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Topic:
Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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Leias_love_slave
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
9/9/06 12:29pm
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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Arawn_Fenn posted:
QGJ was trained.
By who?
Arawn_Fenn posted:
The problem with "discovering" how to come back as a Force ghost while "in the afterlife" is that any dead Jedi could do it. AND THEY DON'T!!!
WHY WOULD THEY?
My point was that Anakin might not have to "learn" anything in order for him appear to Luke. It sounds like you're in agreement on that.
Arawn_Fenn posted:
It's a means of preserving your consciousness and identity beyond the death of the physical body.
Anakin was the Chosen One. After renouncing the DS he was receptive to the Force ghosts of Yoda and Obi-Wan.
I have no problem with that.
Arawn_Fenn posted:
And as far as Hayden in ROTJ is concerned:
you would prefer an image of a middle-aged, unburnt Anakin dressed as though he remained a Jedi in good standing?
AN IMAGE THAT NEVER ACTUALLY EXISTED?????
If I have to choose between Luke seeing the man his father would have been if he hadn't turned to the dark side...
...and the evil man who slaughtered the children in the Jedi temple...
...then YES, I prefer to see the ghost scene left the way it always was.
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
9/9/06 1:18pm
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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Leias_love_slave posted:
[quote=Arawn_Fenn]QGJ was trained.
By who?
By a Shaman of the Whills. Next question! 
Arawn_Fenn posted:
The problem with "discovering" how to come back as a Force ghost while "in the afterlife" is that any dead Jedi could do it. AND THEY DON'T!!!
WHY WOULD THEY?
Oh, I don't know... maybe to warn the Jedi of their imminent destruction? So that the Emperor could be overthrown without 23 years of Empire and the destruction of Alderaan having to take place? Little things like that?
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Malikail
Registered:
Jun '04
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Date Posted:
9/9/06 3:54pm
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
- Date Edited:
9/9/06 3:57pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Malikail
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Arawn_Fenn posted:
And as far as Hayden in ROTJ is concerned:
you would prefer an image of a middle-aged, unburnt Anakin dressed as though he remained a Jedi in good standing?
AN IMAGE THAT NEVER ACTUALLY EXISTED?????
yes i would because it's a reflection of the spirit of the man he died as.
i would prefer the reflection be a man in his late 40s early 50s to the image of a wet behind the ears child who was so foolish as to sell his soul to the devil.
i would prefer the image of the spirit that had walked through darkness and been redeemed by his son rather than the image of a boy who is younger than luke, has not known the horrors of the dark side and not come back from that.
yes every time in every context i prefer the aged Shaw ghost to what we have now.
EDIT:
QG was not trained by a shaman of the whills as far as i know of it, he had studied their writings and trained himself to get to the point where he could speak from beyond. The way i understand it it was after his death that he understood what he was studying well enough to train yoda and kenobi, this is why he couldn't reappear to them he hadn't learned it to that point when he died.
if i am wrong about this please correct me and list sources, it is all EU and i don't know that much about the EU
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how much greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope? - G'Kar
We wander but in the end there is always a certain peace in being what one is, in being that completely. The condemned man has that joy
Lucas and SuperShadow deserve each other
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NeoBaggins
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
9/12/06 10:21pm
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
- Date Edited:
9/12/06 10:23pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
NeoBaggins
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I'm sure the definitely definitive I'm-really-done-now megaplex murder mix platinum edition six dvd ultra box set will have a new ending- One where Obi Wan and Yoda appear, then Haydens ghost followed by Guiness and Yoda morphing into Ewan McGregor and the Nerf Football Yoda from EpisodeI. Theeeennn, Qui Gons ghost appearse followed by Ki Adi Mundi and, oh yeah... Padme. The original yo yuck Ewok song will be remixed by Puff daddy who will fuse the yo yuck version of the original and the Kenny G version of the altered films TOGETHER. And to make us spew tears from our eye sockets, in a touching moment directed by Spielberg, Luke will be seen walking away with several Youngling Jedi ghost and bording E.T.s spaceship.
This is not official as of yet.
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Jinn-N-Tonic
Registered:
Jul '06
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Date Posted:
9/12/06 11:42pm
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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It doesn't make sense to me that Anakin/Vader died because Luke removed his helmet.
How long did Anakin/Vader survive without any life support armor and/or breath mask from the time that Obi Wan left him to die on Mustaphaar until the time Sidious brought him to Coruscant?
It had to be atleast a few hours I estimate.
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Lord_Pilaf
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
9/14/06 3:47am
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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He took a really, really, really hard dose of lethal force lightning. Probably the highest output of power in the entire saga in a single force ability was raining down on him. That's enough to speed up the dying process for anyone, especially a man in a walking iron lung. Know what happens to your electronics when a lightning surge goes through your wiring? Same thing happened here.
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Malikail
Registered:
Jun '04
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Date Posted:
9/14/06 8:57am
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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NeoBaggins posted:
I'm sure the definitely definitive I'm-really-done-now megaplex murder mix platinum edition six dvd ultra box set will have a new ending- One where Obi Wan and Yoda appear, then Haydens ghost followed by Guiness and Yoda morphing into Ewan McGregor and the Nerf Football Yoda from EpisodeI. Theeeennn, Qui Gons ghost appearse followed by Ki Adi Mundi and, oh yeah... Padme. The original yo yuck Ewok song will be remixed by Puff daddy who will fuse the yo yuck version of the original and the Kenny G version of the altered films TOGETHER. And to make us spew tears from our eye sockets, in a touching moment directed by Spielberg, Luke will be seen walking away with several Youngling Jedi ghost and bording E.T.s spaceship.
This is not official as of yet.
are you sure that's not offical?
it seems very much to be in line with lucas' "original vision".
so much so that i have to ask, do you work for Lucas Films, or maybe just maybe are you GL himself?
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how much greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope? - G'Kar
We wander but in the end there is always a certain peace in being what one is, in being that completely. The condemned man has that joy
Lucas and SuperShadow deserve each other
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NeoBaggins
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
9/14/06 8:32pm
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
- Date Edited:
9/14/06 8:35pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
NeoBaggins
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LOL I've been called a lot of things and Lucas is an amusing first. I was watching Empire of Dreams last night and Ford on Lucas is hilarious.
Why Vader died by Neobaggins
As for Vader dying, I think it's one of those things where Lucas has something in the story, in the script, that has to happen but the mechanics of HOW and WHY it happens is secondary or further. Case and point; Padme. The story is that she dies, and in the scheme of the entire saga this is a big deal just as it is when Anakin dies. I think HOW just isn't as important to Lucas as the event itself. You can use your imagination coupled with the bits given but either death isn't spelled out. I say Vaders curcuit city was damaged by the electricity. He has a breathing mechanism that was damaged and his breathing was labored even with the mask on. He was going to die and nothing could stop that now. Why didnt Luke die who got a longer, more intense electro bath? Obviously the Emp can control the degree of lethalness of the bolts suggested by this line "NOW, young Skywalker, you will die." Vader got the death blow. Why didnt Vader die at the lava bank? Youthful and full of hate while making the transition into the darkside just might give you a reason to live a few minutes. I think he would have eventually died but was rescued in time.
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You hear that? That's the sound of inevitability.
You hear that? That's the A train.
You hear that? That's the sound of a thousand terrible things heading this way.
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Han-my-boogie
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
9/15/06 7:39am
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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My $0.02
Vader died because:
a) Palpatine's lightning was too much for his mechanical body.
b) He took his helmet off (sealed his doom)
c) Fulfilled his destiny - mission accomplished (eventually) as the chosen one
d) Could not live with the guilt and shame of his past acts.
e) Like Aragorn, he chose when to lay himself down. A selfless act.
Anakin became one with the force because he was a personification of the primieval life force itself. Anakin was not assisted by Obi-wan and yoda in the transformation, he was a by-product of the force and was just leaving his physical body. I do think that when Obi-wan disappeared on DS1 in ANH, he had a good, long hard think about what it means to become one with the force, and the real immortality.
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PMT99
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
9/16/06 7:41am
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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Leias_love_slave posted:
Arawn_Fenn posted:
And as far as Hayden in ROTJ is concerned:
you would prefer an image of a middle-aged, unburnt Anakin dressed as though he remained a Jedi in good standing?
AN IMAGE THAT NEVER ACTUALLY EXISTED?????
If I have to choose between Luke seeing the man his father would have been if he hadn't turned to the dark side...
...and the evil man who slaughtered the children in the Jedi temple...
...then YES, I prefer to see the ghost scene left the way it always was.
But the middle-aged Anakin has done far much worse than what Young Anakin has done and besides, it made no sense that the 1983 ghost would have hair, limbs, and healthy skin when he never looked like that since he died in a mutilated body. The Hayden version also symbolises the kind of man he would've been had he never turned to the Dark Side only it also shows us that he never would have been incinerated nor amputated had he remained a Jedi.
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Leias_love_slave
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
9/16/06 9:00am
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
- Date Edited:
9/16/06 9:33am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Leias_love_slave
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PMT99 posted:
...besides, it made no sense that the 1983 ghost would have hair, limbs, and healthy skin when he never looked like that since he died in a mutilated body.
So basically, you're saying that crippled people should become crippled spirits when they die. The alternative would make "no sense".
PMT99 posted:
The Hayden version also symbolises the kind of man he would've been had he never turned to the Dark Side only it also shows us that he never would have been incinerated nor amputated had he remained a Jedi.
Yes, but my original point (that you were responding to) is that Shaw looked like a kind spirit who had been healed of both his physical and emotional wounds.
'Spirit' Hayden still looks like the dark soul who walked into the council chamber where the children were hiding and ignited his lightsaber.
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_Sublime_Skywalker_
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
9/16/06 9:34am
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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I believe Hayden's attempting to smile proudly at his son.
Though Im a little bit two sided on the whole Christensen vs Shaw debate, I do believe Hayden fit better into it. I'm one of those star wars believers that think the two trilogies should remain seperate because really, if they intertwine with cameos in the movies it just makes it awkward. I believe its all one story, but the OT *is the original* and should not have stuff from the pt, made almost 30 years later, in it.
But I remember seeing ROTJ when I was five and thinking the spirit ghost of Anakin skywalker was actually Uncle Owen. Not that Sebestian looks like him, I just didn't know who else it could be cause Vader didn't look like that. Atleast this way if you've seen the PT you know its Anakin, instead of seeing vader without a helmet for two seconds and then seeing this random guy. Plus, Haydens just hot.
As for why he looks younger, he's a jedi once more and he returns to how he looked when he was last a jedi. With limbs, with hair, young, proud and finally at peace.
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'You don't know the Power of the Darkside!'-Darth Vader
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Leias_love_slave
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
9/16/06 9:37am
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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_Sublime_Skywalker_ posted:
I believe Hayden's attempting to smile proudly at his son.
Hayden isn't even acting in this footage. He's just being himself. His brooding appearance is part of the reason Lucas hired him.
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"I was Leia's slave-boy." *blushes*
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The_Four_Dot_Elipsis
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
9/16/06 6:16pm
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
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That needs to be re-done for the 2007 set. With Hayden, mind you, but the whole Hayden, not a wierd mish-mash of Hayden's head on Shaw's body. That's just freaky. And Anakin's proper costume.
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NeoBaggins
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
9/18/06 6:05pm
Subject:
RE: Just to clear this up, does anyone know why Vader dies?
- Date Edited:
9/18/06 6:08pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DarthButt
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Butt Edit: And how was that related to the topic?
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