Go-Mer-Tonic posted:

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Also, Yoda and Obi-Wan didn't "physically die" they became one with the Force at will.

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Go-Mer-Tonic posted:

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The only thing this contradicts is your assumption that Shaw was meant to represent Anakin at the time of Vader's death, fully healed of all his wounds. I don't agree with your assumption, so this makes perfect sense to me the way Lucas did it originally, and now with the Hayden replacement.

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Go-Mer-Tonic posted:

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Shaw was old, but back then, that might as well had been what Anakin looked like before the turn.

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Go-Mer-Tonic posted:

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For you guys to be right, Lucas would have to be insane to change him to Hayden now. If I'm right, Lucas's actions are consistent and rational.

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Go-Mer-Tonic posted:

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Young as in relation to Kenobi.

And I don't stand alone, obviously Lucas felt this way too.

Just because you and all your buddies thought wrong, doesn't make you right.

For you guys to be right, Lucas would have to be insane to change him to Hayden now. If I'm right, Lucas's actions are consistent and rational.

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Go-Mer-Tonic posted:

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Hayden appearing as the Force Ghost is further indication of Lucas' intention for Anakin's Force Ghost. You say it's unnecessary, but obviously Lucas (who's motives we are trying to determine) thinks it was a needed change. Obviously Anakin -did- die when he became Vader, because that's how his Force Ghost looks. When the mask came off, it was the image of what he had become as Vader, not Anakin when he decided to turn to the Dark Side. Also, Yoda and Obi-Wan didn't "physically die" they became one with the Force at will. They simply ceased to exist in a physical sense, their bodies never physically died (although Yoda was cutting things pretty close). If Lucas wanted Anakin's ghost to look like Vader under the mask, he wouldn't have given him all his limbs and a full head of hair. Even with Shaw as the Force Ghost, it's obviously meant to look like Anakin did -before- he became Vader.

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Go-Mer-Tonic posted:

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You have explained all the -assumptions- you made around what Lucas actually established and yes, Lucas has contradicted those assumptions.

Does that mean you were right and Lucas is insane?

Or does it mean you were wrong and Lucas is competent?

Now Guess which I believe.

Juan, Anakin all but died when he became Vader, so he was dormant the whole time he was in the suit. He came back to save Luke then Vader died.

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Go-Mer-Tonic posted:

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You have explained all the -assumptions- you made around what Lucas actually established and yes, Lucas has contradicted those assumptions.

Does that mean you were right and Lucas is insane?

Or does it mean you were wrong and Lucas is competent?

Now Guess which I believe.

Juan, Anakin all but died when he became Vader, so he was dormant the whole time he was in the suit. He came back to save Luke then Vader died.

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Go-Mer-Tonic posted:

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Does that mean you were right and Lucas is insane?

Or does it mean you were wrong and Lucas is competent?

Now Guess which I believe.

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Grand_Moff_Jawa posted:

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Go-Mer-Tonic posted:

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You have explained all the -assumptions- you made around what Lucas actually established and yes, Lucas has contradicted those assumptions.

Does that mean you were right and Lucas is insane?

Or does it mean you were wrong and Lucas is competent?

Now Guess which I believe.

Juan, Anakin all but died when he became Vader, so he was dormant the whole time he was in the suit. He came back to save Luke then Vader died.

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Assumptions? Do you think I'd really make a case for myself based only on assumptions? I am talking about things that are right in the movies themselves. If the movie says 1 + 1 = 2, then 1 + 1 = 2! There's no room for reinterpretation there. Your stance is 1 + 1 = 2, unless George says otherwise. That's nuts.

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