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Topic:
Luke's Jedi training?
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Silent_Ron
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
5/17/05 3:06pm
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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Well spoken sir.
One question remains. Why does Yoda flirt with the idea of NOT training Luke, as Obi Wan practically begs him to continue the training. Is this to test Luke's enthusiasm and sheer will to learn the ways of the Jedi..., or was the old Master just a little too old for "quick tempers"?
Probably just a trivial question, but one I have wondered about since learning that Yoda and Obi Wan banked everything on Luke being the savior.
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Minela
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
5/17/05 4:55pm
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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Silient_Ron, I think that Yoda gave up the ide of saving the universe somewhat, since he was near his death, and he was concerned that Luke would also turn to the Dark Side. Since, "he has to much of his father in him". So I believe, he was looking at the cons and pros of teaching Luke in his head and spoke outloud what he thought. He didn't know if training Luke would turn out to be good or a disaster. Luke is very much like Anakin (young, wants to prove himself, inexperianced, wants to protect the people he loves etc) but Luke saw what the Dark Side did to his father so he had the advantage of learning from his fathers mistakes. Anakin didn't have that.
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jaimestarr
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
5/17/05 5:31pm
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
- Date Edited:
5/17/05 5:33pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
jaimestarr
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"All kidding aside.., there's NO way that Luke could have gotten enough training to even hold a candle to Vader. Yeah, its a movie..., I know.., but since we're discussing the matter, I don't think Luke was anywhere close to being CLOSE to being ready to confront Vader.
Prodigy or not, Luke was WAY behind the eight ball when he took on Vader in ESB. His accelerated training for ROTJ is yet another movie mystery, but I think everyone knows that the good guys always win. "
Remember Karate Kid?? Miyagi said it wasn't the quantity of what he was taught but the quality. Same with Luke.
Luke wasn't fully trained in ESB when he rushed to face Vader. However, facing Vader completed his training (Yoda says as much in ROTJ). So this leads one to believe that perhaps Luke had all the physical stuff down and just needed more mental and spiritual guidance (plus maybe the truth about his heritage.)
In any event, Vader wasn't going full out with Luke--he was toying with him mostly (Luke got in a few good shots).
Also, there are 2 reasons Luke looks so badass in ROTJ.
1. Jabba's crew is pretty easy to dispatch when compared to Vader. Luke stomped them easily and he looked more advanced in comparison to his battle with Vader.
2. Getting a limbs taken off, finding out that Vader is your dad etc., gives one perspective and maturity that Luke needed to go up against Vader again in ROTJ. I mean, all he had to do was not go to the dark side right??
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JSnyder
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
5/17/05 6:33pm
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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>>Luke spent a few months on Dagobah training.<<
Assuming the Falcon did take a long while to reach Bespin, they were using what I really believe is sublight + .5 "She'll make .5 PAST lightspeed" - this is NOT hyperspace travel.
(Hyperspace modifier crap and different performance levels of Hyperdrives has gummed things up terribly)
Einstein's theory has relevance here - sublight (+.5) is still NOT the same as Hyperspace which is what Luke uses to get to Bespin.
I answered the time differential problem there except for this: there was only one real destination possible. Boba knew this, so why did the Empire arrive just before the Falcon if it took months? THIS part makes no sense.
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a. block
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
5/17/05 10:24pm
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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I only read the first few posts, so don't know if anyone has said what I'm about to say:
Luke could've learned a few things from Obi-Wan in ANH and then kept training by himself and through that training discovered more things.
And then he learned whatever else from Yoda in ESB and afterwards training.
So, he might have only had a few moments of getting taught from the best and then did his own thing. That could work pretty good.
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Darth Sin
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
5/18/05 5:48am
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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It is pretty evident to me that Luke had been doing some of his own training between ANH and ESB, basically experimenting with the knowledge that he had gotten from Obi-Wan.
One thing that stands out to me that this was the case, is when after the Wampa creature had placed him upside down in the ice cave, Luke was able to concentrate and summon his saber to release himself. Obi-Wan did not teach him this as far as we know.
One other thing I think of when I think of Luke training himself, and learning on his own, is that I think of Assaj Ventress from the Cartoon Network series. Though a dark side user, it was apparent she had learned the ways of the dark side on her own, and become quite skilled.
In like manner, this is what I think happened with Luke between ANH and ESB, and then I think he furthered his skills even more after training with Yoda between ESB and ROTJ.
By the way, it is possible that though Obi-Wan did not appear to Luke between ANH and ESB, but we know he was with Luke, as he was with Luke in the Battle of Yavin.
It is quite possible that Obi-Wan being one with the Force was able to guide Luke with his training, even without speaking to him.
Darth Sin! 
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"I see you becoming the greatest of all Jedi": Palpatine  Lamont: "Martial arts is the oldest form of self defense" Grady: "It ain't older than running" Yoda: The Force is used for knowledge and defense, never for attack
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Minela
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
5/18/05 7:47am
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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Darth Sin, how long do you think it took Luke and the others to save Han. Because from ESB to RotJ it seems Luke advanced a lot, he became more serious and his skils were much better. How long did it take them to save Han, few months, a year?
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RurouniKJS
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
5/18/05 9:21am
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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Re: Empire's arrival just ahead of the Falcon.
I figure Boba shadowed Han almost all the way there, until he was absolutely certain of his destination (like when the Falcon closed in toward Bespin). Then he called Vader. Solo's a slippery one; you never know when he'll pull a fast one like hiding on a Star Destroyer's hull or in garbage -- or fix his hyperdrive in mid-flight. A sublight trip is a long time, enough for anything to happen.
Me, I'm wondering how Princess Leia kept that slobbering smuggler off of her royal personage for the whole trip. I'm assuming, of course, that she did.
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Minela
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
5/18/05 9:41am
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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Oh, please. Leia did it with Han on the Falkon, that is why she was so attached to him. I mean, if we want to believe they were traveling for a few weeks or even months, it wouldn't have stayed with just one kiss. I mean, the Falkon is not that big, so they were sleeping in close contact to each other etc. Lando sensed that that is why he was all over Leia, to mock his old buddy. I don't know, I'm just speculating.
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Master_Blaster
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
5/18/05 10:00am
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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During the final scenes of ANH when Luke is about to destroy the Death Star, Obi-wan speaks to him and then after Luke escapes the ice cave in ESB Obi-wan appears to Luke and Luke doesn't look too suprised to me. So it's my guess that between ANH and ESB Luke has been getting training from Obi-wan which would explain his slight progression.
Then I think Obi-wan realized that he can only do so much in his currect form so he needs yoda to complete his training in a way that Obi-wan can't.
As far as his progression between ESB and ROTJ I haven't figured that out yet. I'm sure the mind portion of the force can be learned with direction from Yoda or Obi-wan in thier "spirit" form and the lightsaber technique is something that Luke could practice and learn from those skilled in saber techniques but not the force.
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ninnaskywalker
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
5/18/05 12:34pm
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
- Date Edited:
5/18/05 12:39pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
ninnaskywalker
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Sorry - I haven't read all the answers to this but I just wanted to add some info I read in an interview with George Lucas back when ROTJ first came out. George Lucas said that he didn't want to go back to Dagobah or have Yoda in RotJ at all! He said that the fans would ASSUME that Luke went back between ESB and RotJ for more training. Apparently, the rescue of Han from Jabba took many months, maybe close to a year, so he got as much training as he needed at the time. Then George decided that fans would be upset not to see Yoda again so he filmed a brief return visit but he didn't want to do more training scenes so we were to fill that part in by ourselves. Hope that helps!
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OldMcJedifarmer
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
5/18/05 4:01pm
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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thats was greatt ninna, i always knew something very wrong with the scene in rotj, What you said filled in a lot of parts that was missing, thanks
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ninnaskywalker
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
5/19/05 8:42am
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
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Glad it helped! I still think GL should have at least alluded to that return trip in the dialogue so we'd understand that better. Something like Han saying "How long was I frozen anyway?" or Luke commenting on his many trips to Dagodah - SOMETHING to let us know he went back for training would have been helpful! But it still makes you wonder why he went back and left AGAIN to save his friend who has been sitting around waiting for months when he thought he wasn't finished his training yet again. And why would he wait so long to ask Yoda if Darth Vader was really his father? LOL! Oh, well, I guess when you suddenly add a scene you didn't intend to, it just doesn't fit as well as you'd like it to! ;-)
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Minela
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
5/20/05 1:41pm
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
- Date Edited:
5/20/05 1:42pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Minela
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Thanks Nina, you are right, so much doesn't make sense. If Lukas would have only added a line of explanation in the movie it would have answerd lots of questions. I was only wondering because after saving Han, Luke went back because of his promise to Yoda, if he went back between ESB and ROTJ why would he say that???
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DARTH-SHREDDER
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
5/20/05 3:12pm
Subject:
RE: Luke's Jedi training ???????
- Date Edited:
5/20/05 3:12pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DARTH-SHREDDER
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"Well I don't know if The Force has a cumulative effect with each generation, but Luke in ROTJ is more powerful than Anakin."
oh god no. Luke wins in ROTJ because Darth Vader doesn't want to kill Luke and is conflicted inside. Luke is definately not more powerful than Vader in ROTJ.
"Since Vader was part machine, he had peaked in his power in ESB. He couldn't advance anymore due to that limitation."
WWWWHHHHHHHAAAAAAA?
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The bible is a pathway to many beliefs some consider to be ignorant. Only a sith deals in absolutes....or a conservative. I have a big problem with religion and rednecks.  Proud tree hugger. \m/ Rock on/ 
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