haljordan33 posted:see go-mer thats the difference between fans like me and fans like you. I love star wars enough to expect and demand quality and for this type of crap no to happen and when it does happen you are damn right I throw my arms up and want a reason why it happend. I don't sweeep it under the carpet like you doi and just dismiss it by making up fantasies in my head to try and make things make sense.
haljordan33 posted:that is nothing more than something you are making up in your mind to try and make it make sense and not cause a plot hole.
haljordan33 posted:when at the time they were born he belived anakin to be dead.
T-R- posted:From the Anakin should have stayed here and not gotten involved, to Ben saying he hasn't gone by the name Obi-Wan since before Luke was born. NONE of this was portrayed in the PT, regardless of how much you want it to be.
Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon posted:They're not plot holes so much as things that redefine OT Ben's character from a trustworthy mentor to a guy who is full of crap half the time he opens his mouth.
BarkingFrog posted:It's not as if they completely removed Sebastian Shaw from the film. He's still in the scene that could easily be considered the emotional climax of the saga. For the final edit of the film, I think they should just get Hayden Christensen, make him look 20 years older, shoot new footage and put him in there. I don't see why anybody should really have a problem with it. Anakin was never a 70 year old man.
Go-Mer-Tonic posted:All I'm trying to say is it's possible Lucas meant the ghost to be Anakin before he became Vader all along. If I can admit I may not be right about that, then surely you can admit I might be. So to run around acting like Lucas has now contradicted himself isn't exactly a proven stance. You think it's more likely Lucas intended the concept you assumed originally, I think it's more likely he remained consistent.
Jumpman posted:The changed doesn't go against anything. It changes an interpretation...nothing more. The switch to Hayden at the end of Return of the Jedi is nothing more than Lucas saying the Force gave Anakin a slight reprieve. This is who he was and how he will be remembered before his turn to the Dark Side.
Arawn_Fenn posted:I think you know I'm talking about permanent disappearance. Did Ben BAMF back in like Nightcrawler somewhere else in the Death Star?
Arawn_Fenn posted:Metaphorical does not mean the same thing as literal, or else you wouldn't need both words.
Jumpman posted:This change is all about future generations of Star Wars fans who get to see the Saga as a whole instead of how the majority of us have seen it since '77. It's a change for continuity's sake. That's one of two main reasons as to why Lucas' changed it in the first place...and for a forward thinking person like him, it makes perfect sense.
Jumpman posted:I didn't say future generations won't accept Shaw as Anakin. I mean, it's clear that plenty of time passes on between each episode. He's suppose to be older. But, future generations will feel more attachment to the visage of Hayden as Anakin because they have two full films with him as Anakin Skywalker (with the most important parts of his life) and maybe five mintues with Shaw as Anakin.
Nordom posted:Or perhaps this "joining the Force at will" means they do die and then vanish? But that sounds like they killed themselves, suicide.
Nordom posted:Lukes father is not dead so Vader never killed him.
Nordom posted:The good man that was Anakin never was destroyed, he was there all along under the Vader mask.
Arawn_Fenn posted:Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon posted:They're not plot holes so much as things that redefine OT Ben's character from a trustworthy mentor to a guy who is full of crap half the time he opens his mouth. Yes, we know Ben is TEH LIAR. But we're talking about things that aren't necessarily false.
Arawn_Fenn posted:Nordom posted:Lukes father is not dead so Vader never killed him. Still in denial of the concept of metaphor after all this time... Lucas pwns you.
Arawn_Fenn posted:Nordom posted:Or perhaps this "joining the Force at will" means they do die and then vanish? But that sounds like they killed themselves, suicide. Potato, potatto.
Arawn_Fenn posted:Nordom posted:The good man that was Anakin never was destroyed, he was there all along under the Vader mask. Tell that to Alderaan. Or Captain Antilles.
Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon posted:No, we're talking about things that weren't necessarily false until the PT showed them to be so.
Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon posted:"Hidden from your father when you were born" is clearly inaccurate, because when the children were born the good guys clearly believe Vader to be dead.
Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon posted:If anyone's confused about what metaphor means it's you.
Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon posted:"Vader killed Anakin" is a metaphor for what REALLY happened, which is that Anakin gave into the dark side and abandoned all the good things about his personality.
Grand_Moff_Jawa posted:How do you just shrug off such a valid point?
Grand_Moff_Jawa posted:He didn't die, metaphorically or otherwise.
Grand_Moff_Jawa posted:He's not talking about the death of the people on Alderaan or Captain Antilles, is he? He's referring to Anakin and only Anakin.