Jedi Council Forums - Overcritical Han Shoots First

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Author	Topic: Overcritical Han Shoots First
superxero Registered: Feb '04	Date Posted: 12/28/04 7:44pm Subject: Overcritical Han Shoots First
	I read this and started to think about something: "In the scene above Han Solo, cornered by the bounty hunter Greedo, has little choice other than to shoot first and ask questions later. This scene established Han as an ice-cool space pirate; as someone who walked a fine line between good and evil (thereby making the evolution of his character all the more interesting)." Did everyone wait to come to this conclusion until after Lucas changed the scene, or was this pretty much concluded to be Han Solo's character among Star Wars fans before 1997? I'm just wondering how many people are having fits over losing something they may not have adknowledged in the first place.
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Chaotic_Serenity Registered: Oct '04	Date Posted: 12/28/04 7:57pm Subject: RE: Overcritical Han Shoots First - Date Edited: 12/28/04 7:58pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Chaotic_Serenity
	Heheh, welcome to the Star Wars fandom. People will find everything and anything to whine about. But to stay more on topic, I'm going to say after. Hell, I never even noticed (...or cared) who shot first until it was brought up. And I never could figure out why it was a big issue. IMO, I always thought Greedo was supposed to be somewhat incompetent, so him missing made sense. But, eh, some fan out there feels the need to read into it so they can rant and rave. -----signature----- Part of the Darth Vader Fanclub. Because good is dumb. The ability to bash a movie does not make one intelligent. Sith for '08: Why vote for a less oppressive regime?
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AdamBertocci Title: Manager: Fan Films Registered: Feb '02	Date Posted: 12/28/04 8:09pm Subject: RE: Overcritical Han Shoots First
	I actually didn't notice any change until it was pointed out to me, and I couldn't have told you who shot first until it got changed... I think, though, that people do tend to suddenly make their reactions all about the change when the change occurs. To read this board, you would think that nothing ever happened in these movies except for the cantina, the Ewok music and the ghost of Sebastian Shaw -- everyone seems to want to talk about that, rather than say anything about the film. Similar to the Han "debacle" (lol), I didn't hear one person ever say "boy, Sebastian Shaw is really great at the end of Jedi, I'm glad he makes just the facial expression he does, and that they had his image as the ghost" until the possibility of Hayden replacing him came to light. Rick McCallum loves you! -----signature----- "Run Leia Run", "The Chopped-Off Hands of Star Wars" and "The Fan Film Menace"... ... and now the award-winning "Brooklyn Force". Check 'em out. http://www.runleiarun.com
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Leias_love_slave Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 12/28/04 8:30pm Subject: RE: Overcritical Han Shoots First
	I noticed the change immediately. I wasn't upset, just baffled as to why they would mess with it when it was already good. When someone points a gun at you and says "I'm about to shoot you and I'm really going to enjoy it!"... ...who wouldn't shoot first, if they had the chance? Jesus? -----signature----- "I was Leia's slave-boy." blushes
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KaptainKaos Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 12/28/04 8:32pm Subject: RE: Overcritical Han Shoots First
	They shot at nearly the same time in the new DVD version, that is believable enough. -----signature----- Life is like a noob, you'll never know the full extent of its stupidity.
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NeoBaggins Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 12/28/04 8:34pm Subject: RE: Overcritical Han Shoots First - Date Edited: 12/28/04 8:45pm (6 edits total) Edited By: NeoBaggins
	Han Solo's progression to a more responsable man was obtained through things like blasting bounty hunters before they blast you. A desire to show that he is not a CowBoy, ( in Lucas eyes, a "murderer") , means watching him not shoot at Greedo first to revert back to his CowBoy state 4 seconds later. Lucas uses the "murder" angle to justify a horrible alteration in my opinion. We know that Han doesnt committ murder by blasting Greedo before Greedo could kill him. We also know that Han does not manipulate the Matrix and dodge bullets at pointblank range. Weather some will admit it or not, it is an insult to all fans when Lucas says "WE LIKE to think of Han as a MURDERER because thats hip". He has spoken for "US" and says that we think murder is cool. Then, at the end of his statement, to bring himself above us murder-loving fans, he says "I dont think thats right for people". So now, "WE" excludes himself and is directed at US the fans and it is up to him to show his sheep the right way. Its not the obvious insult that gets me but the fact he formulated the insulting statement to justify the stupid looking alteration. He also gives us a lesson on what murder is, since we do not know. He could have given his REAL reasons for the change weather it be moral or just something willy-nilly he wanted to do. But dont blame the fans because it wasnt accepted by everyone. Dont say we are into murder because you couldnt feed the change to all fans. He even tells us that "Han didnt fire first" and that Greedo shot first "in his mind". Lucas knows there are fans that will take his word as the gospel truth and it is statements like those that are most insulting. Hes telling you what to think and that you didnt see what you thought you saw. -----signature----- You hear that? That's the sound of inevitability. You hear that? That's the A train. You hear that? That's the sound of a thousand terrible things heading this way.
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The2ndQuest Title: Manager: -Literature -LACWAC -Games Registered: Jan '00	Date Posted: 12/28/04 8:37pm Subject: RE: Overcritical Han Shoots First - Date Edited: 12/28/04 8:41pm (1 edits total) Edited By: The2ndQuest
	I actually do recall there being comments often "back in the day" about Shaw's performance- usually when people discussed Anakin's redemption, though other topics did bring up the fatherly impression he gave as well. Anyways- I believe fans did pick up on that aspect of Solo's character originally, since it was part of his character's story arc. It was even touched upon by Brian Daley (who also wrote the Radio Dramas for Lucas ) in one of his Han Solo books from the late 70's (78?) where Han comments something along of the lines that he prefers to shoot first. ::) As for the change, well- it's somewhat of an obvious change in it's SE form, as it was edited in so jarringly and poorly (not to mention cutting off part of Han's line despite his mouth was still moving). It's a little less obvious in the DVD edition however. Still is out of place though (promimity issues aside), since the whole build up in the scene with Han slowly unholstering his weapon while distracting Greedo essentially loses it's payoff. -----signature----- "When your future self tells you to do something, YOU DO IT." K'Kruhk, 140 ABY:"Why haven't I come forth earlier to share my Jedi knowledge with Skywalker? Well, it's kinda a long story, see, I had this freaking sweet hat..."
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BauconBatista Registered: Jun '04	Date Posted: 12/28/04 9:47pm Subject: RE: Overcritical Han Shoots First
	Similar to the Han "debacle" (lol), I didn't hear one person ever say "boy, Sebastian Shaw is really great at the end of Jedi, I'm glad he makes just the facial expression he does, and that they had his image as the ghost" until the possibility of Hayden replacing him came to light. I didn't even know that Shaw was actually Anakin until I heard of the DVD changes... -----signature-----
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Shelley Registered: Sep '01	Date Posted: 12/28/04 9:50pm Subject: RE: Overcritical Han Shoots First
	What Serenity and Adam said. But I guess it makes people feel better to claim that Han's character is completely altered and turned into a wuss by Greedo shooting first, because Han shooting first was central to showing him as a mercenary and the numerous other scenes which show him acting like a mercenary (in one of them, Leia even refers to him as a mercenary -- I could be wrong, but to me, that would seem to be saying it as clearly as it could possibly be said) never happened at all or are magically rendered null and void by Greedo being a lousy shot and Han being a fast dodger. -----signature----- A bona fide conservative exposes Ann Coulter as the liar, bigot, extremist, and hatemonger that she is: http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001939.htm Protect America...impeach Bush.
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Loco_for_Lucas Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 12/28/04 9:55pm Subject: RE: Overcritical Han Shoots First - Date Edited: 12/28/04 9:56pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Loco_for_Lucas
	So if Han is still a mercenary and his characterization remains unaltered, what was the point of the change?
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IVIsStillTheBest Registered: Dec '04	Date Posted: 12/28/04 10:44pm Subject: RE: Overcritical Han Shoots First
	I think the change to the Special Edition of making Han Solo shoot very shortly after Greedo is unnecessary. However, I have never seen the original version, only the Special Edition and DVD, so I can only base this judgment on the concept of the change, not the comparison of the two different scenes themselves. Although I do think that having Han shoot first added something to his character development from "chaotic neutral" to good, to borrow a D&D alignment, I don't find this scene terribly important in the scope of the trilogy. There are many, many other events Han takes part in that are more crucial to his character's evolution than the controversial Mos Eisley Cantina shoot-out. -----signature----- "I find your lack of faith disturbing." - Darth Vader
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The2ndQuest Title: Manager: -Literature -LACWAC -Games Registered: Jan '00	Date Posted: 12/29/04 6:14am Subject: RE: Overcritical Han Shoots First
	>>(in one of them, Leia even refers to him as a mercenary -- I could be wrong, but to me, that would seem to be saying it as clearly as it could possibly be said) -----signature----- "When your future self tells you to do something, YOU DO IT." K'Kruhk, 140 ABY:"Why haven't I come forth earlier to share my Jedi knowledge with Skywalker? Well, it's kinda a long story, see, I had this freaking sweet hat..."
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DarthLassic007 Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 12/29/04 6:47am Subject: RE: Overcritical Han Shoots First
	It was self defense. -----signature----- Veni, Vidi, Vici. - Julius Caesar
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darth_grievous1 Registered: Apr '04	Date Posted: 12/29/04 9:28am Subject: RE: Overcritical Han Shoots First
	It is hard to tell who shoots first. It happened so fast. Grievous -----signature----- Life is meant to lived, not graded. ~ lexu I AM AN ASSASSIN (shh)
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DarthLassic007 Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 12/29/04 9:54am Subject: RE: Overcritical Han Shoots First
	Even in the O-OT it was self defense. -----signature----- Veni, Vidi, Vici. - Julius Caesar
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Sith Magician Registered: Sep '99	Date Posted: 12/29/04 4:19pm Subject: RE: Overcritical Han Shoots First
	The murder angle doesn't wash. It was self defense, plain and simple, Han- "Over my dead body" Greedo - That's the idea, I've been looking forward to this for sometime." Keep in mind he has Han at gunpoint, in the O-OT it was very obvious he was going to shoot Han. The scene change was unnecesary, and Lucas' comments about supporting murder if you don't like the change are just ridiculous.
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