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Topic:
Luke's Jedi training?
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FirstStarWars
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
5/6/05 1:30pm
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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How do we know what counts as days/weeks or month? A day on Dagobah (sp) could be equal to just a few hours on Earth. Compaired to Bespin, a week could pass on Dag with only one day passing on bespin. Also how would time count for the Falcon to travel to Bespin? In Earth time it could take 24 hours but if your Dag, that could place Luke doing his traning for a week.
When it coems to Time and any Space movie, its hard to talk about.
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Absydian
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
5/6/05 1:40pm
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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First Ill just reiterate the whole spoiler thing and come back in two weeks to argue about lukes training to be a Jedi.
Also about Vader being on bespin waiting as opposed to chasing after them.
He did the smart thing. Laid a trap. Obviously didn't have competent enough staff to catch him by chasing so the trap was a better plan.
Bespin was still quite a distance away as Han mentions. It would be like driving cross country on nothing but sideroads.
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
5/7/05 9:00am
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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When Yoda taught Luke the look into the future trick and saw that his friends were in danger, Han and Leia hadn't even reached Bespin yet ( haven't seen ESB in a while),I think. Since he had a working hyperdrive , he got there a day or so after they did. I guess that will seem to throw off the time scale for most people.
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deckyrd
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
5/7/05 2:14pm
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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Where in the world is everybody getting the idea that Luke spent months on Dagobah? From the overall time-frame of the film it's a couple of weeks at best, with training starting at dawn and ending when Luke was simply too exhausted to continue for the day. Given that there's no indication of the crew on the falcon taking any kind of break/rest while evading the Empire, they made it to Bespin in a few days after escaping from Hoth and while they were doing all of that Luke was in heavy training.
If we look at the EU, then Luke trained himself as best he could in the time between ANH and ESB (notice how he was simply "in touch" with the force in ANH yet in ESB he's able to telekinetically call his 'saber to him in the Wampa cave?), then got the heavy, REAL training under Yoda.
I liken it to reading about the martial arts and practicing at home, then going to a dojo in Japan and studying non-stop with the true masters. You learn a hell of a lot faster (and better) in the latter example than just sitting at home with a book or video, which is basically what happened with Luke.
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WLDB
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
5/7/05 2:41pm
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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Here is a a question.
Did anyone know Luke was heading to Dagobah? Even R2 seemed to have been kept out of the loop about it til Luke told him.
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deckyrd
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
5/7/05 4:09pm
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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If memory serves, it's in the novels that he tells Han and Leia he's got some important business to attend to and he'll meet up with them later. They try to press him for more info, but he stresses the importance of it and they back off and just trust him that he'll rendesvous with them later.
R2 doesn't even know either, but even if he did it would be worthless because Dagobah isn't in the standard astrogation charts (again, EU knowledge here). Luke got there using a Jedi power called "instinctive astrogation" which allows the Jedi to find a place by concentrating on it and programming in the coordinates accordingly. Again, I could be wrong here, but I seem to remember something being mentioned in the EU about Yoda erasing Dagobah from the Jedi archives so that he could hide there... Anybody else know anything about this?
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Alixen
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
5/8/05 11:46am
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
- Date Edited:
5/8/05 11:47am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Alixen
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Presumably Anakin is actually more powerful, and if he hadnt become Vader he would have continued to Grow.
If you dont mind Minor Spoilers highlight and read the following blacked out text.
One is about Ep3 Anakin's power and the other his power when he becomes suited.
In the RotS Novel, from the mouth of Nick Gillard, and once i think from Lucas, Anakin as the Chosen One has the most potential of any Force User Ever.
In Ep3 he has surpassed any Jedi, is 120% of Palpatine's power, 20% more powerful basicly, and he is still getting Better and more Powerful.
He is the most dangerous person in the Galaxy.
Get him to Vader's age without the suit and Yikes.
He loses to Obi-Wan for a few reasons...
A: Obi-Wan knows him better than he knows himself.
B: While he has become the better fighter, Obi-Wan has experiance and knolage on his side.
Vader when he gets put in the suit he is missing limbs, therefor his Midi-clorians have reduced in number with his body mass.
He is cut down to 80% of Palpatine's power and will be stuck there til he dies.
Plus Vader was conflicted when Luke beat him, i think it was more him not actually wanting to kill Luke.
But this isnt to downplay Luke's power, given enough training i think he is a Yoda or Mace Windu.
Just not on the level of the Chosen One.
If it was passed down through family it'd be the Chosen Family, not the Chosen 'ONE'.
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Minela
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
5/9/05 10:41am
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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Thank you so much, this helpd a lot.
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Absydian
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
5/9/05 11:09am
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
- Date Edited:
5/9/05 11:10am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Absydian
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OK i thought about how to explain lukes training without using any episode III reference and think i've got it figured out.
Firstly in ROTJ Luke says he's come back to complete his training and Yoda tells him "Already know that what you need" Then the whole confront vadar thing to become a full fledged Jedi Knight.
Now rewind to episode I opening scene with obi wan and Qui gon.
Keep in mind Qui Gon and the council had different interpretations of the Force, evident in Episode I.
Qui Gon tells "scolds" Obi Wan about focusing to much on the future.
"But master yoda said we should be mindful of the future"
"Not at the expense of the moment."
Now jump to ESB when yoda is "interviewing" Luke.
Paraphrasing but yoda brings up how luke is always looking to the future and not keeping his mind on the here and now.
So it seems Yoda took more of a Qui Gon approach to training luke than the traditional age old Jedi Methods.
interesting!
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Minela
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
5/9/05 11:18am
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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Absydian,
very interesting, I never thought of that. Is that why Obi was ready for the trials so early? I mean, what was he in TPM, 20? But I guess Obi was a better student than Anakin.
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Absydian
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
5/9/05 11:28am
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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Obi Wan isnt the best Jedi ever for no reason. 
He had a great mentor who knew what the real deal was.
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Minela
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
5/16/05 7:47pm
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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^^Do you think Obi learned his lesson, and was not so hard on Luke, because he kind of alienated Anakin?
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Silent_Ron
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
5/16/05 8:01pm
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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"Luke was trained for several weeks, possibly a few months on Dagobah, you just don't see it the entire time, as then that'd be a helluva long movie."
So wait, you're saying that the events on Dagobah could have gone on for Weeks or possibly Months? Hmmmm.....
So that means he must have had a Flux Capacitor inside his X-Wing and jumped OVER those weeks and months to fly back to Cloud City to attempt to save Han, Leah, Chewie, and the gang....., right?
I mean, just how long do you think the Falcon was stuck in that Asteroid? How long did it take to torture Han? I'm guessing it was more like a week that Luke got spend with Yoda. If you compare the timelines between Luke's excursion to Dagobah, and the Falcon going from one mess to another, then it adds up to be about a week.
All kidding aside.., there's NO way that Luke could have gotten enough training to even hold a candle to Vader. Yeah, its a movie..., I know.., but since we're discussing the matter, I don't think Luke was anywhere close to being CLOSE to being ready to confront Vader.
Prodigy or not, Luke was WAY behind the eight ball when he took on Vader in ESB. His accelerated training for ROTJ is yet another movie mystery, but I think everyone knows that the good guys always win.
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MothCarbo
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
5/17/05 11:20am
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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My thought on the time line is this. And others have pointed this out. The Falcon has no hyperdrive, no capacity for light speed. They began their chase in the Hoth System and when they attach themselves on to the Star Destroyer Avenger we learn that they are in the Noadd (phonetic spelling) System. Now most systems are separated by many, many light-years, by our abilities it would take many, many human lifetimes to reach our closest neighboring star system. If Noadd is the closest to Hoth it would still be many light-years. I imagine that though the Falcon can not go to light speed it can still get to another system much quicker than any ship we have the capacity to build, but not in a the few hours that light speed would take. Also, they were being chased but many Star Destroyers and TIE fighters, thus they were not flying in a straight line. My guess is that the quickest it would have taken them to get to Noadd would have been a week and probably 2 months at the longest. So "realistically" I'd say about a month from Hoth to Noadd. Considering this I would also say that it takes them a week on the short side and 2 months on the long side to get to Bespin. So shortest estimate for Luke's time on Dagobah would be 2 weeks and longest would be 4 or more months.
I have often wondered what Vader was doing to Han Solo in that torture room if he was not asking questions. Recently I have hit on the idea that he was using the torture as a method to attract Luke's force sensitive attention to his friends in pain. Similar to Anakin's attention going to his mother when she was kidnapped by the Tuskin Raiders. I bring this up to illustrate how a ship with a hyperdrive can make a trip that would have been months on end happen in a matter of hours. Han was tortured, and shortly thereafter frozen. Luke saw the vision either right as Han was being tortured or right before, it all depends on how seeing with the force works, which I profess no ability or capacity to understand.
Aside from time, I think that Obi-Wan and Yoda were intently focused on Luke destroying the Sith. Thus as others have said the training would have been very different from the style of training of that of a PT Jedi. It would have been more on combat but also more intimately focused on knowledge of the Dark side, meaning that it exists, how it corrupts and how to avoid the spell of the Emperor. Yoda would have focused on this knowing full well that the only way that the Dark Side, the Sith, would be destroyed was through Luke eventually facing the Emperor. 4 months of intense training with Yoda would make anyone into a skilled warrior, much more so a force user and even more so one powerful in the force as Luke.
Luke’s time between ESB and ROTJ marks what would be like the latter years of Anakin's training, out and about the universe, gaining experience with the situations that arise. And his duel with the Emperor and Vader as his trials, much like how Anakin's training and trails were unorthodox, so too were Luke's. Also, just because one holds a rank does not mean one is fully accomplished and knowledgeable in that role. Luke continues to advance and grow even after ROTJ. I would say that eventually he would have naturally learned all that a Jedi of the PT had been taught, except that Luke's learning would have been directly from the Force itself and not though a medium such as a master. This is crucial to the new era that Luke lives in, for over the years I feel the Old Jedi system was becoming tainted by the medium, by the masters and their own understanding of the force as opposed to allowing the force to guide them fully. But now I am getting off subject.
Luke's training was more than a few days as it appears in the movie, and it was more concentrated on combat and avoidance of the Dark side than any Jedi of the PT. Thus Luke was able to withstand the Emperor’s solicitations and redeem his father. And with the universe free of the Sith he was able to eventually realize himself truly as a Jedi though the experiences after ROTJ. He grew into a Jedi even after he was called a Jedi.
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Ididitall4thewookie
Registered:
Jun '04
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Date Posted:
5/17/05 2:59pm
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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Luke spent a few months on Dagobah training. The Falcon had no hyperdrive and was traveling between systems. This takes a long time, even considering that the GFFA had much more efficient and faster sublight engines.
When Luke sees Han and Leia while training, he saw the future, Yoda pretty much tells him that. So when Luke left, The Falcon had not quite made it yet. Then, Luke makes it so quick because he had a working hyperdrive, which would be like a Concorde realistically beating a bicycle to NY if the COncorde started in LA and the bike started in Newark.
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