Jedi Council Forums - Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?

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Author	Topic: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
bluebottle Registered: Jan '05	Date Posted: 1/30/05 10:51am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie? - Date Edited: 1/30/05 10:54am (1 edits total) Edited By: bluebottle
	I just re-watched the OT... I was surprised that i disliked ROTJ so much. It had nothing to do with the Ewoks, and everything to do with the "human actors"... After TESB, it's just a huge dissappointment. The actors are phoning in their performances, and Han has nothing to do... He should have died. Look at his journey, he went from being this bad ass smugler who (in a paralell universe) shot bounty hunters first, to a scoundrel trying to get laid on the run from Jabba the Hutt AND the empire, to a puppy eyed teenager who was now clearly on the side of good and acting selflesly... not that great. One thing in particular that really stood out, was the scene between Luke and Leia just before Luke goes to confront Vader. Man, that's an awful scene. It's horribly written, and the acting is sub-par. It's frustrating because TESB was made with such care, the scene on Bespin that they re-shot because the tone was wrong... Can you imagine if that scene was in the film? It would have been awful. But they spotted it, and went back and fixed it... Because it was about the characters. Spielberg should have made ROTJ. That was a huge mistake IMHO.
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Moleman1138 Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Aug '04	Date Posted: 1/30/05 11:14am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	I wanted a darker movie than Empire. ...and did I get it, no. The only thing that made the film somewhat dark was Palpatine. Jabba's Palace was a Muppet Playhouse, no offense. Dagobah was just a brief stopover, no action like in ESB. The planet doesn't have that intrigue anymore. Then you have the Ewoks, who I think will be redeemed soon, but now they're still furry balls of fur. The duel was more emotional, but not as intense. Empire is still a better duel. We're also introduced to many underdeveloped characters. I.E.: Ackbar, Mothma, Palpatine, Nien Nunb, -----signature----- Host of CBC (Chapter by Chapter) for PT, CT and SFF forums and Box Office Game ROTS-DS Chapter 3: Seeds of Rebellion FOTR Chapter 29: Bilbo's Gifts TSS Chapter 17: Facts and Feathers (8/24/07)
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LORD_MONSTROSITY Registered: Apr '04	Date Posted: 1/30/05 12:02pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	I agree with bluebottle and a few others who said it was a huge let down after TESB especially when you wait 3 years for it. Han should have died. At the time, I wouldn't have liked it but now I think he should have and the dialogue does suck most of the time too. I didn't hate ROTJ, though.
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Freddy-Krueger Registered: Jan '05	Date Posted: 1/30/05 3:56pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	I wanted a darker movie than Empire. ...and did I get it, no. Umm....it's a movie about redemption and the good guys winning. Why the hell would it be a darker film than the already incredibly dark Empire Strikes Back? -----signature----- "At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have our revenge!"
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DarthBoba Registered: Jun '00	Date Posted: 1/30/05 4:02pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	TESB is about as dark as a care-bears story. The only dark thing about it is that the good guys temporarily lose. Hell, it has the only romance in all three films. ROTJ is dark as hell. First thing we see the main character doing is Force-choking some folks. We see Leia debased, droids being tortured, a son nearly committing patricide, a father watching as his son is nearly electrocuted, Rebels dying by the thousands, ewoks being slaughtered by stormies...yes, it's a light, silly film. -----signature----- Only a Prime can defeat Vader and his Emperor.
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BaronFel88 Registered: Jan '04	Date Posted: 1/30/05 4:02pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	The emotional high from the end of RotJ is great, and while I feel parts of Endor are a little slow, it's still a great movie (I love the Sail Barge Assault as well as the Battle of Endor). -----signature----- "Oh the pain" "What a disgrace" -Joe Benigno
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Mos_Eisley Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 1/30/05 4:24pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	ROTJ is considered a bad movie? -----signature----- "Who's manning the Internet?!" -Stan Smith from American Dad at a Sci-Fi Convention
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StormTrooper1776 Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 1/30/05 5:12pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie? - Date Edited: 1/30/05 5:16pm (1 edits total) Edited By: StormTrooper1776
	Basically if this movie was changed a little bit,it could be just as good as TESB.Just a couple of things really. 1.The Ewoks:Its one thing that there small,but cute looking too,thats like a double kill.If you keep them small,at least make them scary looking. 2.The Duel:The duel should be twice as good as TESB,since Luke is now a Jedi. Plus Vader just falls to the ground and lays there and does nothing looks real bad too.This is suppose to be the last duel in the whole saga. If those two things were fixed,the duel and the ewoks,then this movie would be up there with the others. -----signature----- ROTJ:Make all the ewoks CGI,make them ferocious like wolverines,agile like monkeys,have them climb trees,make them move fast,have them jump out of the trees and land on the stormtroopers,have there be thousands of them,Make stormtroopers have camo armor.
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Freddy-Krueger Registered: Jan '05	Date Posted: 1/30/05 5:34pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	2.The Duel:The duel should be twice as good as TESB,since Luke is now a Jedi. Plus Vader just falls to the ground and lays there and does nothing looks real bad too.This is suppose to be the last duel in the whole saga. The duel is supposed to be different from the ESB duel. The ESB duel was about Luke fighting a man who he thought killed his father, and then finds out he IS his father. In ROTJ, it's about him facing his father, doing whatever he can to turn him away from the dark side of the force. Meanwhile Vader is trying to lure Luke into the dark side of the force. The greatness of this duel is the emotion, not the fighting. -----signature----- "At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have our revenge!"
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-_-_-_-_-_- Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 1/30/05 5:52pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie? - Date Edited: 1/30/05 5:56pm (1 edits total) Edited By: -_-_-_-_-_-
	I would attribute it to the fact that it had such highly reguarded predecessors, especically The Empire Strikes Back. When a new pinacle of filmmaking and storytelling is achieved, as it was with TESB, peoples' expections usually become unrealistic as a result. ROTJ was a good film, but generally the third act in three act plays are the least popular because it is the closure of the story and no new elements, drama, or conflicts are being introduced.
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Anakin-Fan Registered: Oct '04	Date Posted: 1/30/05 5:52pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	omg , i love ALL the sw movies equally.... yes , TPM , AOTC , [ ROTS as well soon ] , ANH , ESB , ROTJ.....all equal to me , because they all have unique stuff. Bt ROTJ to me is really really important , i can really feel Anakins emotion as he watches his master torturing his son , the ending has always been so powerfull to me and it still is ! ALso , the ewoks i didnt mind too much , the space battle was and still is to this day top-notch ! The duel was great , emotional ! , Luke constantly trying to get his father to his side....i love it ! But it always makes me feel sad as i see Anakin dying , [ prolly even more after may 19th ] because i know what hes been through , and then when luke sets torch upon Vaders armor , its very powerfull scenes. I love all the sw movies and i love ROTJ ! -----signature----- Proud member + Founder of the Welcome to the Boards Group ! Proud Member of the TR! http://www.freewebs.com/wttbg/index.htm Official Ally of the 05er Redemption Squad (05RS) *"Sir I welcome you!" of the Knights of The 3SA Welcome Group*
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Thumbjoint Registered: Feb '05	Date Posted: 2/3/05 3:55am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	I think the reason some people like ESB the best is simply because it is the middle movie in the trilogy. It's not the beginning, and it's not the end. Sometimes when I'm watching episodes of past tv shows(ones that are over), I prefer to watch episodes that are not the very first or the very last.
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Tyranus_the_Hutt Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 2/3/05 6:12am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	That is a very good point, Thumbjoint. Also, "Return of the Jedi" is also more emotional than any of the other films in the saga; you have to deal with the fact that the story arc is finished. As I have mentioned previously in this very thread, I think that the reasons that some people consider "Return of the Jedi" a bad movie, is due to the "Muppet Factory Explosion" that is Jabba's palace, and the presence of those furry critters inhabiting Endor, the Ewoks. I have also heard that some people think a number of the performances in the film are pretty routine, to which I respond: If you're complaining about "acting" in a "Star Wars" film, it's probably time to go and watch something else. Yes, I think that the picture has its flaws, but I do not share many of the same opinions mentioned earlier in this post. My issues with the film concern primarily fundamental matters such as structure, pacing, and editing. The movie spends so much time trying to tie everything together and bring a sense of closure to the saga, that there are times when you almost want to say "get on with it". That said, there are at least a dozen wonderful scenes, visionary action sequences, touching moments, and so forth, that the film's flaws become almost irrelevant. I do love the film - it ranks fourth, or second to last, on my personal list of "Star Wars" movies (that means - GASP! - that at least one, if not two prequel films are in my top three! Activating "flame" defense shields.....), but I still think that it's a great picture. -----signature----- "The screen is a magic medium. It has such power that it can retain interest as it conveys emotions and moods that no other art form can hope to tackle." - Stanley Kubrick
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Darth-Adroit Registered: Jan '04	Date Posted: 2/4/05 1:10am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	Perhaps I can shed some light on this. ROTJ is detested by many older fans because it goes beyond the pale in being cute. Perhaps some of you are not old enough to appreciate a film that appeals to parents as much as it does children. Some parents don’t enjoy having to explain why a scene is funny to their kids (I don’t mind, but I have friends that do) they also don’t want to suffer through long scenes that only appeal to the juvenile mind. The main reason Shrek and Toy Story are so widely lauded is simply because they have elements that appeal to parents without creating a bunch of questions for kids. Take the bust scene in Shrek 2; Puss-N-Boots is busted with what looks like a gram of Catnip. This appeals to parents because we all know that it alludes to cocaine. At the same time there is enough action going on around that situation to distract from the Catnip bust so while parents are laughing at the drug bust kids are laughing at the over the top nature of the entire scene. Thus the scene is entertaining for adults without creating a situation that requires an explanation for the kids. I think that much of the problem lies with the fact that many parents are lazy and self-centered, but I also know how uncomfortable it can be to explain Enzyte and Viagra commercials to a 6-year-old. ANH introduced the droids and they had a cutesy element, but they also served a practical purpose. In 1977 (when I was 5) my parents laughed when R2 beeped at 3PO and so did I, but for very different reasons. The droids were essential to the story and did not seem to be placed in the movie just for marketing purposes. The same can be said about Yoda in Empire. Sure he had the voice of Grover, but he was an essential part of the story. Can you really say that about the Ewoks or Jar Jar? I think if you are honest with yourself you will admit that those characters were used almost exclusively for comic relief and the Ewoks were clearly just an excuse for a plush toy line. Was there really any need for the Ewoks? Search your feelings and you know that the movie would have been fine without them. The Rebels could have tracked down the shield generator without the assistance of the Ewoks. I was only 11 when Jedi came out and even I could see that there was no need for them. Take away the droids in ANH and Luke and Ben never learn about the Death Star. Take Yoda out of ESB and Luke never becomes a Jedi. Take the Ewoks out of ROTJ and nothing is lost. Kids enjoy the Ewoks and kids enjoy Jar Jar, but children grow out of those things by age 10 and these creatures detract from the enjoyment of the films for almost anyone past puberty. I think many that hate those characters would have fewer issues if they had not been spoiled by Lucas with the droids and Yoda. We know he can craft creatures with broader appeal and when he fails to deliver it is a sort of let down. Another issue for some is the Death Star. I don’t mind it, but it does seem to smack of a Lucas brain-fart because it is essentially a retread. Again this is only disappointing because Lucas set a high standard in the first two movies and then failed to maintain that standard in Jedi. Film makers do it all the time. In fact most of my friends that hate on Jedi will bag on Jackie Brown in the next sentence. That is not to say that JB is without merit, but Quentin Tarantino set a high standard with Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction and JB just doesn’t measure up. Having said all of that Jedi has the best space combat scene ever put to celluloid. ROTS will be hard pressed to duplicate the rush I felt when Ackbar said, “it’s a trap” and they turned to see those ties bearing down on them. The light saber duel between Luke and Vader was clearly the best duel of the OT and I have still not seen a villain that reeks of evil the way the Emperor does. For those reasons alone I will always love Jedi and be willing to overlook the Ewoks, but I can see the flaws that ruin the movie for many fans. -----signature----- "I am altering the Original Trilogy. Pray I don't alter it further" - Darth Lucas "Look, arguing well against gushers is one thing. Arguing well against the free-thinking? That's something else." – Han “I shot first” Solo
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swfan4life_1979 Registered: Feb '05	Date Posted: 2/4/05 9:03pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	I am what you would consider one of those "older" fans and I saw ROTJ when I was 4 years old in the theatre in 1983 and I enjoyed as much as any other Star Wars film. I found the redemption of Anakin Skywalker overwhelming and beautifully done. I have no problem with the Ewoks and I am not going to open up can of worms and defend them to others, because I am glad Lucas picked Ewoks over a wookie planet. I was growing up in the 80's and I remember the general public concesus was that the film was fantastic. Not that I care for public opinion on a film. But the notion that ROTJ is hated is ridiculous. I still would rather pop in ROTJ over ROTK in my DVD player any day of the week! -----signature----- Their are many people who claim to be a Christian but few actually are The internet. You'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy Choosing your favorite Star Wars film is like choosing your favorite child, you just can’t do it.
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