Jedi Council Forums - Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?

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Author	Topic: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
Deeysew Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 3/18/05 11:59am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	Those scenes were cut, I think. Lucas may yet put them back in. I don't see what all the fuss is about this unfinished film. Lets wait and see if it gets some more little tweaks and additions. I hate watching about 48% of RotJ if that's any indication of how cheesy some it just is... I wont deny that. Still, it's got lightsabers and space ships, which is always a good thing. Heh... ahh, sad.... I am ssoooo lucas' bich. -----signature----- When the saga was completed on the seventh day, George Lucas rested. And then he looked down upon his creation and said, "It is good... but maybe it needs a few more dewbacks." "It's my house to paint white and show people that colored house, then later p
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RogueScribner Title: Webmaster Or lando FL FanForce Registered: Jan '04	Date Posted: 3/18/05 12:47pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	No, it's not a 13 hour movie. The events of one do not smoothly lead into the other. The LOTR trilogy can be seen as one big 10 hour movie because it tells one overall story and each film leads directly into the other. Star Wars has many different episodes that make up one complete saga, but by no means is it one huge movie. Each episode is vastly different from the other. No two are alike. That would be one schizo movie! L8r -----signature----- "I find your lack of faith disturbing." - http://www.orlandosystem.com - "You can't take the sky from me . . . ."
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pgoodyea Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 3/18/05 1:27pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	There is no need for a scene with Han forgiving Lando. These two characters are hard core mercenaries. Do you think it is really in their personality to stop everything and reconcile. Do you do that with any of your friends (that is a comment only for guys). If these two character's were girls, then, yes, a long talk about their issues would be a must. However, guys, especially, tough guys to talk about their feelings. Han knows immediately that if Lando is at Jabba's then he obviously helped Leia and Chewie and is there to pay for his sins and help out a guy he dicked over. However, I agree with some other posters that Lando had no choice. He held his hand and waited to make his move. In regards to my earlier post about Kurtz's article, I believe there is a difference between judging and giving one's opinion. I can say that the SW films are great, that is my opinion, I am not judging the work done by Lucas, but stating my enjoyment (or dislike) of it. Kurtz did not only say that he thought ROTJ and the prequels were bad, but that if this and this had happened it could have been a better movie. Basically claiming that if he was involved he could have made the movie better. Kurtz simply could have stated that he did not like the movies and leave it at that (which he is entitled to do). -----signature----- "One man shall stand, one man shall fall" "Possibly" "Blue Horseshoe loves Anacott Steel" "Skiing is the easy part, Karl" "What we got here is a crusader"
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JediKnightOB1 Registered: Jan '03	Date Posted: 3/18/05 2:06pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	We could go on and on with this topic. But why when it can be summed up with one word... Ewoks!!! The movie was a disapointment on many levels, the first of which is that none of the actors really seemed to be into the project. Harrison Ford acted as if he wished that he had died in the Carbo-Freeze process. George Lucas wished he were sitting at home watching TV and Carrie Fisher was so loaded on Cocaine that she could care less than anything to be there. -----signature----- Creator of...What would get you so mad that you would walk out of Indy IV? http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=24644049&brd=10265&replies=14 You can move mountains or you can throw stones. I choose not to sit on the sidelines of life. Go Gators
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RogueScribner Title: Webmaster Or lando FL FanForce Registered: Jan '04	Date Posted: 3/18/05 2:08pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	I'm not suggesting that a huge reconciliation scene where Han and Lando discuss their issues is needed. Just some sort of an acknowledgement of what happened. Han felt betrayed. That was clear as day in TESB. Cut to ROTJ and everything is roses. I don't buy it. A significant look or handshake would be good. Make a joke out of it if ya want. Lando: "I worked my butt off to save you." Han: "You didn't do to good of a job, pal." Lando: "I infiltrated Jabba's palace!" Han: "Who pulled who out of the Sarlacc pit?" Lando chuckles. "I was trying to save my friend." Han: "Me, too." Okay, not the best dialogue, but I just wrote the first thing that popped into my head. The point I'm trying to make is what I wrote would probably take all of 12 seconds of screentime. Is that too much to resolve a loose thread from the previous film? I don't think so. Lucas could have done things better. He could have handled this relationship better than he did. A few lines of dialogue or a shot of a meaningful glance would suffice. Any acknowledgement would be better than pretending it didn't happen. It's an insult to the audience's intelligence to think they won't notice. L8r -----signature----- "I find your lack of faith disturbing." - http://www.orlandosystem.com - "You can't take the sky from me . . . ."
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Palp_Faction Registered: Feb '02	Date Posted: 3/18/05 2:34pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	I haven't made up my mind whether TPM or ROTJ is the worst SW film. I think the main problem with ROTJ is that it's not as deep or dark as some people (icluding me) would have liked. After the refreshing maturity of ESB the SW audience was suddenly expected to be 5 yrs old again. People were expecting the ulimate confrontation between good and evil but what they got was the Muppet show at the beginning of the film and the Care Bears Movie at the end. (Although I do prefer them to gunguns). ESB had set up Leia as the other only to be a plot point that was glossed over in a few seconds in ROTJ and it never bore any significance to the saga. Also, Lando had betrayed Han in ESB. Does Han forgive him? We assume so, but again, it's forgotten about. It also has the worst, most crinch-worthy scene in the entire saga - Han tapping that scout on the shoulder and running off! What the hell is that all about?? How many commandos use that method to infiltrate enemy held positions? ROTJ comes a long way down my list. I think it was a lazy film. Lazily written, lazily acted. The effects were dazzling, but I find it quite hollow. I agree with the critics I'm afraid. -----signature----- ROTS, ESB, ANH, AOTC, TPM, ROTJ
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Evil_Otto Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 3/18/05 2:41pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	In regards to my earlier post about Kurtz's article, I believe there is a difference between judging and giving one's opinion. I can say that the SW films are great, that is my opinion, I am not judging the work done by Lucas, but stating my enjoyment (or dislike) of it. Kurtz did not only say that he thought ROTJ and the prequels were bad, but that if this and this had happened it could have been a better movie. Basically claiming that if he was involved he could have made the movie better. Kurtz simply could have stated that he did not like the movies and leave it at that (which he is entitled to do). I really don't know how being a professional film critic by saying where Lucas went wrong can be classed as being "bitter"? I also don't know how him saying that Lucas should have stayed true to his own ideas could be classed as "bitter"? I myself agree with Kurtz in saying that Lucas should have stayed with his original story, but I can't see how that makes me bitter either? I'm not bitter, how could I be? Kurtz and I are just stating where Lucas went wrong by not staying with his own ideas, that's all. You have to remember that Kurtz didn't have those original ideas for ROTJ, the ST and the PT, it was mostly Lucas himself, along with some brainstorming from Kurtz. Kurtz is merely stating that he's immensely regretful that Lucas didn't stick by what he himself (not Kurtz) had planned. -----signature----- As evil as you can get! I'm "Berzerk" about films! The once and future king Otto has lived many lives on TheForce.net
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pgoodyea Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 3/18/05 3:09pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	I don't think you are bitter, but merely stating your opinion, which I get. I don't really know what it is, but after reading that article, I just felt like Kurtz was 'hating' on Lucas and the prequel movies. I jumped to the conclusion that the source of Kurtz's hate came from not being able to participate in making the movies. Therefore, he is angry at Lucas and stating how he could have done a better job. I could be completely wrong in my assumptions. I guess I just don't like anybody 'hating' on SW (and I know that you are not). I bet Kurtz will like ROTS (we all know that it is going to be amazing), but will probably never state it in public. -----signature----- "One man shall stand, one man shall fall" "Possibly" "Blue Horseshoe loves Anacott Steel" "Skiing is the easy part, Karl" "What we got here is a crusader"
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Deeysew Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 3/18/05 3:35pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie? - Date Edited: 3/18/05 3:38pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Deeysew
	What you dudes forget is that Han didn't instantly wake up and think he was still in cloud city. His brain was still producing delta or whatever waves that indicate consciousness for those three loooooong years, suspended in whatever hybernation zone the carbon freeze creates. He had a looooooooooooooooooooooong ass time to think about Lando and everything he went through for the lady he loved to bits and pieces. In the larger view of things, reconciling their differences wouldn't mean much since Han never EVER truly trusted Lando until the end when he proved that he'd bring his ship back in one piece and... well... save the galaxy too. I REALLY want Lucas to include the scene in which Han recounts his horrible years of nothingness in hybernation. Just look at his face when threepio mentions it. I think many misinterpret Han's new melancholy, though still sly, attitude as a lethargic performance on Harrison's part, but I doubt that. I think, whoever cobbled the movie together in the editing room, cut key scenes that would have helped us understand his change over the course of three films.... which sucks because now I see the result of those scenes and their abssence is felt everytime I watch the movie. "I'm all right pal, I'm all right." He says it with such sadness... Oh.. man... put it back in GL. PUT IT BACK IN! /bendsover for next re-re-release. -----signature----- When the saga was completed on the seventh day, George Lucas rested. And then he looked down upon his creation and said, "It is good... but maybe it needs a few more dewbacks." "It's my house to paint white and show people that colored house, then later p
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Evil_Otto Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 3/18/05 3:36pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie? - Date Edited: 3/18/05 3:43pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Evil_Otto
	It's ironic really, but I think that Kurtz is madly in love with the Star Wars that could have been. I also think, like myself, he's in deep admiration with the Lucas that was, the young and very dynamic George Lucas, the one that almost made the 9 episode super saga full of Shakespearian drama and tragedy as well as blistering action and high adventure. Even now, I saw an old documentary from 1978 of the making of Star Wars the other day, and I saw exactly what Kurtz was talking about. In that documentary I saw a young George Lucas who was buzzing with enthusiasm and BIG ideas about what he wanted to do with the franchise. He was, I would say, buzzing with the same enthusiasm that I have now for what could have been, something that I still see in Kurtz to this day! No, rather than slagging off Star Wars and George Lucas, I almost see a guy who's seen his best mate turn into a shadow of the GL that I saw in that documentary, whilst his pet dog (a.k.a. Star Wars) has been allowed to starve half to death. You really have to have the vision of the Star Wars that could have been, the one that both Kurtz and I share, the one that Lucas almost made. If you could see what we see then you would be as heart broken as both of us are to see Star Wars and GL himself turn into shadows of what it could have been and the lively dynamo of a film maker that he once was. EDIT: Here's the rest of the other INTERVIEW done with Gary Kurtz. -----signature----- As evil as you can get! I'm "Berzerk" about films! The once and future king Otto has lived many lives on TheForce.net
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RogueScribner Title: Webmaster Or lando FL FanForce Registered: Jan '04	Date Posted: 3/18/05 4:48pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	In the larger view of things, reconciling their differences wouldn't mean much since Han never EVER truly trusted Lando until the end when he proved that he'd bring his ship back in one piece and... well... save the galaxy too. Yeah, except Han and Lando were all chummy during the Rebel briefing and Han lent his baby (the MF) to Lando, so obviously they were square way before the end of the film. Somewhere during the end of the Tatooine sequence or at the beginning of the Home One sequence something should have happened between them two so the audience gets that Han reached an understanding with Lando. Again, it need not be a big emotional "girl talk" scene. Just an acknowledgement of what transpired before. Han doesn't really seem the type to forget, but I guess Lucas means for us to think so. L8r -----signature----- "I find your lack of faith disturbing." - http://www.orlandosystem.com - "You can't take the sky from me . . . ."
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Philagape Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 3/18/05 5:17pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie? - Date Edited: 4/21/06 9:46pm (1 edits total) Edited By: DVeditor
	In Jabba's cell ......... Chewie: Aaarrarararrrgggghhh. Han: Lando? That bastard is here? How much did Jabba pay the ***********? Chewie: Orrarrnnaahhh Rrraarrhhh. Han: What? Chewie: Orrarrnnaahhh. Han: I don't want his help. His help put me in a carbonite can. Chewie: Aaaroorrahhleeiaaa. Han: He did? Chewie: Rrroaar. Han: That doesn't -- Chewie: RROROROawwwaarrr arr arr ooorrrraaaggghhh Han: Well, if he does, then we'll be even. He owes me one. And what IS that smell?? Chewie: Uurgh. Han: Oh. Sorry. Carbonite will do that to a guy. -----signature----- "No time to discuss this in committee!" "I am not a committee!"
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RogueScribner Title: Webmaster Or lando FL FanForce Registered: Jan '04	Date Posted: 3/18/05 6:00pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	See? 20 - 30 seconds and everything is tied up in a neat little bow. L8r -----signature----- "I find your lack of faith disturbing." - http://www.orlandosystem.com - "You can't take the sky from me . . . ."
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RhifRhaf Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 3/18/05 8:46pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	Personally, I think it's the weakest of the Original Trilogy. Granted, it has its moments, but after experiencing the grand beauty and drama of TESB, it falls short. Basically, the story didn't pay off with the impact myself and many other fans at that time thought it would. I remember standing in line for the midnight premiere of ROTJ in Calumet City, Illinois. There had never been such excitement in a theater once we took our seats; you could actually feel the anticipation in the air. But once the story unfolded and the teddy bear Ewoks became the "secret weapon" against the Empire, I felt like Lucas had turned the more adult-oriented TESB into a strawberry shortcake kiddie fest. C'mon, teddy bears against armed Stormtroopers!!?? Here's a short list of the good and the bad, in my opinion. But don't get me wrong; I still watch ROTJ just for old times' sake. GOOD IDEAS: Luke's rescue of Han, using the droids, Chewy, and a disguised Lando and Leia; The sail barge and climactic fight; The speeder bike chase; Luke turning himself in to Vader; Vader's discovery of his daughter; Luke and Vader's scenes with the Emperor. BAD IDEAS: The Rancor (poor design); Boba Fett's death (he dies uneventfully after a Three Stooges-like move by Han); Han and Leia's repeating "I love you" (TESB interaction between them was convincing, ROTJ was not); anything to do with the Ewoks (especially that horrible singing at the end); the soft ending with the Jedi "trinity" smiling in the distance. -----signature----- "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered."
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RogueScribner Title: Webmaster Or lando FL FanForce Registered: Jan '04	Date Posted: 3/18/05 8:50pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	It had Slave Leia, so it's not all bad. L8r -----signature----- "I find your lack of faith disturbing." - http://www.orlandosystem.com - "You can't take the sky from me . . . ."
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