Author Topic: Official Thread: Hayden Christensen replacing Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's Force Ghost
haljordan33  79 posts
Registered: Sep '08
Date Posted: 4/17 1:31am Subject: Official Thread: Hayden Christensen replacing Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's Force Ghost
Arawn_Fenn posted:
Maybe it's the royal we.


this "person" claimed in another thread that SHAW causes a plot hole.

Well my young friend you are mistaken about a great many things. As with most all prequel lovers you ignore reality and twist and turn and spin the truth so that it fits into your little prequel loving world.

Now let's go to class and try to understand this.

The OT films came out first. They were the blueprints. They built the structure for the back story that would have and SHOULD have become the prequels.

there is NO WAY that the OT could cause a PLOT hole because the OT came out first. The foundation was layed with the OT. Lucas IGNORED this previous outline and foundation all together when he made the prequels and in doing so he caused PLOT HOLES. THEN he goes and tries to make changes to the OT so that these plot holes do not seem so obvious. But this fails.

I.E making all the stoirm troopers talk with the same voice, chaning boboa fetts voice, adding new lines to the vader/emperor conversation in episode 5, adding hayden as a force ghost. There are many more i could name but to do so would be pointless.

Plot holes were caused by one thing and one thing only. LUCAS's writing in the prequels. None of these plot holes had to happen.

Storm troopers should have been just that. troopers. soldiers for the empire. They should have had nothing to do with the CLONE WAR. Anakin should have never of been started as a CHILD. Everyone told lucas it was wrong. From speilberg to the man responsable for giving us the BRILLANT screenplay in episode 5 and raiders of the lost arc "LAWEREWNCE KASDAN". Having boba fett as a kid in these films serves no purpose NONE. Having chewbacca serves NO PURPOSE. NONE.

SHAW represents the ANAKIN SKYWALKER lucas alwways described in the 80s. a noble and great jedi and hero and great friend to ben kenobi. You see his old tired face and you know there is a history behind it. You know there are battle scars behind it. you see two OLD JEDI (anakin and obi-wan) and yoda at the end of return of the jedi all three together and you know there is a story to be told about these two old and wise jedi knights. Now you can look at that scene and see obi-wan the old wise jedi master and yoda the even older and wiser jedi master and then. DRUM ROLL please....the teen age brat who never did anything but cry and whine and disrespect his master.

Briallant change george. Arawn you can enjoy that garbage all you want.

 

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Grand_Moff_Jawa  4737 posts
Registered: May '01
20018_Jawa
Date Posted: 4/17 6:01am Subject: Official Thread: Hayden Christensen replacing Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's Force Ghost
haljordan33 posted:
Arawn_Fenn posted:
Maybe it's the royal we.


this "person" claimed in another thread that SHAW causes a plot hole.

Well my young friend you are mistaken about a great many things. As with most all prequel lovers you ignore reality and twist and turn and spin the truth so that it fits into your little prequel loving world.

Now let's go to class and try to understand this.

The OT films came out first. They were the blueprints. They built the structure for the back story that would have and SHOULD have become the prequels.

there is NO WAY that the OT could cause a PLOT hole because the OT came out first. The foundation was layed with the OT. Lucas IGNORED this previous outline and foundation all together when he made the prequels and in doing so he caused PLOT HOLES. THEN he goes and tries to make changes to the OT so that these plot holes do not seem so obvious. But this fails.

I.E making all the stoirm troopers talk with the same voice, chaning boboa fetts voice, adding new lines to the vader/emperor conversation in episode 5, adding hayden as a force ghost. There are many more i could name but to do so would be pointless.

Plot holes were caused by one thing and one thing only. LUCAS's writing in the prequels. None of these plot holes had to happen.

Storm troopers should have been just that. troopers. soldiers for the empire. They should have had nothing to do with the CLONE WAR. Anakin should have never of been started as a CHILD. Everyone told lucas it was wrong. From speilberg to the man responsable for giving us the BRILLANT screenplay in episode 5 and raiders of the lost arc "LAWEREWNCE KASDAN". Having boba fett as a kid in these films serves no purpose NONE. Having chewbacca serves NO PURPOSE. NONE.

SHAW represents the ANAKIN SKYWALKER lucas alwways described in the 80s. a noble and great jedi and hero and great friend to ben kenobi. You see his old tired face and you know there is a history behind it. You know there are battle scars behind it. you see two OLD JEDI (anakin and obi-wan) and yoda at the end of return of the jedi all three together and you know there is a story to be told about these two old and wise jedi knights. Now you can look at that scene and see obi-wan the old wise jedi master and yoda the even older and wiser jedi master and then. DRUM ROLL please....the teen age brat who never did anything but cry and whine and disrespect his master.

Briallant change george. Arawn you can enjoy that garbage all you want.







I couldn't agree more. The OT had everything you needed to make the PT work, if only you paid attention to it.

 

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Go-Mer-Tonic  19592 posts
Registered: Aug '99
8199_Han Solo
Date Posted: 4/17 8:33am Subject: Official Thread: Hayden Christensen replacing Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's Force Ghost
Grand_Moff_Jawa posted:
Go-Mer-Tonic posted:
If Lucas is trying to make a distinction between Anakin before he became Vader and Anakin after he came back in ROTJ, then it's important to use Hayden's image now that the prequels are in place. Otherwise one might come to the correct conclusion that the Force Ghost is supposed to be Anakin after he had turned back.
Fixed.
Most of the time when I see someone ignore something they don't want to be true, it's to preserve their "bliss" in your case, you do it to maintain your belief that Lucas did an 180° on you.

It's time to come to grips with the possibility your original assessment of the scene may not have been what Lucas was trying to get across, as evidenced by his clarification of the scene.

 

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"At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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Grand_Moff_Jawa  4737 posts
Registered: May '01
20018_Jawa
Date Posted: 4/17 9:19am Subject: Official Thread: Hayden Christensen replacing Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's Force Ghost
I said it before and I'll say it again. That's a two-way street. Show me some proof that the movie was wrong since 1983 and I will gladly change my thinking about it.

 

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Go-Mer-Tonic  19592 posts
Registered: Aug '99
8199_Han Solo
Date Posted: 4/17 9:45am Subject: Official Thread: Hayden Christensen replacing Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's Force Ghost
It's really up to you if you want to face the possibility you could be wrong about your assumptions or not.

Feel free to assume you know better than Lucas what he's trying to do if you have some reason to think that's possible.

 

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"...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas
"At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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Arawn_Fenn  10329 posts
Registered: Jul '04
46079_Darth Plagueis
Date Posted: 4/17 10:12am Subject: Official Thread: Hayden Christensen replacing Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's Force Ghost
T-R- posted:
Listen to Kenobi's description of Luke's father and his talk of Owen not agreeing with the idealistic crusade. NONE of that was depicted in the PT. Since Anakin was already a knight prior to his turn, it doesn't jive with Vader being a pupil of his until he turned to evil either.


All of that was depicted in the PT. And it was "before" he turned to evil, not "until" he turned to evil, but nice try. The fact remains that Shaw clashes with the timeline implied by ANH/TESB, while the PT does not.

 

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BarkingFrog  80 posts
Registered: Jan '09
7017_Bubo
Date Posted: 4/17 11:02am Subject: Official Thread: Hayden Christensen replacing Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's Force Ghost - Date Edited: 4/17 11:03am (1 edits total) Edited By: BarkingFrog
I really don't get how people can get so worked up over this. It's not as if they completely removed Sebastian Shaw from the film. He's still in the scene that could easily be considered the emotional climax of the saga.

For the final edit of the film, I think they should just get Hayden Christensen, make him look 20 years older, shoot new footage and put him in there. I don't see why anybody should really have a problem with it.

Anakin was never a 70 year old man.

 

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haljordan33  79 posts
Registered: Sep '08
Date Posted: 4/17 11:07am Subject: Official Thread: Hayden Christensen replacing Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's Force Ghost - Date Edited: 4/17 11:10am (2 edits total) Edited By: haljordan33
Arawn_Fenn posted:
T-R- posted:
Listen to Kenobi's description of Luke's father and his talk of Owen not agreeing with the idealistic crusade. NONE of that was depicted in the PT. Since Anakin was already a knight prior to his turn, it doesn't jive with Vader being a pupil of his until he turned to evil either.


All of that was depicted in the PT. And it was "before" he turned to evil, not "until" he turned to evil, but nice try. The fact remains that Shaw clashes with the timeline implied by ANH/TESB, while the PT does not.


Arawn,,,

"you're uncle didn't agree with your fathers ideas. He thought he should have STAYED HERE AND NOT GOTTEN INVOLVED"

"your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough BUT YOUR UNCLE WOULDN"T ALLOW IT. HE FEARED YOU MIGHT FOLLOW OLE OBI-WAN ON "SOME DAMN FOOL IDEALISTIC CRUSADE LIKE YOUR FATHER DUD"

All that was shown?

let us also add...

ben- "thats your uncle talking" (ben clearly knows owen fairly well from this comment"

Lukes just not a farmer. he has too mnuch of his father in him "THAT"S WHAT I AM AFRAID OF"

Leia remebering her REAL MOTHER. and not this force image garbage. She clearly is old enough to remeber he being a sad person who is kind and beautiful.

Also if you look at the 10th star wars annivaersary mag of starlog LUCAS SAYS luke and leia will be in episode3 at three and a half yrs old. the exact age where a child would have just fragmented memories of their mothers. hence leias short memory of her.


ben tells luke straight out 'YOU WERE BOTH HIDDEN FROM YOUR FATHER WHEN YOU WERE BORN"
this is another plot hole. watch revenge of the sith with the commentary turned on and LUCAS himself says obi-wan leaves the lava bank thinking that anakin is DEAD. DEAD. So how/why would they be hidden from someoine they believe to be dead?

I could keep going and going and going.

JUNK!

Did lucas even bother watching the original 3 before writing this garbage? I think not. He couldn't have because such plot holes either show sheer stupidity or flat out nopt caring.

 

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Arawn_Fenn  10329 posts
Registered: Jul '04
46079_Darth Plagueis
Date Posted: 4/17 11:22am Subject: Official Thread: Hayden Christensen replacing Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's Force Ghost - Date Edited: 4/17 11:23am (2 edits total) Edited By: Arawn_Fenn
haljordan33 posted:
All that was shown?


That's what I said.

haljordan33 posted:
watch revenge of the sith with the commentary turned on and LUCAS himself says obi-wan leaves the lava bank thinking that anakin is DEAD. DEAD.


He can see and hear that he's not dead as he's walking away! He thinks he's going to die.

haljordan33 posted:
So how/why would they be hidden from someoine they believe to be dead?


We weren't told anything about what he was thinking at the time of hiding the children, a different event entirely. You're overlooking something.

 

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Believe me, buddy, if I were you, I'd go right up there and ask her if she wants to ride on my rancor." - Han Solo
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haljordan33  79 posts
Registered: Sep '08
Date Posted: 4/17 11:51am Subject: Official Thread: Hayden Christensen replacing Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's Force Ghost
WRONG!

ben tells luke in return of the jedi.

"to protect you both you were hidden FROM YOUR FATHER WHEN YOU WERE BORN"

Lucas in the revenge of the sith commentary says "obi-wan belives anakin is dead as he walks away from the lave pit"

watch both scenes and you will see for yourself.

ooop! no way to spin this one big guy.

 

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Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon  7410 posts
Registered: Dec '00
17824_Kieran Halcyon
Date Posted: 4/17 12:14pm Subject: Official Thread: Hayden Christensen replacing Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's Force Ghost
In all fairness, that WAS the same speech in which Obi-Wan tried equivocating metaphorical truth with physical fact and told Luke that he HAD to kill Vader or else the Emperor had won.

I guess Obi-Wan's just pretty full of crap in RotJ...

 

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Go-Mer-Tonic  19592 posts
Registered: Aug '99
8199_Han Solo
Date Posted: 4/17 12:19pm Subject: Official Thread: Hayden Christensen replacing Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's Force Ghost
So Obi-Wan learned Vader survived and endeavored to keep the children hidden from him as well as the Emperor.

 

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"...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas
"At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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haljordan33  79 posts
Registered: Sep '08
Date Posted: 4/17 12:50pm Subject: Official Thread: Hayden Christensen replacing Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's Force Ghost
Go-Mer-Tonic posted:
So Obi-Wan learned Vader survived and endeavored to keep the children hidden from him as well as the Emperor.


he learned an hr or two after walking away from the lava pit that anakin had survivied? that is nothing more than something you are making up in your mind to try and make it make sense and not cause a plot hole.

any other time lucas's words are GOLD to you and not to be questioned. in the commentary he says flat out that as obi-wan leaves he belives that anakin is dead.

is lucas lying go-mer? it's a plot hole. clear and simple.

 

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Go-Mer-Tonic  19592 posts
Registered: Aug '99
8199_Han Solo
Date Posted: 4/17 12:55pm Subject: Official Thread: Hayden Christensen replacing Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's Force Ghost
Why would he have to find out in a couple of hours? As long as he found out Vader was alive in the time between then and ANH, then it would be perfectly natural for him to say he hid them from him.

I don't think it's a problem to question Lucas, it's just you might want to figure out the answers to some of your questions instead of just throwing your arms in the air and proclaiming it doesn't make sense.

Still if you want to just throw your arms up and declare it just doesn't make sense, you can do that too.

It's just people who understand it will tell you it makes sense.

 

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"...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas
"At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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T-R-  520 posts
Registered: Aug '03
6596_Luke Skywalker
Date Posted: 4/17 1:54pm Subject: Official Thread: Hayden Christensen replacing Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's Force Ghost
haljordan33 posted:
WRONG!

ben tells luke in return of the jedi.

"to protect you both you were hidden FROM YOUR FATHER WHEN YOU WERE BORN"

Lucas in the revenge of the sith commentary says "obi-wan belives anakin is dead as he walks away from the lave pit"

watch both scenes and you will see for yourself.

ooop! no way to spin this one big guy.

Everything hal points out is exactly what I was getting at. From the Anakin should have stayed here and not gotten involved, to Ben saying he hasn't gone by the name Obi-Wan since before Luke was born.

NONE of this was portrayed in the PT, regardless of how much you want it to be.

 

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