Jedi Council Forums - Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?

Locked Topic | Read Only Topic | Previous Active Topic | Next Active Topic

« 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 » - Previous | Next | Reload

Author	Topic: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
BaronFel88 Registered: Jan '04	Date Posted: 3/9/05 4:26pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	I still think RotJ is entertaining enough to make up for its shortcomings. And I have to disagree with one thing, RogueScribner, I love the emotional high at the end. I think it's fitting. -----signature----- "Oh the pain" "What a disgrace" -Joe Benigno
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Jerjerrod-Lennox Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 3/10/05 7:11am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	ROTJ, i think is a brilliant film. The space battle and ground battle are awesome. It is a fitting end to the saga. Although I do agree that the Tatooine scenes were too long for my liking. -----signature----- I have got to get me one of these! See my sock Innox for profile details. ""Great men never hurry, great men cause others to hurry" Moff Jerjerrod
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
yodasbum Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 3/17/05 8:19am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	I love ROTJ and it was teh film I wanted as an 8 year old. At nearly 30 a see it a little different. Star Wars isn't jsut the property of GL anymore. It is alos my property!!!!! It is also yours! And yours and yours! I repect and enjoyed what GL did but I would do it slightly differently. ROTJ has some awsome moments, truely majestical scenes such as those with Luke and Vader- the conversation before going to teh Death Star, the fight, return of the Jedi, the death scene and teh funeral scene. All very powerful stuff in my view. The Emperor was a fantastic character. And this is where the strength of the film should have been and they GL/RM got that spot on. What I think people (i.e. not of all of this is my opinion) could be challenged with: 1. The return of the death star was a lazy plot point- it had been done! Multiple death stars may have been a better concept to translate to the screen but a new plot device would have been far better. In using the Death Star early in the first film GL made a blockbusting film but shot his bolt too early as far as drama within the triology. 2. The mood or tone of Jedi was very different and sombre- Luke isn't navie as in A New Hope or angry as in Empire. I see him as depressed (rightly so) which knocks an edge off the series energy. It's the way I think it should be played but not the best as a story telling devise. I think that the sombre mood is carried out throughout the film and has a lot to do with GL problems of making the film, wishing it was over and his divorce. 2. The Ewoks I have no problem at all with them and accept them just fine. The shot of one Ewok mourning for the other just slain in battle is a real strong scene. However, I know other people do have a problem with them. I think people lost it when GL let it out of the bag about the origional Wookie ending. I think people can become frustrated by imaging how great the triology would have ended with this battle!!! 3. The pan pipes ending!!!! I hate the SE ending I hate that music it's elevator music please return to Yub nub. 4. The structure of the film isn't as strong as previous episiodes. It is in fact two films in one- the rescue of Han and the rest of the film! The rescue of Han has no strong conection with the rest of the film and let's face Han does not have a strong role to play in this film. GL could have had the hero's finding the information about the Death Star at this same time. Conceited, yes I know but could have been explained quite easily as teh hero's stubbling on a bounty hunter trying to sell information to Jabba (obviously fed information by Sidious because he wants them to know and can predict that the hero's will attempt to save Han and so will be in the right pplace!!) 5.Wasted charcters!!! ROTJ is concerned with wrapping up the plot points. Character development of all but Luke/Vader has gone. Han is wasted/Lando is wasted/Han is wasted. I believe that GL didn't capitalise on the relationship between Han and Lando and it should have been much stronger. Reverse their roles and have Han in the Falcon pleading to allow Lando more time to knock out the sheild generator- "We've got to give him more time!" Would send the only general you have who has been up against a Death Star on another mission. Isn't the sneeker (i.e. skillful at deciet) Lando plausible trying to break into a sheild generator? You then could have played on people's trust issues with Lando and increased the tension- will he wont he do it? Also this would increase the importance of both Han to the ending and the importance of their friendship to the story. 6. The homuor of the film- it is juvenile! 7. The brother sister thing! Nothing wrong as a plot point but would have been far far better if they hadn't been showing the hots for each other in earlier films. After the Vader surprise this was a little stretched. It needed to be highlighted as a possiblilty far earlier. 8. The duel should have been longer! I think that this film has more inherent problems than the other two but it still doesn't get the credit it deserves.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
yodasbum Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 3/17/05 9:33am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	Sorry for all the sp mistakes in the above post I was typing in a hurry!!!!!!!!
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
RamRed Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 3/17/05 10:01am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	I don't consider RotJ a bad movie. But I do consider it the most inferior of the five SW movies. The rehash of the Death Star, the bad acting by Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher and the Ewoks made it my least favorite of them all. However, I do believe that Mark Hamill's performance, along with Vader's final moment had saved the film.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Evil_Otto Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 3/17/05 1:07pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	p.s. Kurtz produced only AHN and EMPIRE, Why is he always the one quoted when something negative comes up about JEDI or the PT? was he really instrumental in the formation of the those movies? (besides the money). i don't get it. Please, Kurtz had nothing to do with the success of Star Wars. The only thing that stopped Lucas from getting everything he wanted on screen was the technologies of the time. Kurtz is just a bitter a-hole who thinks he's the reason the first two films were so good (and automatically thinks every other film that he didn't produce is crap). Lucas and Kurtz both worked very closely together on the original vision of the Star Wars Trilogy, which at the time was a 9 episode saga. He had a large creative part in how the first two films turned out, not least in the fact that he was in charge of second unit when the director was off filming other parts of the film. You might say that on Empire, for example, he was Vader to Kershner's Tarkin and Lucas' Palpatine. He was a very powerful guy on the ground who worked hard on a creative level with Lucas on ANH, and with both Kershner and Lucas on ESB. To say that he sounds bitter is over doing it a bit. I'd say that he's just very regretful about how the rest of the movies turned out, especially since he knows all too well how the 9 episodes would have turned out if it wasn't for Lucas' marriage break-up to Marcia (another big creative contributor to the first two Star Wars movies) and Lucas' subsequent loss of interest in what would have been a grand epic to end all epics! The thing is, after reading everything Kurtz has said about what he and Lucas had in mind for Star Wars before Lucas' disillusion with the franchise, I see in my mind's eye exactly what the Star Wars Saga would have been if only Lucas had stuck to his guns and pressed ahead with what he had originally envisioned. Now if we had got the films that he originally intended to make, then you would not have thought Kurtz such an "a-hole" as you say he is. It would have been a true work of movie making art on a magnificent grandiose level that would have made your minds truly boggle! That's why Kurtz left the project, because he didn't like the way Lucas was changing his mind on the movies, the way he was cutting corners and intruducing Ewoks, burp jokes and tons of comical Muppet aliens. Also, Lucas has proved time and time again with directors, producers and actors, that he only likes working with "yes men and women", which I'm afraid Kurtz just isn't the type of guy to blow sunshine up the boss's arse if an idea stinks, so he had to go in order for Lucas to find himself a puppet as a producer. 4. The structure of the film isn't as strong as previous episiodes. It is in fact two films in one- the rescue of Han and the rest of the film! You mean that it's four films in one, Ep VI, Ep VII, Ep VIII & Ep IX! -----signature----- As evil as you can get! I'm "Berzerk" about films! The once and future king Otto has lived many lives on TheForce.net
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
4LOM Registered: Jan '04	Date Posted: 3/17/05 1:09pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	I agree with some of what you are all saying, but I would like to throw in my two cents on a couple of issues: 1) Han trusting Lando way too quickly? We forget that Han had a good few hours in a cell with Chewie. I think it's safe to say that in addition to telling Han that Luke was a Jedi Knight and was going to rescue them, that Lando had joined their side, was responsible for Leia, Chewie, and the droids getting away from Cloud City, and was in disguise in the palace, ready to help spring Han. 2) Lando and Han being "wasted" in ROTJ. I'd have to disagree. While the prospects of Han fighting in the Falcon in space while Lando leads the commando team is interesting to think about, it makes sense in ROTJ. Han was once a man who was a mercenary, and was all about his ship. To paraphrase Leia in ANH, he didn't care about "anything...or anyone". Han letting Lando take the Falcon really shows that Han has become less selfish and is an integrated part of the "family" of good guys, and is content to be apart from his ship. As for Lando, he lost a great deal in ESB. The Empire robbed him of his stewardship over Cloud City, a position be obviously had really enjoyed, and had forced him and many other residents to leave by taking the city over. Lando leading the starfighter forces at the Battle of Endor is not only him getting even against the Empire, it's him ultimately making up for his misdeed of standing by while Han was put into carbon-freeze.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Padmes_love_slave24 Registered: Mar '03	Date Posted: 3/17/05 6:34pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	I am glad ROTJ followed Lucas’ vision and not the vision of Kurtz. If you don’t understand the meaning of the Ewoks I am not going to bother explaining what it means, because the Ewoks were put in the film for a reason. All star wars films are for kids and adults and I am 26 GET OVER IT! This thread disgusts me the so called “fans” who insult ROTJ I consider as traitors. -----signature----- The internet you'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy People who follow consensus opinions are mindless sheep! South Park SUCKS! Go Bears! LOTR=Cure for Insomnia!
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Deeysew Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 3/17/05 7:14pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	DAmn... -----signature----- When the saga was completed on the seventh day, George Lucas rested. And then he looked down upon his creation and said, "It is good... but maybe it needs a few more dewbacks." "It's my house to paint white and show people that colored house, then later p
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
CBright7831 Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 3/17/05 9:17pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie? - Date Edited: 3/17/05 9:18pm (1 edits total) Edited By: CBright7831
	I think the guy from The Editing Room said it best: RABID STAR WARS FANS LIKE MYSELF Ugh! This is the worst film in the series! These Ewoks! They're so childish and ridiculous and cutesy! GEORGE LUCAS Uh.. folks.. these ARE children's movies, you know. RABID STAR WARS FANS LIKE MYSELF Quiet! They are mature space sagas! Some of the greatest fantasy films ever made! http://ter.air0day.com/?script=returnofthejedi ADMIT IT! IT IS. DEEP DOWN YOU ALL KNOW IT! -----signature----- CBright7831 - Nute Gunray's No.1 Fan - Viceroy of the Nute Gunray Fan Club - "The war is over. Lord Sidious promised us peace. We only want --" cut down in mid sentence - R.I.P. Viceroy Nute Gunray 1999-2005
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Amon_Amarth Registered: Jan '05	Date Posted: 3/17/05 11:54pm Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	I don't think ROTJ was bad at all. Actually, it's my favourite OT movie. -----signature----- Jedi Guardian - Acolytes of Revan Dr. Sheldon Cooper FTW! 'Caenorhabditis elegans' is much better than Darth Plagueis at cheating death. "Don't **** with the Jedi Master, son!" Mark Hamill, CE
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
yodasbum Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 3/18/05 1:14am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	Padmes love slave- people who think that it i a bad film or that it has bad moments are traitors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where do you get off on????????????? Just because someone doesn't bow down and worship a film doen't mean they are traitors. It's a film not a member of your family!!!!!!!! Star Wars A New Hope is universialy praised as an excellent film. Empire is the best sequel of all time- period IMO! And in the opinion of many even better than the first film. Both of these films often hit the top spot in public best film lists. Jedi is regaurd as the best by some fans. But it has its flaws. It doesn't often make the top 30 in general best film lists. The story is great but the execution of teh film could and should have been better. Do you regaurd the Hoilday special in the same light because it's Star Wars?
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Evil_Otto Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 3/18/05 2:44am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	I am glad ROTJ followed Lucas’ vision and not the vision of Kurtz. Actually, ROTJ didn't even meet Lucas' vision, because the plot that Kurtz has underlined was actually Lucas' original intensions! If you don’t understand the meaning of the Ewoks I am not going to bother explaining what it means, because the Ewoks were put in the film for a reason. Vietnam, right? Well, maybe it'll interest you to know that the VC weren't three foot tall midgets armed with sticks and rocks. It was more like they were between 5' and 5'5" tall and armed with AK-47 assault rifles, grenades and RPG's! All star wars films are for kids and adults and I am 26 GET OVER IT! This thread disgusts me the so called “fans” who insult ROTJ I consider as traitors. Well, there goes the idea of free speech... I think the guy from The Editing Room said it best: RABID STAR WARS FANS LIKE MYSELF Ugh! This is the worst film in the series! These Ewoks! They're so childish and ridiculous and cutesy! GEORGE LUCAS Uh.. folks.. these ARE children's movies, you know. RABID STAR WARS FANS LIKE MYSELF Quiet! They are mature space sagas! Some of the greatest fantasy films ever made! http://ter.air0day.com/?script=returnofthejedi ADMIT IT! IT IS. DEEP DOWN YOU ALL KNOW IT! Now that link was great! Had me bustin' my sides! Padmes love slave- people who think that it i a bad film or that it has bad moments are traitors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where do you get off on????????????? Just because someone doesn't bow down and worship a film doen't mean they are traitors. It's a film not a member of your family!!!!!!!! Star Wars A New Hope is universialy praised as an excellent film. Empire is the best sequel of all time- period IMO! And in the opinion of many even better than the first film. Both of these films often hit the top spot in public best film lists. Jedi is regaurd as the best by some fans. But it has its flaws. It doesn't often make the top 30 in general best film lists. The story is great but the execution of teh film could and should have been better. Do you regaurd the Hoilday special in the same light because it's Star Wars? Unfortunately, what you seem to be talking to here is what people call a "geek", someone who loves anything that's called Star Wars, whether it be good or bad. In short, they're fanatics who probably have a life size golden statue of Lucas in their homes that they pray to every day. -----signature----- As evil as you can get! I'm "Berzerk" about films! The once and future king Otto has lived many lives on TheForce.net
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
yodasbum Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 3/18/05 4:03am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	Origional vision for Jedi was not Ewoks!!! GL has said this. I remeber a quote from GL at the design stage "dare we go cute" and "I wanted my daughter to have an Ewok toy". GL has his reasons for making the flms he did but at teh end of the day the origional vision is not on screen. Jedi , according to some and I think this is very plausible, is the condencing of four movies into one. Leia wasn't supposed to be Luke's sister!!! GL had a vision we really haven't seen the true vision of it and I guess we never will.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
LordBlack Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 3/18/05 4:07am Subject: RE: Why Is ROTJ Considered A Bad Movie?
	ROTJ is the best of all the movies. Prob second after ROTS mind. -----signature----- LONG LIVE THE IMPERIUM OF MAN In love with Padme "War is a catalyst which accelerates many important developments and nourish's national and personal ingenuity" - M.A.F
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History

« 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 » - Previous | Next | Reload