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Topic:
Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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Obi-Ewan
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
1/4/03 2:35pm
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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I think the stormtroopers ARE clones but the officers who faces can be seen are men who excel in their field of expertise are selected through the academys.
Someone I actually agree with. The only people I've ever said were clones were stormtroopers. The officers aren't clones, otherwise Ozzel would look like Tarkin who would look like Piett, etc.
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"I am very concerned about our national heritage, and I am very concerned that the films that I watched when I was young and the films that I watched throughout my life are preserved, so that my children can see them."
--George Lucas
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StormTrooper26
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
1/4/03 2:43pm
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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I think think that the Stormtroopers and the clonetroopers are basically the samething. The only difference is that being a stormtrooper is your choice.
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BKhayes
Registered:
Oct '02
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Date Posted:
1/4/03 3:23pm
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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Well, i like the idea that the clones of the OT, if they are clones, could come from a different individual will explain, why they are so different from the PT clones.
but unless ep. 3 tells us otherwise.
Clone Troopers, Boba Fett, Jango Fett, and Storm Troopers are all the same person physically and genetically and so on. I think that if they don't deal w/ this in episode. 3 they or GL should consider re-dubbing the voices of Boba and The Storm Toopers w/ the actor who plays jango in the PT
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TK_Four_Two_One
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
1/4/03 3:26pm
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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Maybe they do get a different template for the stormtrooper clones. I'm sure it wouldnt be too hard to find others. Maybe Jar-Jar!!! 
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Agent7788
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
1/4/03 4:49pm
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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I think Kamino will be destroyed in Episode 3 so the Empire needs to draft and recruit fresh faces but they still whould have many of the Clone Troopers around but no where near as many there were during the beginning of the Clone Wars
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Obi-Ewan
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
1/4/03 7:06pm
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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GL should consider re-dubbing the voices of Boba and The Storm Toopers w/ the actor who plays jango in the PT
What nitpicking. Why not replace Alec Guinness with Ewan McGregor, Phil Brown with Joel Edgerton, and Shelag Fraser with Bonnie Piesse. While you're at it, replace Clive Revill with Ian McDiarmid and Sebastian Shaw with Hayden Christensen. Oh, wait. Someone actually wants that one too.
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"I am very concerned about our national heritage, and I am very concerned that the films that I watched when I was young and the films that I watched throughout my life are preserved, so that my children can see them."
--George Lucas
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MeBeJedi
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
1/5/03 8:41am
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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If the stroomtroopers in ANH are the clones from AOTC, I would imagine that Lucas was hoping the fact that similar white suits would be enough to convey that fact.
When you consider the shoestring budget and time constraints of make Star Wars, Lucas just didn't have the time or resources to make every extra the same height. (However, he could have dubbed the same voice for each one. The voices are post-production.)
I can't help but notice the absence of Warlord_Ken. Perhaps he's working on his grand master of an alternate viable theory? Hmmmmm.
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Yoda - "Do or do not, there is no essay." The Matrix - "There is no essay"
O-OT on DVD - "Mr. Lucas... we are merely passing THROUGH history. This... this IS history."
http://www.originaltrilogy.com
Reality got in the way of the essay. Relax
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Warlord_Ken
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
1/8/03 5:21pm
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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Not really, MeBeJedi. All I can say about my absence is this: School sucks.
MeBeJedi:
True, but none of these contributions go into the movie unless Lucas says so. If he feels that a suggestion does not fit in his universe, then it doesn't go in the movie. Are you trying to tell me that someone else can go over Lucas' head about what should be in the movies? This is not Congress, where a two-thirds majority vote overrides Lucas' veto.
Well that may be true, but IMO Lucas should include EU authors' works in his movies, for continuity's sake, rather than rudely elbow them aside. Besides, if he's so stubborn about "his" precious galaxy, why did he approve the works in the first place?
Maybe I should have typed this part slower for you. IT'S NOT TO BE TAKEN AS A FACT. It is an inside joke, like Burt Reynolds smiling at the camera in the Smokey and the Bandit films.
Here's another good example. There's a scene where you can barely see 3 tie fighters chasing an x-wing through the skies of Coruscant. Does this mean that the Imperial Forces are already attacking the Rebel Alliance? No, because it's just a JOKE!
Lucas is allowed to have fun with his movies, with cameos and what-not. Think of all the THX and 1138 visual and audio jokes in the films! You are taking these facts and movies WAY too seriously.
I'm not. The people who are trying to use the head-banging thing as evidence that stormtroopers are clonetroopers are.
I'm refuting the pathetic idea that two people who happen to bump their heads must be related.
It's ironic that you use a made-up example to diminish Lucas' position to the Star Wars films. Lucas, like any other person, makes mistakes. Lucas, like any other person, changes his mind from time to time. When Lucas talks about his films, he is telling you what he did and why he did it. For you to say "That's not what he meant" is pretty damn funny. What if I used that logic against you?
All I'm saying is that what is said off-screen and off-novel cannot be considered canon.
I'm sure what you meant to say was that the events of the EU are tied with the movies, since the movies came before the EU. Otherwise, people prior to 1977 would already know that Vader was Luke's father, etc.
They're tied with each other. How's that?
Basically, they, together, constitute ONE saga, and thus should never contradict each other.
Obviously, you are talking about the clones who were first created, making fun of all that later batches. The "older" clones were acting like Dr. Seuss' The Sneetches, when it was clear that they are all the same.
See, this can be done to anyone. Notice that your comments were taken out of context, and can be construed to mean anything. The fact that you are able to do this to Lucas' statements does not necessarily raise your arguments above his facts.
I'm having a hard time understanding what you're saying. Are you saying that having unique histories does not negate the supposition that ALL stormtroopers are clones? I suppose it doesn't, but consider that all the clonetroopers underwent similar lifestyles.
By this reasoning, you must be saying that Jango Fett, the "greatest bounty hunter" in the galaxy, knowingly uses a defective helmet, despite the fact that ALL of the rest of his equipment is top notch.In addition to this, knowing that the Jango Fett in this scene is CG, you must be saying that Lucas deliberatily demonstrated this fact by making the CG character hit his head on the door, exactly like the trooper in ANH. Ironically, Boba Fett, being a clone and raised by Jango, would obviously be aware of this problem, yet continues to use this same helmet.
I never said that the helmet is defective. All I said was that it limits the wearer's field of vision.
All equipment have their strengths and weaknesses. No helmet can be considered "perfect". I'm sure that Jango's has its own strengths and weaknesses, and he and Boba have their reasons for preferring them.
I never said what GL's motives were. Please don't put words in my mouth.
Finally, his own reasons notwithstanding, Boba Fett made some of the same mistakes his father did. Going out of his way to mess with Jedi, for one. Doing this cost both Fetts their lives (well, not so much for Boba, but it give him a lot of grief).
Maybe you feel that Anakin and Padme getting married in the PT and Vader having children in the OT is another one of those "coincidences" that you like to exploit to suit your needs?
What are you talking about?
Anakin and Padme got married.
Anakin later has kids.
Whose the mother? TECHNICALLY, we don't know. Speculation points almost incontrovertibly at Padme, but we still don't have any conclusive evidence.
presumably with the reasoning that "Lucas hasn't said otherwise" (I say "presumably" based on 1) your prior arguments and 2) the fact that you don't explain or qualify your comment at all.
You assume too much. You assume that just because Anakin and Padme got married that they'll have kids. You also assume that those kids will be Luke and Leia Skywalker. While I assume that Padme is the mother for Luke and Leia, I will not go on record as stating that as a fact until we see for sure in Episode III.
Maybe we see things differently. You seem to assume that everything happens unless GL says otherwise. I prefer to assume that nothing happens unless GL or EU authors say so.
Lars_Muul:
Warlord_Ken: Think of the EU as an alternate Star Wars universe. It can contradict the films sometimes, but separate EU stories can´t contradict eachother.
In the EU, people still make references to events depicted in the movies, proving that the "two universes" are indeed connected.
<Looks at your sig> Btw, at this rate, SW soon won't have much on quality anymore.
Obi-Ewan:
and many have said that no matter what happens in Episode III, they will continue to believe that recruitment happens anyway, which means it has to happen off screen, since it won't be in the movies.
And what if it appears in an EU, GL-approved novel? What then?
At any rate, an interview with GL is as much "off screen" as the EU.
Someone I actually agree with. The only people I've ever said were clones were stormtroopers. The officers aren't clones, otherwise Ozzel would look like Tarkin who would look like Piett, etc.
Unless they were cloned from different sources.
Die_Jedi_Dogs:
Stormtroopers have to be clones. There are so many of them, they may be from different templates but yes they are all clones. Now all the officers and pilots and unmasked folks, well those are people that the Empire recruited/drafted.
The Empire's pilots are masked too.
And while you may think after watching the OT that there were many stormtroopers, there actually weren't. Stormies were the Empire's "elite military branch", and compared to the entire population of the Empire, or even the rest of the Imperial military, stormtroopers didn't constitute that big of a part.
I'm willing to accept that some, many, or most stormtroopers were clones. But, considering EU, I doubt that all were.
And since we can say that EU and the movies are in the same SW galaxy and time period, they are indeed one single story.
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Anakin Solo and friendship:
“What are we, Anakin? A year ago you were my best friend in the world.”
“We’re still best friends.”
“Then the way you treat your other friends must really stink.”
“Yeah…”
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MeBeJedi
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
1/8/03 5:42pm
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
- Date Edited:
1/8/03 5:45pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
MeBeJedi
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stormtroopers didn't constitute that big of a part.
You might want to count the number of troopers you see in all the films, and compare that to the cumulative number of non-troopers. Troopers will definitely outnumber.
I'm not gonna beat you over the head about EU vs. Movies. You put them on the same level (same universe, to be exact), while I see them as gravy (after-the-fact speculation, in relation to the the films, but enjoyable, nonetheless.)
FWIW, I had another post further explaining this reasoning. If you're interested, you can look it up. I'm not going to quote it here.
EU vs. Movie post
P.S. Still haven't seen that alterative theory on why Lucas would have a CG Boba Fett hit his head! It's getting kinda suspicious. 
I guess no one's up to that challenge...
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Yoda - "Do or do not, there is no essay." The Matrix - "There is no essay"
O-OT on DVD - "Mr. Lucas... we are merely passing THROUGH history. This... this IS history."
http://www.originaltrilogy.com
Reality got in the way of the essay. Relax
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GrandAdmiralJello
Title:
Emperor
• EUC
• JCC
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
1/8/03 5:51pm
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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Oh? Perhaps having 1138 on the back of clonetrooper helmets must also have some sort of mystical canon significance?
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MeBeJedi
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
1/8/03 6:04pm
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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Still doesn't answer my question....
BTW, Warlord_Ken, since you like EU, are you reading New Jedi Order? If so, how far along are you?
-----signature-----
Yoda - "Do or do not, there is no essay." The Matrix - "There is no essay"
O-OT on DVD - "Mr. Lucas... we are merely passing THROUGH history. This... this IS history."
http://www.originaltrilogy.com
Reality got in the way of the essay. Relax
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Obi-Ewan
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
1/8/03 7:35pm
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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George Lucas allowing other writers to write novels based on his universe is akin to Stan Lee allowing filmmakers to make movies about the X-Men, Spider-Man, DareDevil, or the Hulk.
Patrick Stewart's Professor X may make reference to being friends with Ian McKellen's Magneto, but that establishes a similarity in a parallel universe, not that the films happen in the same continuity as the comics.
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"I am very concerned about our national heritage, and I am very concerned that the films that I watched when I was young and the films that I watched throughout my life are preserved, so that my children can see them."
--George Lucas
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Warlord_Ken
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
1/9/03 12:57pm
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
- Date Edited:
1/9/03 1:00pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Warlord_Ken
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MeBeJedi:
You might want to count the number of troopers you see in all the films, and compare that to the cumulative number of non-troopers. Troopers will definitely outnumber.
Again, EU vs. movies. In the EU, it is said that stormtroopers are the elite arm and that only the select "few" (relatively speaking) get stormtroopership.
I'm not gonna beat you over the head about EU vs. Movies. You put them on the same level (same universe, to be exact), while I see them as gravy (after-the-fact speculation, in relation to the the films, but enjoyable, nonetheless.)
FWIW, I had another post further explaining this reasoning. If you're interested, you can look it up. I'm not going to quote it here.
Thank you.
P.S. Still haven't seen that alterative theory on why Lucas would have a CG Boba Fett hit his head! It's getting kinda suspicious.
I guess no one's up to that challenge...
As you said, the Jango Fett head-bumping was an inside joke.
What is this challenge you speak of?
BTW, Warlord_Ken, since you like EU, are you reading New Jedi Order? If so, how far along are you?
I do read and enjoy the NJO. And I've read Destiny's Way and everything preceding it (except for Ylesia).
EDIT: The link doesn't work.
-----signature-----
Anakin Solo and friendship:
“What are we, Anakin? A year ago you were my best friend in the world.”
“We’re still best friends.”
“Then the way you treat your other friends must really stink.”
“Yeah…”
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duck_boy
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
1/9/03 2:28pm
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
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dude u have no idea what your even talking about. i dount that bum lucas even new he would have clone troopers at that point so the idea was developed later so infact i think you will find clone troopers to be stormtroopers
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MeBeJedi
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
1/9/03 4:20pm
Subject:
RE: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers
- Date Edited:
1/9/03 4:29pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
MeBeJedi
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Here's the link
"Old Trilogy Had Clones, but not the same as Prequel Trilogy", last page
http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=9000456&page=8
(it worked for me)
"I guess no one's up to that challenge..."
As you said, the Jango Fett head-bumping was an inside joke.
What is this challenge you speak of?
I want you to explain to me what the joke means!
I say that it's a reference to the trooper that hits his head in ANH, to show a link.
I'm curious to know what you think the CG Fett hitting his head represents. This is a deliberate symbol, sound effects and all.
That being said...
Perhaps having 1138 on the back of clonetrooper helmets must also have some sort of mystical canon significance?
I never mentioned canon about this, but 1138 is also an inside joke on the part of the Lucasfilm crew. This is in a similar vein to the scene where an x-wing is being chased by TIEs in the city of Coruscant. This is also commented on during the commentary.
EU: I've just started Rebel Stand. I love this series 
EDIT:
dude u have no idea what your even talking about.
Duck boy, I'm not sure who you are talking to, or what you're trying to say. If Lucas didn't know that he would have clones, then why would the stormtroopers be clones? BTW, Lucas mentioned the Clone wars in ANH. Now, whether or not the "clones" he mentioned referred to the clonetroopers (and, eventually stormtroopers) is apparently up for debate.
-----signature-----
Yoda - "Do or do not, there is no essay." The Matrix - "There is no essay"
O-OT on DVD - "Mr. Lucas... we are merely passing THROUGH history. This... this IS history."
http://www.originaltrilogy.com
Reality got in the way of the essay. Relax
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