Lit Which Jedi turned Sith has the best downfall/redemption?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Slowpokeking, Dec 15, 2012.

  1. beccatoria Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2006
    star 4
    Rain/Darth Zannah.

    Absolutely devastating, unexpected, but completely understandable in the circumstances. The childlike acceptance that a single act of fury says something about her soul, spilling into an almost adult and anhedonic acceptance of the only thing she believes is left for her, or that she deserves.

    "I'm a killer, too."
  2. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    Yet it's impossible to discount or downplay the importance of the poison, because that's what directly led to his anger getting out of control and him making the decisions he did.

    Also agree with both @ and @, Alema and Zannah both had great falls. Alema being one of my personal favorites, as from the moment Luke first mentioned it you were expecting it (And it was even noted in universe!!) but you were so drawn in by how it might happen. Zannah is truly tragic as she was a child, on her own, surrounded by darkness. She really couldn't have been expected to resist it without any type of training.
    Last edited by DarthJenari, Jan 30, 2013
  3. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

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    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    I really enjoyed the milimetres by milimetres steps into falling we saw Jacen take.

    We all knew where this was heading, but I nonetheless entertained that little hope that he would find the way to do everything he was doing for a good reason.

    That it brought an end to the war, but released Chaos incarnate, was great; a logical series of actions, having an unintended consequence that was far worse. It took a lot of the grey out of Star Wars.
    Jedi_Glover and kataja like this.
  4. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    The problem is Jacen falling is such an absurd idea that I can't see it as anything but a forced attempted to invoke his grandfather, at the cost of so many of my favorite characters, which just doesn't work for me.
  5. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    In Traitor we see him hurling Force lightning about and killing Vong with it, and wounding Vergere with it.
  6. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    I haven't read Traitor in a long time, and I only read it once from the library years ago, but I don't remember anything from the NJO that ever led me to believe he was headed down the path to the dark side.
  7. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    Some of what Vergere says about the Force to Jacen in Traitor contradicts what she said about it to Luke in Destiny's Way.

    There's also a lot of metaphor in Traitor at the end about the galaxy as a garden, him as the gardener, and the Vong as weeds. Jello was quick to condemn similar language from Pellaeon in Destiny's Way as fascist.

    A case can be made that the subtext is there if you look closely- though hindsight may be 20-20.
    kataja likes this.
  8. Minez01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2005
    star 1
    Pre TOR, I liked Revan's story the best. His downfall and redemption weren't exactly the best in terms of reasoning and character development, but I loved the story surrounding the whole thing (until they released the Revan novel though). I thought Anakin's downfall should have been much more powerful and effective, however IMO the prequels portrayal of him made the whole process rather flat and uninspiring.
  9. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    I thought the novelization handled Anakin's fall a bit better than the movie.

    Palpatine truly feels like a devilish tempter in that one.
    rumsmuggler likes this.
  10. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    I like A'Sharard Hett's slow decline and eventual rise into Darth Krayt. It's too bad they made Vergere out be evil instead of being an ambiguous trickster and manipulator.
  11. Karohalva Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2008
    star 2
    Ajunta Pall. He gets redeemed as a ghost.
  12. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    Since Ulic Qel Droma has already been mentioned, I'll go with Yuthura Ban. Rather nice little redemption she had going on there.

    Until Malak nuked Dantooine.
  13. Skywalker_T-65 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2009
    star 6
    Revan. By far I go for Revan. Not only is he redeemed himself, but he goes around redeeming other Sith.








    (A note: I don't acknowledge TOR/TOR: Revan. I only go from KOTOR I and II)
  14. LarryG Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    Vestara for me. When Luke agreed to start training her, she was a jedi in a sense. She even believed it herself. Things came undone because of the crazy situation, of course. There had not been enough calm time to let any new training take root over the old training. But when Luke was in her mind, I would like to think he left a little seed in her mind that will bother her conscience enough to strive for redemption.
    kataja likes this.
  15. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    In a sense, he places the seed for one more Sith Redemption in TOR: Revan- that of Scourge. It's just that Scourge waits until the time is right, to reveal it.
  16. thesevegetables Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    Ulic Qel-Droma!
    And maybe Ventress, although she wasn't very Jedi-ish.
  17. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    She was training under a Jedi before he was killed. That started her fall. You probably knew that already though.
    Last edited by rumsmuggler, Jan 31, 2013
  18. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

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    Nov 15, 2004
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    Yeah, but Pellaeon could killed himself on his sword and Jello would have simply commented that it wasn't soon enough. Little bit biased there.

    Could it be that Vergere gave a different spiel to Luke on purpose?
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  19. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    What would that be?

    The "Vergere wants Jacen darker" interpretation would be that she gave a different spiel to Luke, in order to obscure the fact that she was already a Gray Jedi at best.

    Not sure what more innocent explanations could be plausible.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Feb 1, 2013
  20. Sn4tcH Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2004
    star 4
    Maybe I just have this idea of the Force that's very black and white, but I saw Jacen's fall coming closer closer every moment that Vergere remained alive. I thought the Potentium ideology was a sickness, and by the time Dark Nest began, I felt like my opinion had been proven correct. So, for me Jacens fall may have its flaws, but I saw it coming since Traitor.
    Last edited by Sn4tcH, Feb 1, 2013
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  21. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    Vergere's view wasn't exactly the Potentium- she acknowledged the existence of "the dark" in Traitor- but insisted it comes from within.
  22. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    How is that different from the Potentium? In both cases the dark side of the Force is denied.
  23. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    Possibly that the Potentium-believers said "The force is inherently good" and even "there is no such thing as evil acts- only evil intentions"


    The Unifying Force theory said the Force was Neutral.
  24. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    Potentium users aren't usually Sith candidates that flee from assassins after failing to kill the Dark Lord. ;)
  25. LarryG Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 1
    And it didn't help that there were no adults alive except Bane that she could emulate. A child alone having to follow the only one available to offer sustenance.