Jedi Council Forums - Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?

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Author	Topic: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
_Jedi-Luke_ Registered: Feb '05	Date Posted: 3/21/05 1:24am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	yes,I love this movie as other two,it's not a bad movie... but any movies all had spots,RotJ was too. -----signature----- solo wing in the galaxy in the universe ...
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Darth_Devilkin Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 3/21/05 1:32am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	I know this doesn't answer his question but: I don't think ROTJ is a bad movie. I don't find it is considered a bad movie either. All of my friends who aren't Star Wars fans like ROTJ the best. My friend who is a big fan also likes it the best. A lot of members here complain about aspects of it but overall I think the feedback is positive. -----signature----- "Boy you said it Chewie...Where did you dig up that old fossil?" "No reward is worth this." "I have the death sentence on 12 systems." "Luminous beings are we...not this crude matter." "I will make it legal."
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RogueScribner Title: Webmaster Or lando FL FanForce Registered: Jan '04	Date Posted: 3/21/05 1:35am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	It's a Tarzan yell. It follows the same beats and tones. Similar? Try exact. It wasn't a "peek into Wookiee culture." It sounded like one of the Ewoks did it anyway. Was that a peek into Ewok culture? No, it was a stupid joke meant to make the Ewoks funny and cute. Gotta make those kids love them so we can sell more toys! L8r -----signature----- "I find your lack of faith disturbing." - http://www.orlandosystem.com - "You can't take the sky from me . . . ."
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inkswamp Registered: Oct '04	Date Posted: 3/21/05 1:50am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie? - Date Edited: 3/21/05 1:52am (1 edits total) Edited By: inkswamp
	Gotta make those kids love them so we can sell more toys! How many kids do you expect know anything about Tarzan movies? Do you really think Lucas would try to inspire toy sales to kids of the late-80s by invoking the image of Tarzan? C'mon! Even when I saw ROTJ in the theaters originally as a kid, I knew almost nothing about Tarzan. It wasn't exactly an endearing cultural image to kids my age. You're so far off-base with your "theory" that it's almost funny. And I disagree with you. I've heard the Tarzan yell enough. What you hear in ROTJ is not the same. Similar yes, but not the same. -----signature----- LAME COMEBACK #1 - Lucas should have done it my way or it's wrong LAME COMEBACK #2 - I can't think metaphorically so it's a PLOT HOLE LAME COMEBACK #3 - Complex interpretations confuse me LAME COMEBACK #4 - Lucas must spoon-feed me every detail
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Evil_Otto Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 3/21/05 3:45am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie? - Date Edited: 3/21/05 3:49am (1 edits total) Edited By: Evil_Otto
	So to understand darkness we must all suffer from depression? Give me a damn break, sir. It's unnecessary to conjure up your illness to gain some perceived authority in a debate about the darkness of Star Wars. You suffer from depression? Big deal, that doesn't mean you know what "real" darkness is. You're overstating yourself and understating those people who have experienced things much more terrible than you have. Being depressed and, say, spending four years of your life in a concentration camp or freezing to death building a dam in a Siberian gulag, are very different things. And I'm afraid depression doesn't sit anywhere near the top as far as experiencing "darkness" goes. What a shallow abuse of a serious illness. I never once connected the concentration camps to depression. You just read that into two different statements in order to make an arguement. I said that I knew about what real darkness was because of several reasons, depression and things that I've seen and read about in-depth in history, things that would make your toes curl! I wasn't connecting depression with concentration camps, although seeing such things and what people can do to each other can only help to make one even more depressed and cynical. The best person to make real drama isn't someone who's naive and walks around all their life with rose tinted glasses, but someone who's faced darkness first hand, someone who's been through tons of crap and has become cynical and depressive as a result of said crap. Say, have you ever dreamt that your face was rotting away, or that you were stuck inside a coffin buried alive? Well, I have. Hence, I'm immune to all of the sugar coated "happy ever after" bull s*** that Lucas wrote for ROTJ! You see, real life just isn't anything like that, the idea that everything will be 100% alright in the end. I'll tell you what real darkness is, and that's a scene in War and Remembrance, where the train carrying Jews comes to hault at Auschwitz, the doors slide open only for the Nazi guards to half set their rabid guard dogs on them. In the darkness the ones that are still alive are put into line by the shouting guards and an SS officer starts signaling with his thumb (left and right) for who will live and who will die. When it comes time for one of the main characters, a young Jewish woman, he stops and grins menacingly at her as he signals for her to come closer. I get the feeling when watching his face that he was tempted to have his way with her before she went into the camp for almost certain eventual extermination. He also wanted for her to sweat it out not knowing which way he was going to pick, left or right. Yes, I always remember that as being very dramatic and grim. I also remember reading that SS guards (most of them at the camps were ex-cons) used to kick pregnant women in their stomachs and played football with live babies! And when the camps were being blown up towards the end of the war, rather than gas the children they used to throw them alive and fully conscious onto bonfires!!! Need I go on? No, I don't think I do somehow. Needless to say, I know what real darkness really is, through my own depression and through what I've read and seen, and it does leave Lucas' Muppet ridden "happy ever after" ROTJ somewhat in the shade, doesn't it? -----signature----- As evil as you can get! I'm "Berzerk" about films! The once and future king Otto has lived many lives on TheForce.net
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RamRed Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 3/21/05 8:31am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	[QUOTE] I love both prequels, but think the editing in AOTC is poor; the family scenes added a lot of heart to the movie and shouldn't have been cut. [/QUOTE] I totally . . . disagree. The scene featuring Padme’s family would have unnecessarily dragged the movie. I have no real problems with AOTC. Yes, it’s flawed. But what Star Wars movie isn’t? I can point out the flaws of all five movies, so far.
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Pinkee Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 3/21/05 8:49am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	I always watch ROTJ with my heart not my head and that's why it's my personal favorite. The movie should deliver an emotional punch and it does. It's not a perfect movie but then again no Star Wars movie is.
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Obi-Ewan Registered: Jan '00	Date Posted: 3/21/05 8:52am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	I can think of an upside and a downside to ROTJ. The downside is that the original Star Wars blew audiences away with its sheer originality--even if it was only original by stealing from so many sources. It was als an optimistic film in a decade filled with darker, pessimistic films. Empire surprised everyone by not being a repeat, and by being the polar opposite of the first film. What could Jedi do that was original? It really had nothing to do but wrap things up. In doing so, certain plot elements were recycled. Once again, there was a Death Star. Once again, heroes use disguises and use Chewbacca as a prisoner to rescue one of their own. Once again, there's a ground battle. Once again, it's an attempt to blow up a shield generator. Once again, Luke battles Vader. However, I think there's some value in the role reversal involved. Leia returns Han's favor, and Lando redeems himself, by rescuing Han. Luke spearheads a rescue attempt that, for once, doesn't get out of his hands. The Ewoks, for all the ciriticism they received, are only in the second half, and are in less than half the movie if you consider the cross-cutting stories. Critics say Han Solo seems to be more subdued, but I disagree. He actually has more to do here than before. The entire first half hour is devoted to rescuing him. He leads the expedition to Endor. And for once, he is essential to the climax. In the previous films, the climaxes were marked by his departure. Now he is an essential part of it. As for Luke vs. Vader, this is the only film in which both of their actions are motivated both by their essential natures and Jedi and Sith, but by their knowledge of their roles as father and son. No longer just the target for Vader's trap, Luke knows who Vader is now, confronts him with that knowledge, and makes all his decisions based on it. The fact that Vader is his father is actually dealt with here. Luke aspirations to follow in his father's footsteps finally come to a head. And then of course, there's Palpatine. If ROTJ mainly resolved the father/son story, then most of it takes place in Palpatine's presence. The conflict between Vader and Luke may be at the heart of these scenes, but McDiarmid defined the role, and helped make those scenes some of the best in the film. -----signature----- "I am very concerned about our national heritage, and I am very concerned that the films that I watched when I was young and the films that I watched throughout my life are preserved, so that my children can see them." --George Lucas
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bswb Registered: Dec '00	Date Posted: 3/21/05 11:20pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	While I don't really like the Ewoks, my main issue with the film comes down to Han. Like Harrison Ford said, there's really not a lot for him to do after he's rescued. One point I always make to my friend is that most of Han's actions on Endor could be replaced by Generic Rebel General #4. It's like Morpheus in the Matrix sequels - he got relegated to being an action scene prop. That's my biggest disappointment. My friend, of course, counters with the argument that Generic Rebel General #4 couldn't have the ingenuity or aiming accuracy of Han. But then the conversation REALLY veers off course. As for the revised ending, it's obviously very divisive. I've NEVER liked the Ewok song - I always thought it was out of place. It was just too corny. I thought the celebration scenes deserved a more subdued and somber tone. Because even though it's a celebration of defeating the Empire, the story really is about Luke redeeming Vader. For me, that seriousness is lost among the "Jub jub!" lyrical genius of the Ewoks. So I really really like the SE ending over the original. And the thing with adding Hayden in...I won't judge until after I see ROTS. -----signature----- "Would it help if I got out and pushed?" "It might!"
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IDigMetalBikinis Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 3/22/05 2:40am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie? - Date Edited: 3/22/05 2:52am (3 edits total) Edited By: IDigMetalBikinis
	"The Luke/Leia thing. This is my least favorite aspect of ROTJ. It just wasn't necessary, and it makes the previous kissing scenes weird, especially because Leia says that she always knew. Sure Yoda said that there was another, it could have been Leia without Leia being related to Luke and Vader.." I've always been perplexed as to why a great many people have a hard time accepting this one plot point. Ancient mythology, and Greek mythology in particular, is rife with examples of lovers(or those with the inclination to be) who turn out to be siblings, or even parent and child. Shakespeare's HAMLET contains none too subtle incestuous and Oedipal undertones, as well. It's a well worn mythological story point, just as common as the callow youth who becomes the hero, or the old wizard who imparts mystical knowledge. When Leia says, "Somehow I've always known", this is her moment of clarity, courtesy of Luke's confession about their blood ties. In retrospect, her conscious self accepts the truth her subconscious(or her soul, or her force, etc) always knew, and everything falls into place. It doesn't mean she suspected Luke was her brother and still had romantic feelings for him anyway. As far as the Throne Room scenes being ROTJ's greatest asset..I distinctly remember in 1983, when the film was released, a good majority of critics and moviegoers stating that these scenes were the film's greatest weakness! "Overwrought, boring, corny, Wicked Witch in space" are some of the comments I recall. People were much more interested in the Jabba sequence, the Endor stuff and the space battle. It's interesting to see how the tide has turned over 20 years, and that the Throne Room scenes are now recognized as the strength of the film. -----signature----- OT4EVER Scoundrel? Scoouundrel! I like the sound of that.
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Metal_Force_Doom Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 3/22/05 8:39am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie? - Date Edited: 3/22/05 8:42am (1 edits total) Edited By: Metal_Force_Doom
	I hate one thing about ROTJ - Chewie's Tarzan yell when he was swinging from a vine. That was stupid. The Ewoks were fine. Why do people whine about Ewoks and then not Jawas? -----signature----- "Cheating seems to be relavent term when one is caught in the act, otherwise its viewed as intelligence." - HK-47
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k-man Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 3/22/05 9:17am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	I hate one thing about ROTJ - Chewie's Tarzan yell when he was swinging from a vine. That was stupid. I think you raise an interesting point here. When compared to the other OT films, Jedi introduces this sort of "earthly" humor that did not exist in EP IV and V, and has continued on in the PT. Jedi likewise introduced the first belch in a SW movie. The PT has followed this tradition by giving us farts, bantha poop, and the two-headed pod race announcer chanting "Whoo-whoo-whoo" ala Arsenio Hall, and exclaiming "That's gotta hurt," something from our common vernacular that comes across as cheap attempts at humor. -----signature----- Not-so-spoiler free for Episode III. Read my Fan Fiction: Lando's Quandry at http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=16527974&start=16543406 Dark Dream at http://boards.theforce.net/The_Saga/b10476/17148072/?2
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Metal_Force_Doom Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 3/22/05 10:40am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	Don't forget young Anakin going "YIPPIEEEEEEE!" -----signature----- "Cheating seems to be relavent term when one is caught in the act, otherwise its viewed as intelligence." - HK-47
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sheep21 Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 3/22/05 10:49am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	Two thing i didnt like: Tatooine, necscerry but i never liked that dust bowl. Ewoks - To damned frigging cute! and cuddly! Throne Room and Space battle are the best parts methinks. -----signature----- Darth Vader: "Apology exceted Captain Needa" 'Are you Death?' ITS THE SCYTHE ISNT IT? EVERYONE NOTICES THE SCYTHE
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AJcontender Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 3/22/05 2:40pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	I saw ROTJ for the first time when I was about 8 years old after it was already on video (my parents weren't able to go to the movies very often), so I have to say that the Ewoks never bothered me when I first saw it because my willing suspension of disbelief allowed me to see them as real creatures, not midgets in furry suits. But, I want to say that beyond the whole Ewok/Chewie-Tarzan/Burping Sarlak stuff, I will always consider ROTJ to be my favorite movie of the saga because of ONE scene: When the Emperor is electrocuting Luke, Luke cries "Father, please..." Vader turns to look at the Emperor, then looks back toward his son, then he turn to the Emperor again, leans back, and then lunges and picks up the Emperor like the Emperor is a two-bit punk (nothing compared to love that a father can have for his son), and throws him down into that pit. Holy crap - that scene gives me goosebumps just to see someone, in one action, choosing the side of good.
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