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Topic:
Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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Lord_Hydronium
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
1/2/03 11:15pm
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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One question, can someone tell me how the hell the Stormie in ANH banging his head on the Death Star is related to Jango Fett? So what if they both hit their heads, wowza that means without a doubt they have to be clones.
Lucas states in the AOTC commentary that Jango's head bang is meant to show that the STs got their "head-banging gene" from him, since they are his clones. While the "head-banging gene" idea is completely not scientific, and you can take it or leave it, the fact remains that it's meant to show that one is the clone of the other.
(And Punisher, before you start thinking this is one of those other "meant to"s, keep in mind that Jango is CG in this scene, so it is entirely intentional in this case)
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DarthLassic007
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
1/3/03 1:15am
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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Gee, Jango banged his head and a stormtrooper over 20 years later banged his head. Hmmmmmm yup that's definate proof that the stormtroopers are clones. Hey, Luke banged his head on Yoda's ceiling. Luke must be a Jango clone as well. Face it, all you cloners can't proove a thing.
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Obi-Ewan
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
1/3/03 1:36am
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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Lucas says they're clones, how's that for definitive proof?
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Lars_Muul
Registered:
Oct '00
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Date Posted:
1/3/03 2:17am
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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The head-banging thing is there as a little joke, a nod to whatever-the-name-of-that-stormtrooper-extra-in-ANH-is, plus something that could be interpreted as something genetic. Still, as a joke.
But it´s only really funny if you know that the stormtroopers are clones!
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Warlord_Ken
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
1/3/03 2:48am
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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DarthLassic007:
Gee, Jango banged his head and a stormtrooper over 20 years later banged his head. Hmmmmmm yup that's definate proof that the stormtroopers are clones. Hey, Luke banged his head on Yoda's ceiling. Luke must be a Jango clone as well. Face it, all you cloners can't proove a thing.
LOL! And it's even funnier how you call people "you cloners"! 
Anyway, it's ridiculous to think that banging heads is some kind of genetic trait that can be inherited. Yes, it's possible, but everyone's banged their head once or twice before. Plus, we have no idea how often Jango or that stormtrooper in ANH bang their heads.
However, GL has said that the clones go on to be stormtroopers. That doesn't mean that all the stormtroopers are clones, but all the clones are stormtroopers. You see?
If GL doesn't put it on the books for Ep. III, I'm not accepting it. How can you use the words of some guy in the Milky Way as canon for the GFFA?
Stormtroopers can be grown on Carida, and trained there - it'd be like another Kamino.
But if that's the case, why didn't anyone - Grand Adm. Thrawn in particular - use that? Maybe all the cloning equipment was destroyed at the end of teh Clone Wars, and so while the clones became stormies, all new stormies had to be recruits.
As for the name "stormtroopers", I always thought of it as a knock-off of Hitler's Gestapo (the troopers were called "stormtroopers"). The name was supposed to mean troopers that storm enemy bases, or something.
But another possibility is that the "stormtroopers" come from a planet that has many storms - Kamino!
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Lars_Muul
Registered:
Oct '00
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Date Posted:
1/3/03 2:51am
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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why didn't anyone - Grand Adm. Thrawn in particular - use that?
Because that´s EU and should not be taken into account while we´re discussing film events.
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Punisher
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
1/3/03 3:32am
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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I guess this means that Jango, the Clonetroopers and the Stormtroopers were all headbangers!
I wonder if they were into Metallica?
(Btw, Jango could have meant to NOT hit his head originally... we don't have a Archival Version yet....)
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Obi-Ewan
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
1/3/03 6:36am
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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However, GL has said that the clones go on to be stormtroopers. That doesn't mean that all the stormtroopers are clones, but all the clones are stormtroopers. You see?
You have it backwards. He doesn't say clones are stormtroopers. He does in fact say stormtroopers are clones, and although it may be hard to believe, that quote is meant to be taken literally.
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MeBeJedi
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
1/3/03 8:04am
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
- Date Edited:
1/3/03 8:08am (3 edits total)
Edited By:
MeBeJedi
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Okay, Obi. Mind if I take this one?
If GL doesn't put it on the books for Ep. III, I'm not accepting it. How can you use the words of some guy in the Milky Way as canon for the GFFA?
If you're referring to George Lucas, I have to say this. He may not the the only word, or even the best word on this subject (he has made some bad choices). However, he is the last word, since Star Wars is his baby.
Anyway, it's ridiculous to think that banging heads is some kind of genetic trait that can be inherited.
It is ridiculous, if you take it as a scientific fact. You must realize that Lucas meant this as a clue to those fans who know of (and accept the fact that) the stormtrooper in ANH bumped his head. I've seen animated GIFs showing this on other threads, and people still don't believe it happened. Again, all the facts in the world can't shake a personal belief.
But if that's the case, why didn't anyone - Grand Adm. Thrawn in particular - use that?
Thrawn used Spaarti(?) chambers to clone a Jedi. Have you even read the books? Now, whether or not the Kaminoans used these, it's not shown in the movies. I would guess that Lucas decided not to name the technology in AOTC, so that AOTC and the Thrawn Tilogy could co-exist. (Don't bug me about EU influencing GL. I know it doesn't control his decisions, but he has used pieces of it when it suits him.)
keep in mind that Jango is CG in this scene, so it is entirely intentional in this case
That's a perfect point. Can any of you "non-cloners"  explain why Lucas would have a CG Fett bang his head? This would be a simple fix, and left as it is, doesn't make any sense otherwise.
See, Obi. I'm not a staunch advocate of trooper recruitment. It would certainly help the non-cloners arguments if they used better reasoning than...
So what if they both hit their heads, wowza that means without a doubt they have to be clones.
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Errant_Venture
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '02
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Date Posted:
1/3/03 8:24am
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
- Date Edited:
1/3/03 8:26am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Errant_Venture
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Yeah well, when you cloners declare that they both hit their heads and that's a sign of them being clones. That's not very good reasoning to believe in clones, in my opinion.
George Lucas's word is not canon. When he give's insights into his works of art, that's his opinion or interpretation of the work. It's the same thing that authors and painters do, they have their opinion, but they leave it open for others to interpret it a different way.
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Lars_Muul
Registered:
Oct '00
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Date Posted:
1/3/03 8:33am
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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Then I don´t understand why you choose to interpret it in the more complicated way.
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MeBeJedi
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
1/3/03 8:35am
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
- Date Edited:
1/3/03 8:41am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
MeBeJedi
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George Lucas's word is not canon.
WHAT!?!?!?!?
Where on Earth do you get THAT?
If your whole argument is based on the fact that the one person who actually makes the movies has no relevant say in what his movies mean, then you are simply grasping at straws.
This goes beyond using EU.
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Yoda - "Do or do not, there is no essay." The Matrix - "There is no essay"
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MeBeJedi
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
1/3/03 8:44am
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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BTW, I notice you didn't step and explain what other possible interpretation could be made by Jango hitting his head. That's curious...
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Yoda - "Do or do not, there is no essay." The Matrix - "There is no essay"
O-OT on DVD - "Mr. Lucas... we are merely passing THROUGH history. This... this IS history."
http://www.originaltrilogy.com
Reality got in the way of the essay. Relax
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Errant_Venture
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '02
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Date Posted:
1/3/03 9:16am
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
- Date Edited:
1/3/03 9:23am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Errant_Venture
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You want my opinion of Jango hitting his head? Fine, I think it was a tie in between the Stormy in ANH, a little comic relief thing, that only hardcore SW fans would understand or even notice. I do not think however that it means they are clones.
My interpretation might be a bit more complicated, but at least it's my own opinion on the subject. If you think that all Stormies are clones, then that's fine with me. However if you choose to accept that just because Lucas said in a commentary that they are clones is another thing. I don't have a problem believing that some of the Stormies are clones, but all of them? Even if I did not read and follow the EU, I would still think that way.
I can't even fathom the cost that an army of clones would cost, but I am almost positive that it would be much more expensive than raising an army of billions.
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SirLancelot
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
1/3/03 11:06am
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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George Lucas's word is not canon.
WHAT!?!?!?!?
Where on Earth do you get THAT?
i believe he is correct. nothing GL says could be considered 'canon'. only movkies are absolute, followed by EU, which is accepted continuality. no where is it said that GL's word is to be considered canon
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