game, it needs to be a part of the action. Bioware has said that this will be a 'story-driven' MMO. But now they're basically saying: "Well, there will be story, but you have to go into a separate in-game menu to read it. We're not going to put all the story elements in the quests, because we think that will take away from the action."

    Incredibly disappointing...the fact that I'm going to have to spend hours reading text on my computer screen (in their words 'longer than the average star wars novel') - is ridiculous. They got lazy and didn't want to put it in quests or spend the money doing the additional voice acting. That's what I'm taking away from this update.

  7. Darth_Garak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 3
    Ummm that sort of stuff is old as the greeks. Balduer's Gate, Icewind Dale, Planescape Torment and Elder Scrolls (to name those I played) had fluff in the form of books you could read, the Witcher had it in journal entries. So DA and ME weren't doing anything new with the codex, not at all. Besides it's never truly import stuff it's just fluff for those who want to RP and really immerse themselves into the setting - you can't do that ammount of fluff through character interactions without having people scream about it. Thus it's put in books or codex entries or whatever and you can read it or not as you choose. Besides you still go to that meniu to check on quests and what not other info.
  8. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    Right, they are already spending countless amounts of time and money to voice act every little line in the game along innumerable dialog paths, but because they didn't want to voice act thousands upon thousands of words of background trivia, they are lazy.

    Video game fans have strange definitions of lazy. (Namely, not spending every waking moment slavishly polishing some obscure feature to perfection).

    As I said, I rather liked the Codex in Mass Effect and Dragon Age (and lots of other games). Gives me the trivia and world building I love without slowing down the plot with infodumps and exospeak, and without breaking immersion by having characters explain things that are suppsoedly common knowledge.
  9. Ulicus Lit'ari

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2005
    star 6
    As I may have mentioned before, the influx of non-Jedi human blood (via the Tapani, and possibly others) would have resulted in a topsy-turvy and rather ironic situation in which being a Sith hybrid would be a surer sign of Dark Jedi descent than being a pure human.

    "Okay, sure, our houses interbred with the Sith and we sprout flesh beards at puberty... but we're all descended from the great Dark Jedi multiple times over. Your ancestors were Tapani for the most part. Lol."

    Those were KotOR quotes I provided, if that's what you're referring to.

    Yeah. It seems like, back in KotOR at least, BioWare were hinting that the Valley of the Dark Lords was the site of some massive fortress before it became... well, a valley with its series of tombs.

    On my end, I'm fond of the idea that -- initially -- there were multiple Dark Lords/Jen'ari until a rather massive spat literally brought their house down around their heads. Ajunta Pall is the only one to walk out alive and he establishes the new "there can be only one Dark Lord of the Sith" rule that is in place until the time of GAotS.

    That could also reconcile his being one of the first Dark Lords (per KotOR) with his being the first Dark Lord (per later material).

    But who knows? We'll see.
  10. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    While I don't want to disagree (because I hated it when I read it), didn't they mention a few weeks back that they actually aren't voicing every single quest, just the main plotline ones, with most of the side-quests not getting the full voice record treatment?
    Ooh... interesting point... [face_thinking]

    I like it. I like it a lot.
    And I also like. :)

    I like the circular lots-only one-lots-only one nature of Sith society and how its inevitably doomed to repeat itself, so having had some spats like that early on would definitely make sense.
  11. Kalphite Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2009
    star 2
    To each their own, I suppose...I really did hate the codex things in those games. That being said, I really do enjoy the Mass Effect novels, and the ToR novels thus far. I would greatly prefer for extra story elements to be released in this method, instead of making us read lengthy materials in a video game setting...

    It would be nice to see something on Korriban other than just tombs or a Sith Academy, for a change.

    Personally, I've always really hated the fact that every major Sith throughout history seems to have their own extravagant tomb somehow. You'd think Lords like Ajunta Paul/Sadow wouldn't have tombs on Korriban to begin with.
  12. Rouge77 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2005
    star 5
    Bonus quests, that happen in the same area as some main quest and are picked automatically on the field in the manner of "kill 10 troopers", won't get voiced. Apparently in the in-game testing already they found a limit on to how many cinematical quest-related scenes in any area their testers could get through without being bored.
  13. AlyxDinas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2010
    star 4
    Precisely. It is something of a mix, it would seem. Main story, major world arcs, and flashpoints obviously gets voiced but there's been footage of things like a smaller slug elimination quest on Korriban that has some degree of voice work to it and there was that whole side quest with the Jedi romance on Tython...

    Now, obviously, not all quests will have it but I think they'll strike a balance on the side quests. Something smaller and more trivial? Probably just some text screens for the most part. Something a bit more in-depth, where you might make some choices? Well, we might see some of those get voice work, even if it is only a handful of lines.
  14. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    So... the game did have it... but they cut it out because testers got bored?

    Why can't they just include menu options to turn things off if you don't care about them?:rolleyes:

    I'm perfectly fine with the "Achievement" type quests of "You killed 30 Wamp-Rats in 10 seconds! Congratulations! Take 10 Bonus Experience Points!" not getting it as, yeah, they're not really story related anyway. But... I hope they're not listening too much to the anti-story crowd.
  15. AlyxDinas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2010
    star 4
    I don't recall them saying that they've cut anything already voiced. Only that there is an observable trend in the playerbase when it comes to retaining attention. One, which I assume is generally offset by the lesser quests not being voiced.
  16. Rouge77 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2005
    star 5
    Anyway, it was a decision they did relatively early on, and I think it was before off-house testing began. I don't think they would have cut away huge amounts of already done content, but something probably did go. There doesn't seem to be that much text to be read on those bonus quests, just the bare necessaries, and all quests that would have even the normal World of Warcraft -type amount of quest text seem to be voiced.
  17. Corusca_One Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2005
    star 3
    Weird, plenty of previews I've read have praised how even the smaller quests are given by voiced NPCs?

    Then don't read it? It's optional content. All the important stuff relevant to the plot will be spoken by NPCs or in journal entries.

    "Part of the action"? Not everything can be monologued by an over the top villain or overly enthusiastic ally. You can't discover every mystery in Galactic history upto that point just by treking around a bit. The whole point of the Codex feature is to fill in the bits the game can't cover, and considering how much effort has gone into making the world rich an vibrant and full of voiced NPCs ready to fill in details left right and centre I find it a bit mad that you are suggesting this is a bad thing as far as storytelling goes.

    Did the codex impact badly on Baldur's Gate? Or Dragon Age? Mass Effect? They help expand the storytelling potential of the game far beyond it would have been able previously, and further enrich the world - they are particularly important for a new IP and considering how much BioWare are creating themselves here I think this is almost as good as one.

    I think you will find it is you sir, who are the lazy one. Do you have any idea how much effort is required to make an in-game encyclopedia that is enjoyable for even casual fans (or new fans, see BioWare's new IPs) to read? I just hope there aren't too many people like you in beta testing telling BioWare to remove another brilliant feature.

    As for the VA remark, well as I said earlier how would they do that? Every second person on the street breaking into a monologue detailing the history of a race etc? Some things are best kept in 'books'.
  18. Cronal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    I got no problem with a Codex as its optional and I always loved it as you feel immersed in the setting. Plus, as its optional, those people who dont like it can skip it but I will really enjoy it especially from the amount of content they seem to have put into it which seems to be bigger than a novel. So, quite an achievement I think.
  19. tjace Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2008
    star 4
    It seems to me that this whole excavation of the Valley of the Dark Lords between KOTOR and TOR could explain why the Valley is fairly flat in KOTOR, yet when it's portrayed during the Republic comics, when Quinlan gets that holocron for Dooku, it's all pyramids.
  20. Kalphite Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2009
    star 2
    It's got that pyramid-style look in Jedi Academy as well.

    Really, I'm not to hung up over how Korriban looked in the KotOR games. Essentially a big box with 4 doors -- more of a way of designing the game with deadlines/realistic expectations than what the designers really wanted it to look like.
  21. melkor834 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2009
    star 3
    Dang! That was one awesome video... I may just switch to the SI yet again! :p

    Honestly, that video was awesome and this class looks so sweet. I love how she whispered in to the kings ear and than vanished. Or that sick force push, but the end with the glowing eyes... =P~

    This character seems to have the best story potential, and best of all it seems we will be able to learn more about the ancient Sith!

    I also noticed that Khem Val has "vessel for the master" written in aurebesh on his page. Intresting.
  22. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Vessel for his Master? Oooooh....

    I must admit, the only "catch" with playing a Sith first is that on my first playthroughs I usually like to take the "nice" options, to keep all the characters alive to see if they do anything else later in the game. But in this, there clearly won't be any reload button, so playing the bad guy is actually going to require letting yourself really be the character, as your choices will really matter, no save and reload, so if you choose to whisper in the guy's ear and let him die... there'll be no going back.

    Which is a scary prospect after what happened at the end of ME2 if you let all your companions die. [face_Tongue]
    You've obviously never met Kreia, the woman who would never shut up.:p

    As for the Codex? I rather like it personally. I never usually bother with the data entries in ME or DA as their expanded lore doesn't interest me that much - the main story is all I really care about for those two. In this though? Being able to pause and read something actually might make for a welcome distraction from the grind whilst levelling. It's still an MMO, so there will inevitably be more grind work than an offline game, so being able to essentially pause, open the Codex, and do something else for five minutes is actually rather nice.
  23. sithreaper Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2004
    star 3
    It?s going to be difficult to reconcile.

    The most likely series of events in my opinion is:-

    Pall is the reigning dark lord

    Hord discovers Khem Val and his species

    Hord goes to war with Pall & rival sith lords Karness Muur & XoXaan.

    With Vals aid Hord wins and becomes the reigning dark lord.

    Hord begins to fear Val so he sends him (with a sith lord and armada) to conqueror the republic.

    The Jedi suffering an ass kicking but eventual place Val in stasis on Yavin 4.

    Fast forward to the great hyperspace war, Sadow is on the run when the darkside draws him to Yavin 4 where he discovers Khem Val in stasis perhaps Sadow knows of Val so he doesn?t even dare wake him).

    When Sadow dies the Massassi entomb them together.
  24. Corusca_One Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2005
    star 3
    Kreia is an... exception to the rule, heh. Seriously, that character could have been dreadful in any other hands, but they pulled it off. I could listen to her talk all day.

    And regardless, even she would have struggled to bring across the amount of info the codex will be presenting. Not to mention that it's one thing to listen to Kreia's rather unique ideas on Life, the Force, and everything; but another entirely to hear someone harp on for half an hour about the local wildlife. :p
  25. Ulicus Lit'ari

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2005
    star 6
    Missing out.

    I'd go as far to say that Thedas as a world is more interesting than how the games interpret it.
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