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Topic:
Should the phrase "under God" be taken out of the United States Pledge of Allegiance?
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Jansons_Loving_Twin
Registered:
Feb '03
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Date Posted:
2/13/03 4:03pm
Subject:
RE: Should the phrase "under God" be taken out of the United States Pledge of Allegiance?
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Taking out "under God" will not stop those of you who believe in a god from believing in one, will it? You still have the right to worship a god at home or at church.
And keeping "Under God" will not make you believe in a god, will it? You'll still ave the right to not believe in one.
Why should I be subjected to religious references in my government?
And why should my tax dollars go to, say, abortion? That's the thing about democracy, the majority rules.
p.s. Please don't take me for someone who sits around all day and makes this argument my life mission. I just like some friendy discussion about the subject. In the overall scheme of things, this is not a big deal! 
And don't take me to be a right-wing relious zealot. Those guys creep me out too.
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Master-Jedi-Smith
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
2/13/03 4:16pm
Subject:
RE: Should the phrase "under God" be taken out of the United States Pledge of Allegiance?
- Date Edited:
2/13/03 4:19pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Master-Jedi-Smith
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Great to see we are on the same page as to the importance of this topic! 
As for:
That's the thing about democracy, the majority rules.
If that was the case, Al Gore would be president(  ), women would not have equal rights,and segregation would still be going on in the South.
That's the great thing about the Constitution, it protects my right to not believe in a God as much as it protects your right to believe in a God.
When it comes to personal rights, the majority most certainly does not rule.
Latre!
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"The majority in a democracy has no more the right to tyrannize
over the minority than, under a different system, the latter would
to oppress the former."
------T.R.
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Jansons_Loving_Twin
Registered:
Feb '03
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Date Posted:
2/13/03 4:32pm
Subject:
RE: Should the phrase "under God" be taken out of the United States Pledge of Allegiance?
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If that was the case, Al Gore would be president( ), women would not have equal rights,and segregation would still be going on in the South.
I said they rule, not that they're always right.
That's the great thing about the Constitution, it protects my right to not believe in a God as much as it protects your right to believe in a God.
When it comes to personal rights, the majority most certainly does not rule.
That's the thing though, to remove it would be to (appearently) impinge on my rights to worship God. Not removing it would (appearently) impinge on your rights to not worship a god. Who's rights overrides the other's?
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Master-Jedi-Smith
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
2/13/03 4:46pm
Subject:
RE: Should the phrase "under God" be taken out of the United States Pledge of Allegiance?
- Date Edited:
2/13/03 4:54pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Master-Jedi-Smith
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You are exactly right! 
Who's rights are/would be infringed upon?
When the POA was first created, there was no reference to "God".
In the mid-50's, President Eisenhower signed it into the POA after being lobbied by religious individuals. This was also seen as being a "good thing" in order to separate the U.S. from the non-believing communist Russians.
I don't remember seeing anywhere that the country got to decide this issue, (granted, they probably would have voted for it.)
It appears to me that a minority wanted "under God" in the POA, and it was also used for political and patriotic reasons as well.
If we took out "under God" and reverted back to the original version, it would be neutral.
What's wrong with a neutral POA? You sure wouldn't want a POA that said "one nation, not under a god because I don't believe in one" would you?
Just as I don't like having one that says "under God."
Take out all reference of a god, and it is, to reference someone earlier, PC.
Latre!
Edit: I just saw that I was referencing you! 
-----signature-----
"The majority in a democracy has no more the right to tyrannize
over the minority than, under a different system, the latter would
to oppress the former."
------T.R.
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Jansons_Loving_Twin
Registered:
Feb '03
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Date Posted:
2/13/03 4:52pm
Subject:
RE: Should the phrase "under God" be taken out of the United States Pledge of Allegiance?
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Well, I see it as something of a national tradition now, and should be left that way. Then again, I am biased.
Also, I hate doing things just to make everything PC.
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Master-Jedi-Smith
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
2/13/03 4:56pm
Subject:
RE: Should the phrase "under God" be taken out of the United States Pledge of Allegiance?
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Now that is something I agree with you on!
(The PC part I mean. )
Latre!
-----signature-----
"The majority in a democracy has no more the right to tyrannize
over the minority than, under a different system, the latter would
to oppress the former."
------T.R.
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bedada3
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
2/28/03 12:52am
Subject:
RE: Should the phrase "under God" be taken out of the United States Pledge of Allegiance?
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I don't think the phrase is appropriate, but the early-mid '00s is not a good time to argue about it.
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Lookin' for Baby Jesus under the trash... (U2)
How much faith does one need to see the universe came from a superior entity?
How much faith doesn't one need to see that life came from non-life?
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Ian_Ball
Registered:
Sep '01
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Date Posted:
2/28/03 8:52pm
Subject:
RE: Should the phrase "under God" be taken out of the United States Pledge of Allegiance?
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yes.
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Master-Jedi-Smith
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
3/1/03 1:08pm
Subject:
RE: Should the phrase "under God" be taken out of the United States Pledge of Allegiance?
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Here's a post (not the whole post though) by Cheveyo that I copied from the Senete Floor in the Separation of Church and State thread. I thought it would be appropriate here as well.
Enjoy.
An interesting article from cnn.com:
Appeals court refuses to reconsider Pledge of Allegiance decision:
A snipet from the article...
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- A federal appeals court Friday rejected the Bush administration's request to reconsider its decision that the Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional because of the phrase "under God."
The ruling means the case could go to the Supreme Court. In Washington, a Justice Department spokesman said no decision has been made about whether to appeal the ruling there.
The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said it would not accept any other petitions to reconsider last June's ruling by a three-judge panel that the pledge is unconstitutional when recited in public classrooms.
And here is a quote from Judge Alfred T. Goodwin:
"The recitation that ours is a nation 'under God' is not a mere acknowledgment that many Americans believe in a deity. Nor is it merely descriptive of the undeniable historical significance of religion in the founding of the Republic. Rather, the phrase 'one nation under God' in the context of the Pledge is normative. To recite the Pledge is not to describe the United States; instead, it is to swear allegiance to the values for which the flag stands: unity, indivisibility, liberty, justice, and -- since 1954 -- monotheism. The text of the official Pledge, codified in federal law, impermissibly takes a position with respect to the purely religious question of the existence and identity of God. A profession that we are a nation 'under God' is identical, for Establishment Clause purposes, to a profession that we are a nation 'under Jesus,' a nation 'under Vishnu,' a nation 'under Zeus,' or a nation 'under no god,' because none of these professions can be neutral with respect to religion."
Latre!
-----signature-----
"The majority in a democracy has no more the right to tyrannize
over the minority than, under a different system, the latter would
to oppress the former."
------T.R.
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MyDebateSock
Registered:
Feb '03
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Date Posted:
3/3/03 3:07am
Subject:
RE: Should the phrase "under God" be taken out of the United States Pledge of Allegiance?
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Just don't say it if you don't feel like it. I'm going to say it for the rest of my life.
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This is my sock for debates.
Because I don't want to be flamed.
And I'm afraid I will be.
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JediMasterCheGuevara
Registered:
Apr '03
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Date Posted:
4/21/03 12:38am
Subject:
RE: Should the phrase "under God" be taken out of the United States Pledge of Allegiance?
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I don't think we should be made to pledge allegiance.
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Keep it locked up inside your heart, released only in small portions to be beheld by others when the sand is blown against your sheer white turban in the sunset, wind in the palms behind you!
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DarthSapient
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
4/21/03 7:48am
Subject:
RE: Should the phrase "under God" be taken out of the United States Pledge of Allegiance?
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Technically, yes it should although I would be disappointed if it were.
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yodashizzzle
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
4/21/03 11:30am
Subject:
RE: Should the phrase "under God" be taken out of the United States Pledge of Allegiance?
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i screw up the words to songs i sing along with, so i think it really doesn't matter if it's left in or taken out. i also tend to recite exceptionally poorly, so reciting the pledge for me would involve skipping a few words here and there regardless.
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Jedi_Benji
Registered:
Oct '02
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Date Posted:
4/22/03 12:57am
Subject:
RE: Should the phrase "under God" be taken out of the United States Pledge of Allegiance?
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Yea i do!
<---- Is Athiest
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obaona
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
4/22/03 3:38am
Subject:
RE: Should the phrase "under God" be taken out of the United States Pledge of Allegiance?
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No.
Anyway, how does 'under God' oppress or otherwise cause you to do something you don't want? Separation of church and state does not mean any religion, of any kind, should not be mentioned anywhere, ever, having to do with the government. How people think that is beyond me.
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atty is the bestest! MS Word is designed by sadists with masochists in mind.  - teh atty
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