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Topic:
Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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Leias_love_slave
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
9/7/06 10:31pm
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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I don't understand why people have a problem with the idea of one spirit being assisted by two other spirits at the moment of death?
Is it somehow...far-fetched?
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"I was Leia's slave-boy." *blushes*
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jedi_john_33
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
9/7/06 10:35pm
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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Yoda and Kenobi didn't do anything for Vader. It was all Luke. If anything, Yoda and Kenobi were trying to keep Luke away from Vader. They didn't want Luke to discover the truth. After he had, they were trying to save Luke from the dark side, not redeem Vader. The figured him for lost.
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LEROOOOOOOOOOOOY JENKINS! I miss Mortimer_Snerd  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8feelxiFlw
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Leias_love_slave
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
9/7/06 10:39pm
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
- Date Edited:
9/7/06 10:39pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Leias_love_slave
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Okay, so Luke helps Anakin redeem himself...
...then he dies and the two spirits help the one spirit in the afterlife.
Again, what's the problem?
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"I was Leia's slave-boy." *blushes*
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jedi_john_33
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
9/7/06 10:41pm
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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There's no help for Vader in the afterlife. Vader doesn't exist in the afterlife. It's Anakin. Anakin joins his "family" so to speak. Vader died when Palpatine was picked up and thrown. Anakin emerged from the darkness that clouded his spirit.
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LEROOOOOOOOOOOOY JENKINS! I miss Mortimer_Snerd http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8feelxiFlw
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Leias_love_slave
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
9/7/06 10:45pm
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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Yes...
...then ANAKIN dies...
...and one spirit is assisted by two spirits in the afterlife.
AGAIN, WHAT'S THE PROBLEM?
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"I was Leia's slave-boy." *blushes*
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NeoBaggins
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
9/7/06 11:42pm
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
- Date Edited:
9/7/06 11:43pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
NeoBaggins
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I was joking with the broken heart stuff. Man, that was funny. It's weird because, my outreagous explanation was corrected by what could also be deemed absurd. The whole Obi and Yoda learning the death trick and teaching Anakin deal is still sketchy. The young ghost things is still murkey. But we can all relax come sept12 when the dvds come out. But until then.....
Yoda: "Flentch, why do you? Crushed, you cannot be."
Obi: "Old habbits die hard, master Yoda. I've been sitting on rocks and interacting with the solid world. I can't help it. But I'm not the only one."
Yoda: "Talkin about what you, Obi Wan?"
Obi: "Look how slow your running. And you don't need your cane here. Force-ghost run so we can get to that hangar!!"
Obi: "Okay, there they are. I'll start the ritual. Shimshamala.."
Yoda: "Idiot, wait you. Tender moment this is. More breaths he has left. Speak to his Son he must. A heart have a, Obi."
Obi: "This is sadistic. It's like he's drowning and were allowing him to suffer. Let's make the transformation."
Yoda: "Wait we will, Dr. Benkavorkian. Pull the plug we must not."
Obi: "Okay, he just told Luke to tell his sister he was right. I sense his next words will be his last. Lets move in for the force-ghosting."
Yoda: "Wait. Right about what, hear I must. Soap opera like this is."
Obi: "Okay, he's repeating himself and dying. Ask him what he was talking about later...OOOOPPS!!"
Yoda: "Trip over Lukes feat did you just?
Obi: "I told you I'm half way in. That steal beam could have knocked me unconcious back there."
Yoda: "NOW, IT DO, NOW, OBI WAN!!!"
Obi: "Through it you can run he says. Overracting I am.."
Yoda: "The trick, we must do, NOW!"
Obi: "I almost died twice thanks to you.. huh? Oh, were ready.."
*POOF*
Ewok Punch for all. Yo yuck.
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You hear that? That's the sound of inevitability.
You hear that? That's the A train.
You hear that? That's the sound of a thousand terrible things heading this way.
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Malikail
Registered:
Jun '04
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Date Posted:
9/8/06 1:04am
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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Leias_love_slave posted:
Yes...
...then ANAKIN dies...
...and one spirit is assisted by two spirits in the afterlife.
AGAIN, WHAT'S THE PROBLEM?
i can handle far fetched, the problem is this is poorly writen, not supported in story and seemes very contrived.
it comes off as an attempt to bring a happy ending to a story and it worked till the PT and the notion that in order to retain your appearance/identity it requires training.
ooops Anakin has no training, oh well lets contrive that kenobi and yoda save him.....and turn him young! then we can tie it to the PT and we can put Hayden's face in the film, that will appeal to teen age girls. this is money!
of course Lucas mumbles some nonsense about his 'original vision' and his sychophants lap it up like kittens at a bowl of milk.
you see there is a small problem when you set the rules then break them.
even in science fiction there is a set of established rules, usually established by the author, when they are broken it hurts the story.
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how much greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope? - G'Kar
We wander but in the end there is always a certain peace in being what one is, in being that completely. The condemned man has that joy
Lucas and SuperShadow deserve each other
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Leias_love_slave
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
9/8/06 10:34am
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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Malikail, did you ever see that Superman movie where Superman takes Lois Lane flying?
When did Lois Lane take flying lessons?
Now, why would Anakin need lessons before he can appear to Luke at the end of ROTJ?
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"I was Leia's slave-boy." *blushes*
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MASTER_DOODOO
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
9/8/06 8:37pm
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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Vader dies because he's fulfilled his destiny.
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Malikail
Registered:
Jun '04
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Date Posted:
9/9/06 9:30am
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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Leias_love_slave posted:
Malikail, did you ever see that Superman movie where Superman takes Lois Lane flying?
When did Lois Lane take flying lessons?
Now, why would Anakin need lessons before he can appear to Luke at the end of ROTJ?
in the 83 release i agree with this 100%.
my problem is how the PT gave us the implied notion that QG had to teach yoda and kenobi to do this, without such training QG was a disembodied voice.
it seems to me that in light of the PT we definately shouldn't see a young anakin, actually there is no logic to a young anakin in the first place, at best without training he should be a disembodied voice.
i really think lucas just muddied the waters where force ghosts were concerned, something that seemed strait forward is no longer simple and he harmed his story in the process.
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how much greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope? - G'Kar
We wander but in the end there is always a certain peace in being what one is, in being that completely. The condemned man has that joy
Lucas and SuperShadow deserve each other
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Leias_love_slave
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
9/9/06 10:09am
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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Malikail, I don't want to give you the impression that I'm making a case for using Hayden as Anakin's ghost. I definitely prefer the version with Shaw.
I just don't have a problem with the idea that once Obi Wan and Yoda know how to show themselves to Luke, they can influence Anakin's ability to appear to Luke as well.
Since the first time I saw the film, I thought it was significant that Obi Wan and Yoda appear first...followed by Anakin.
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"I was Leia's slave-boy." *blushes*
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DarthButt
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
9/9/06 10:13am
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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Leias_love_slave posted:
Since the first time I saw the film, I thought it was significant that Obi Wan and Yoda appear first...followed by Anakin.
I concur.
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Malikail
Registered:
Jun '04
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Date Posted:
9/9/06 10:35am
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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Leias_love_slave posted:
Malikail, I don't want to give you the impression that I'm making a case for using Hayden as Anakin's ghost. I definitely prefer the version with Shaw.
I just don't have a problem with the idea that once Obi Wan and Yoda know how to show themselves to Luke, they can influence Anakin's ability to appear to Luke as well.
Since the first time I saw the film, I thought it was significant that Obi Wan and Yoda appear first...followed by Anakin.
interesting, i never thought about that.
i always took that as dramatic effect and that was all, hmm, i still the force ghost thing is more confusing now than before the PT but you definately have a good point.
i know i'll be seeing something different the next time i watch this scene, thanks.
-----signature-----
how much greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope? - G'Kar
We wander but in the end there is always a certain peace in being what one is, in being that completely. The condemned man has that joy
Lucas and SuperShadow deserve each other
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
9/9/06 11:32am
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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QGJ was trained.
The problem with "discovering" how to come back as a Force ghost while "in the afterlife" is that any dead Jedi could do it. AND THEY DON'T!!!
It's not the afterlife of the religion model. It's more sci-fi.
It's a means of preserving your consciousness and identity beyond the death of the physical body.
Anakin was the Chosen One. After renouncing the DS he was receptive to the Force ghosts of Yoda and Obi-Wan.
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
9/9/06 11:41am
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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And as far as Hayden in ROTJ is concerned:
you would prefer an image of a middle-aged, unburnt Anakin dressed as though he remained a Jedi in good standing?
AN IMAGE THAT NEVER ACTUALLY EXISTED?????
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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